<p>I would not let my 9th grader drive other kids around in any vehicle, period. In our state, young drivers are NOT allowed to do so</p>
<p>My son was not allowed to have anyone ride with him in the 9th grade or summer after 9th grade. 1st semester 10th grade. He could carry someone in the front seat.
If he was staying inside the city limits, he could carry others up to the pizza place. We live in a very small one horse town.</p>
<p>We have similar laws on how late a young driver can be out. Maybe it was 10 pm. We certainly abides by all the rules.</p>
<p>I want to make one point. My son is not unusual.
Many parents are completely naive.
My son saw how fast his car would really go twice. Any parent who thinks that their son absolutely has not done the same thing or never would has their head buried in the sand.
My son is an Eagle scout, high ranking in his high school, going to a top 50 university from an area that mostly sends kids to only state schools (nothing wrong with a state school), played 4 sports throughout high school and all the adults in town tell us he is the most polite and well mannered child that they know.
If a parent thinks that their child would absolutely never partake of marijuana or some other drug then they have their head buried in the sand.
If a parent thinks that their child would absolutely never get fall down drunk then they have their head buried in the sand.
There is the old saying that “ignorance is bliss” and that seems to be true for some people.
I would add that
“ignorance is easy” when compared to discovering what is really going on
“ignorance is less stressful” for those who can remain so naive
“ignorance to your child’s true whereabouts and actions” is a very poor plan</p>
<p>lol…honestly…it seems like everyone wants to critique my child or me.</p>
<p>this option to monitor children is relatively new and the kids do not think the parents are using the technology.
that is to the parents advantage, use it while you can.</p>
<p>The way I monitored D1 when she was in high school (she is almost 22 now).</p>
<p>In our state kids couldn’t drive before 17. We didn’t allow her to ride with anyone, so H drove her every where she wanted to go. His record was 4 pickups one Fri night - from school to a friend’s house, to the mall, back to the kid’s house and picking her up later that night. Some parents got the wind of it, some of them actually started asking H if he would mind driving their kids.</p>
<p>When she started driving, we got her a new Mini (it could only fit 4 people uncomfortably). Her deal with us was she couldn’t drink if she was driving. I always waited up for her whenever she went out. We chatted after every party. It was a good way for me to tell if she has been drinking (or smoking), and I got to hear all about the party.</p>
<p>We now live at a place where drinking age is 18. D2 goes to parties(at a club) where there is alcohol. We have a driver to do pick up and drop off (no way we could navigate the traffic). We also wait up for her, and we chat for 10-15 min after each party. So far, D2 hasn’t fallen over in front of us yet.</p>
<p>We are not naive or uninvolved, but we just use other ways to make sure our kids are safe. </p>
<p>smile - you are getting defensive, but you are the one who started this thread.</p>
<p>Just because there is a new technology and it has useful potentials does NOT mean it is appropriate for many settings. Each of us has a different family and different relationship with our kids. We have different levels of involvement with our kids and that is why each of us has to figure out what makes sense for our set of circumstances.</p>
<p>It is great that this technology worked for you & your S & hopefully will have reinforced SAFE habits that he will keep the rest of his life. The rest of us appear to have found what works for us–perhaps some parents will choose to follow some of the methods that worked for you while others of use would NEVER do these things. We all have very different relationships and settings in our lives. That helps keep CC so vibrant and makes our world such an interesting place. :)</p>
<p>My kids & I spent an incredible amount of time together over the many years they were very acutely ill, with me doing most of the driving everywhere they wanted to go. It created some very strong bonds between all of us and I believe we are closer because of it (tho I wouldn’t wish it on anyone–lots of heartache). </p>
<p>I do not see a role for the tools the OP mentioned for my kids and do not feel we are naive because it does not apply (our kids have never caused us to doubt our great trust in them and their judgments to date). I am fascinated that these tools are available and hope it is helpful for where it can be constructive.</p>
<p>smile - you are getting defensive, but you are the one who started this thread</p>
<p>lol…you are probably right…i never intended to divulge so much personal information…
I will have to change my screen name now…
By the way. I do all the waiting up and checking too when he comes home at night.
IMO, girls do not push the limits like the boys do.
That is only a general observation with plenty of exceptions to the rules.</p>
<p>I know that I will get critiqued out the wazoo for the following information, but i will give it anyway and change my screen name.</p>
<p>I was a model child until i was legally old enough to drink (18 at the time).
I had a good GPA, eagle scout, Mr. everything in high school, 4 sports and achieved the highest rank possible at an elite private summer school (i was the only one with the rank) which I attended for 9 weeks every summer.
I obtained my private pilots license the day I was of legal age to fly (i think it was 16), i had my SCUBA license before that and worked on the family cotton farm in Mexico when I was only 13 and continued to work on our farm in the states through high school</p>
<p>I had a total of 13 wrecks before i was 24 years old. I totaled 3 vehicles and flipped 2. I am very lucky to be alive.
Obviously, my parents should have taken any car away but for some reason did not
I was the only child out of 5 children that did not drink to amount to anything before legal age.
My father’s opinion carried a lot of weight with me and the right words at the right time would have prevented me from falling into drugs and alcohol.
From age 18 to 29 i slipped into drugs and alcohol and checked myself into a Chemical Dependency Center when i was 29 years old. I stayed there 42 days and went to a half way house for another 3 months
I have been clean and sober now for 24 years.
I have been to the depths of the hell involved with drugs and alcohol and risen back to the top.
I now run the family business and am considered by many to be very successful.
I have a different perspective than most because not many people have traveled the road I am on. There are very few people who are sober for 24 years once they go through what i did. Many quit for a while but those of us who stay sober and clean for decades are few and far between.
I have deep conversations with my child about all of this and encourage him to take another path.
In my case the GPS was a vital tool and I know that someone out there could change their child’s life if they had more information about the whereabouts and actions of their child.</p>
<p>I will tell my child all about the GPS and how it helped me raise him (one day).
My son is very logical and will have no trouble seeing the benefits afforded him through my use of the GPS</p>
<p>^I don’t care how logical someone is…if I found out my parents had done this to me, no matter how far down the road, I would be hurt and offended. And I would probably never trust them again.</p>
<p>Like I’ve already said, trust is a two-way street.</p>
<p>Smile,
Thanks for sharing your enlightening story. It is very generous of you. I am just curious as to how long you plan to keep GPS-monitoring your S. He’s now 18.5 and it sounds like you slipped into the abyss at 18-29 years of age. Just curious as to what you will use as your yardstick as to when the GPS & drug testing are no longer needed.</p>
<p>Thanks for your candor. It’s fascinating to have glimpses of other lives and how that affects aspects of choices made. Congrats on remaining clean & sober & making a life for yourself after such a rough middle patch.</p>
<p>I’m also wondering the same thing. My husband has a younger cousin who is 30 and just started with the drinking and drugs and has been in rehab twice now in the last 2 years. People fall into the abyss at all ages. I did it when I was in HS and came out of it when I was in my early twenties. </p>
<p>Smile, I appreciate you sharing your ‘methods’ with us. But I detect a note of self-congratulations in your posts and I think you are being very naive. You might be able to track and control your son’s every move right now but then what? What happens when he goes off to college in the fall? How are you going to keep him from doing all the same things you did at that age? There is a reason that many teens and young adults experiment with things like drinking, drugs, sex and other high-risk behaviors. And most of it occurs in college rather than high school. A lot of it has to do with separating from the family and forging their own identity. Our American culture is more geared toward independence and separating from the family ("making it on your own’) than other cultures where pleasing the parents is the first priority. My point is the minute your son goes off to college (assuming you are going to let him live away from home) you have zero control. You will not know what he’s doing or who he’s with at any given minute. You will be lucky if you talk to him a few times a week.</p>
<p>As a parent who, like you, did my share of drugs and drinking at a young age, I understand your fear and appreciate this is what you had to do to feel like you could prevent your child from going through the same thing. Maybe it worked, maybe it didn’t. You really won’t know for a long time to come. The reason I chose not to monitor my son at this level was I didn’t want to risk alienating him because I feel like I have a lifetime of coaching to do and if I lost his trust early on then I wouldn’t have the ability to influence him in the years to come.</p>
<p>You might be able to track and control your son’s every move right now but then what? What happens when he goes off to college in the fall?</p>
<p>This line of reasoning reminds me of the old argument: why make the bed, since it’s just going to be un made later today…</p>
<p>Smile has been able to prevent a lot of potential problems. He may have saved his kid from jail or worse. He has a lot more information than most parents do. How I wish we had had such technology in place when our S became manic/psychotic and we had no idea where he was. We would have found out that he had been taken by the police to the ER, we might have prevented a very serious accident, we might have prevented his arrest… Said S is doing great now, years later, in part due to our extremely tough love, way “worse” than anything Smile seems to be up to. And, by the way, S is much closer to us now than he ever was–respectful, polite, communicative. He thanks us for what we did.</p>
<p>If Smile is paying for college and the truck, of course he still has the right to keep the gps on the vehicle. Random drug tests, whatever may be necessary to attempt to keep his son safe. At least Smile will know that they did everything possible to help prevent tragedy. Then, if S makes a different decision, that’s his call. </p>
<p>S is free to leave the nest and pay his own schooling, if his parents’ requirements do not suit him. IMO, “children” are not out of the nest until they are self-supporting. If they accept/need our money then they accept our conditions. Conditions should be reasonable, like not taking drugs and not speeding. I’m not talking about unreasonable conditions like, for example, requiring a specific major or criteria for girlfriends…</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your enlightening story. It is very generous of you. I am just curious as to how long you plan to keep GPS-monitoring your S. He’s now 18.5 and it sounds like you slipped into the abyss at 18-29 years of age. Just curious as to what you will use as your yardstick as to when the GPS & drug testing are no longer needed.</p>
<p>I will not monitor my child much longer with the GPS. The day he goes off to college I will be through with the GPS. As for self congratulating, possibly you are right. If so, I should not be taking the credit but I am very grateful that my son is alive. I am grateful that he is not hooked on drugs and/or alcohol at this point in his life.
As you can tell by my last post, I am well aware of kids going off to college and taking the wrong path.
As to what I am going to do in the future to monitor his life. I will observe his grades. If he chooses to take the route that I did, he will not do it to the tune of $60,000 a year.
My hope is that he will choose a path that includes hard studying, good grades and responsible social drinking. I am quite certain that he will tie a few on and I hope he feels like hell the next day.
The one thing that I am hoping will make the difference with my child is the long talks that we have had together about what is important in life. I have made it clear to him that drugs will steal your dreams and rob you of your self esteem.
He does not like the family business, so he has a real incentive that I did not have to do well in college.
He also knows that I am very proud of him for his accomplishments. He has received a clear message from his father as to the correct path to choose when it comes to drugs and alcohol. I never received that message and I believe that the correct message to me at the correct time would have made all the difference.
I will also do a lot of praying and hoping that he will make good choices in his life.
Am I going to make a big effort to keep up with him. Absolutely not!..lol
I am going to take my wife places and he may have a hard time finding us instead of the other way around</p>
<p>Yes, it has been shown in studies that folks who experiment with drugs/alcohol at a young age (like 9th grade) are more likely to have addiction & other problems down the road than those who defer such experiences until much later in their lives. I would still be quite concerned if I were Smile.</p>
<p>I will disagree with you in one area and I am sure that it will be controversial.
IMO, alcoholism and drug addiction are a choice, not a disease.
I have seen many people with diseases. None of these people can simply stop a harmful habit and be cured.
However, if calling it a disease makes reform a little more palatable to some, then so be it. I’m all for it.
Some people, initially, cannot handle the fact that the choices that they have made have created so much destruction.
Labeling it a disease, allows abdication of responsibility.
In some cases this is very beneficial to stopping destructive behavior.
However, when someone has been on the other side as long as I have, it becomes clear that it was simply a hard habit to quit.
I made my bed and I slept in it. There was no disease.</p>
<p>Well said and that was my point. Doesn’t matter what Smile did while son was in hs. It may have prevented him from getting seriously involved in drugs or alcohol in hs (which is a good thing, IMHO, the longer you can delay it the better) but that doesn’t mean that Smilejr won’t partake the second he gets to college. None of us are out of the woods with this stuff…ever. I don’t think GPSing the son’s whereabouts every second of high school is going to have much bearing on what the kid chooses to do in college.</p>
<p>Of course, if son was smart enough to catch on to the GPS thing by now, it’s highly likely that he is taking his truck, parking it at an ‘approved’ friend’s house for the night and going on to party the night away with someone else driving. Kids aren’t as naive as we like to think they are…they often just go underground even further when caught.</p>
<p>Well, it isn’t me you are disagreeing with, it is the credentialed medical establishment. That it is a disease does not abdicate responsibility. As with diabetes, self-care is the responsibility of the patient or client. Without it, the disease will rear its ugly head. Using the term “disease” may also highlight the seriousness of the condition, and also the need for methodical, intentional, and specific care (good intentions or a strong will do not work for the vast majority of sufferers). Having the definition of “disease” does more than clarify the science behind addiction, it also helps with gathering attention and resources to move towards a cure or better medical intervention.</p>
<p>This is what I was trying to get at earlier and where I am concerned you risked giving up any opportunity while he was still a minor living under your roof to confront the issue directly. Obviously the psychiatrist or his counselor were not aware of everything you knew via the GPS. I’m just concerned you prevented the behaviors temporarily, while not addressing the reasons for them. As I said, I would not have taken that chance in your shoes.</p>