@Lynnski I actually don’t recall seeing or hearing the expression “opposite gender” for a while.
Speaking about language, my native language is one where all nouns are gendered. When I’m used to a fact that a chair is male, but a stool is female, it doesn’t seem as important what pronoun I’m called as long as I choose one and stick with it. Mark Twain famously made fun of German language in which “a young lady has no sex, while a turnip has”. So it seems to me we may be paying so much attention to gender language because of peculiarities of English. But I agree that society views on gender play a big part in this, and I suspect that men now have it worse. It’s OK for women to wear dresses or pants, wear makeup or not, stay home with kids or not, but only one choice of each pair is considered “normal” for men.
I do not even pretend to understand. I just read, listen, watch and intake the info. No one close to me has gone through this. The two kids I knew who who transitioned had very supportive parents. I marveled about that at the time, because I do not believe I would have been as understanding and helpful. Both of these young people, despite what appeared to be family support committed suicide. My kids who knew them said that they had had a whole host of issues, and the transgender, transitioning was just an attention catching issue because of the shock value to many. If anything, they feel, it distracted from those other more important, dangerous problems those kids had. But those are just two, though two too many to die—I wish they could have been helped.
I know that “LUG” (lesbian until graduation” was a common term when I was in college in the dark ages. Especially in all female colleges, but also at mine. None of them are identifying as gay now days. The one woman who is, was not LUG. A few gay guys did come out, but the numbers and percentages for my school are low, and because our class is small enough, most of us are accounted for. Of course, some can still be in the closet.
But no one transgender. Even from a school renown for sex change surgeries even back in the day.
I can only wish well to all who are dealing with this situation, this state of being, both parents, and the offspring, and all family members and those concerned and involved.
“It’s OK for women to wear dresses or pants, wear makeup or not, stay home with kids or not, but only one choice of each pair is considered “normal” for men.”
I think with younger generations, that is actually changing as well.
The other choices do exist for men, but are less common.
https://www.kilts-n-stuff.com/product-category/kilts/
https://www.menshealth.com/grooming/a25334947/best-makeup-for-men/
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/24/stay-at-home-moms-and-dads-account-for-about-one-in-five-u-s-parents/
Yes, a lot of things have changed in that what was not often the case is becoming more prevalent.
There always were stay at home fathers and fathers who were more active in their children’s lives than their mothers. Now it happens more, though still not even-steven. It’s not always a win-win situation. Sometimes just the least hurtful of a bunch of painful choices. Not that stay at home mom, with an uninvolved Dad was so great either.
I realize that Im a dinosaur in that I was a stay at home Mom despite the education and background to have worked and have contributed a lot more economically. I wouldn’t advise either gender to do as so did. Too risky.
But I see a lot more women so pained that they chose to be the major breadwinner after they have children. Their chosen spouse cannot make the economic impact that they, the women are, so these women simply do not have anywhere near the time they so achingly want with their children. I know many of them well, very personally. I would not have wanted to spent my life that way— I could not have, as a parent was desperately needed with some of my children’s experiences. I’m just glad things were as they were for our family.
This thread is surpriisngly full of stereotypes.
Stereotypes often ring true which is how they become stereotypes. But many outdated stereotypes are out there that cloud current events and circumstances.
I’ve found that many new waves push us backwards even as they also propel us forwards and it takes time sometimes to assess if the movement is positive or not.
During that time, there are casualties, while we sort these things out. They are rarely sorted out because no line of action is the best for everyone. I’ve often been on the losing part of overwhelmingly favorable statistics.
But stereotypes often get formed by people seeing visible small samples that may not necessarily be representative of the entire group whom they have no (known) ordinary contact with.
I work at a highly ranked children’s hospital, last year we opened a gender spectrum clinic, in one year it has grown to now seeing 60 patients. This clinic is run by a pediatric endocrinologist, a dedicated social worker and their support staff. I am proud to work at such a facility that is helping our youth live fulfilling and authentic lives.
I truly don’t understand why people have so many negative opinions about what other people do.
We routinely alter our body in other ways.
We circumcise our non consenting infants, put holes in our ears, have breast enhancement surgeries. We frequently correct ‘Gods’ plan and fix cleft palates, heart defects and various deformities, is it so far of a stretch to believe that sometimes our gender is wrong. Why can we fix other physical traits but not this one?
I have had 3 transgender friends in my life and sadly one did succumb to suicide. I truly don’t understand the vitriol by some people towards our neighbors, how they live their life has no impact on mine and doesn’t hurt anyone. We should have no say in other people’s personal medical and psychological decisions.
@sly123 I totally agree, but I think the discussion is really about whether gender change is more like cleft palate fixing (necessary, covered by insurance) or like breast enhancement (personal choice, in my opinion silly and sometimes dangerous, not covered by insurance).
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
No, actually the thread is about how to support transgender or transitioning or questioning youth. We are most certainly not going to get into a debate on comparing transitioning to infant circumcision (another hot button issue that invariably gets shut down because of debate).
Whether a minor child should transition is not the point of this thread, is not up for debate, and quite frankly, is none of anyone’s business if you are not the guardian.
Do you have something to offer to the discussion re: the apparent increase in the number of people struggling with gender identity?
I fear that some may be looking at death by one’s own actions as if this were some ultimate determininant of the value of one’s grievances or the reality of someone’s pain. Most of us have only the tiniest understanding of the reality of suicide for either the person who died or the bereaved who are left behind. People of all circumstances both consider and die by suicide. Lots of presumably cisgender people die by suicide, and we don’t use their deaths to justify the presumed absence of gender dysphoria or transition in their pain. Let’s not put the unknowable weight on suicidality on the experience of anyone—cis, trans, or unknown.
Sorry, I meant the society in general, not this thread.
@Midwest67
No I don’t have any hard facts on why we are seeing an increase in transgender visibility, I only have opinions.
Other cultures have accepted the concept of a third gender for centuries so I don’t believe being transgender is a new phenomenon. With the internet, social media, more medical understanding and more of society not settling for typical gender roles I just feel people are more able to seek support and help.
@Lynnski said:
I’m actually not sure if I have understood your meaning here. However, a cursory review of the issue of suicide and transgender individuals was quite disconcerting.
https://www.crisistextline.org/blog/change-the-stats
Articles and links to studies about suicide produced similar comments and statistics.
Of course cisgender people commit suicide, and of course it’s not always possible to assign any one precipitating factor. There is still so much we don’t know/understand about suicide, still so much yet to be learned about the transgender experience. But the fact that transgender suicide attempts so overwhelmingly outnumber those of non transgender people should be a red flag that calls attention to this problem, and transgender adolescents in particular may require additional support with these statistics in mind.
@Nrdsb4 I’m in agreement with all your points about suicide rates and red flags. There is something very troubling that I thought I was reading on this thread—and I have definitely heard it in my local community so perhaps I over-extrapolated. What I’m troubled by is the assertion that a transgender person had support and transitioned medically, and they still killed themselves, as if that is evidence that trans issues aren’t real issues that could be ameliorated and deserve widespread attention. I’m very troubled when the tragedy of a suicide is taken as evidence of anything… other than a terrible moment of hopeless pain coupled with access to lethal means.
The concern I have is the harm that those who are transgender face. Whether it’s by themselves, by others, by the procedures and drugs that they get or do not get. What causes the least harm, both in the long and short term is the big question.
There usually isn’t one good answer to the question as it can vary from person to person. There is also the important element of quality of life.
If we had evidence that a person who transitioned, or a person who transitioned medically, was more likely to take their life than that same person denied the chance to transition, then that would be evidence we should consider seriously.
But we don’t have that evidence. We can’t compare the people who transition now to people like them ten or fifteen or twenty years ago who weren’t able to transition, because we can’t identify the people twenty years ago who would have transitioned if they’d been able to. We can’t identify “people like them twenty years ago.”
tl;dr We can’t tell the difference between “Transitioning makes people more likely to kill themselves” and “People who are more likely to kill themselves are also more likely to want to transition.”
And also important to know would be why someone who transitioned took their life. Was it because they didn’t feel inside that the transition had brought the welcome change they’d hoped for, or is it because the outside world continued to persist in bullying, shaming, physically abusing, and discriminating against them, thereby crushing the dream that they could actually live in the world as the gender they felt themselves to be?
No easy answers.