Maybe he was lonely and felt he needed a friend with him, and felt he was abiding by the spirit of the rule by not allowing his friend to drink the parents’ booze or disturb the parents’ possessions. If the only sign that another human being had been there with your son was that the bed in the spare room was made up in a slightly different way, then it sounds like things are not too bad.
I come from a family with a history of serious depression, and if there were one thing I would never deny my child, it would be the opportunity to have other people around whenever my child wanted or needed company.
I’m not reading that you have much positive to say about your son. You don’t trust him, think he is sneaky and a liar. It sounds like you two don’t even like him that much. Kids can figure this out pretty easily. I wonder how my kids would behave if they thought we did not trust and respect them. The problem is, this is not just an issue for now and in the past, but something that can affect how he views himself and your relationship forever.
Is he sneaky and a liar to all people in his life, or just to you two? Can it be, as others have suggested, that he is merely trying to avoid conflict (as you are), with his dad? I’m not trying to be mean, I just think you have to look at things honestly, to find a solution. My sister had issues with my parents growing up, and it has severely affected her self esteem, even 40 years later, and certainly their relationship.
I would be happy to have my kids friends stay with him over the weekend when we were gone, however I do trust them. They can drink all our booze, but can’t drink and drive, no drugs allowed. Safety is what’s important, and I’d much rather they party at our home than go elsewhere. They can stay anywhere in the house, but must stay away from our bedroom. All I care about is if they’re safe, and they manage to have a great time, behave pretty well, and everything is fine, no sneaking required.
I will ask as gently as possible…22 yr old man used to living at school finally has the house to himself…bed messed up…might it be a girlfriend and a normal sex drive? There are few parental consequences that will win over that scenario.
I did not live with my parents after I was 18 for the simple reason that it would not have worked out unless I lied to them all the time. I never even spent summers at home. We got along fine and still get along. But I keep a lot to myself. A LOT.
@MotherOfDragons, I’m wondering how old your children are right now?
@conmama this parenting at this age is so hard. You still think of them as kids and they think of themselves as adults.
I personally think that all kids lie sometimes to their parents. And that is ok with me, I don’t want to know everything and the kids are trying to find their own way. Part of that is not telling your parents or evading the truth.
If this was me, I have to decide how much I want to take a stand. I think we have similar H’s, mine was in denial that his kids were growing up and had rules that I didn’t always agree with. I sometimes would put blinders on. If the kid wasn’t harming himself and things weren’t too apparent, I would let them go. No reason to get in a big fight. I’m not lying at what I don’t notice ;).
I would have made a point to the kid that I might have noticed something but no parties and no getting out of control. And honestly so what if a 22 yo is drinking your alcohol? He’s legal and he knows where the store is, replace it if that’s important to you.
I have 2 kids, one who argued with everything and one who agreed but did whatever they wanted in the end. Both are out of the house and are productive members of society.
If he is anything like most 22 yr old guys his room was not presentable nor had his sheets seen a washing machime in months. I’d go for the guest room in a heartbeat. No dirty underwear on the floor…
…that’s really the clue that led me down that path.
@ garland, please tell me how you meant that wild assumption in a good way.
@busdriver11 …I’m mad at him right now, so that is what I’m discussing. He has all sorts of great wonderful traits, but that doesn’t have anything to do with my post. im sorry that I gave the impression I don’t like him.
I’d be irritated too. I want to know who’s in my house, and I don’t like the idea of people sleeping over without my permission. I don’t want to have to count the pills in my medicine cabinet or catalogue my jewelry every time I go away for the weekend.
My kids have had friends over when we were away but we always had a discussion first about who would be there and what the house rules would be. Once or twice one of them screwed up. We pulled in the reins a little, for instance making the 19 year old come away with us for the weekends for a while after we found an empty vodka bottle in the basement, but they were able to earn back our trust by doing things like being extra responsible with their friends.
I do think it’s natural for kids to keep some secrets from their parents but IMO there’s a difference between not telling a parent everything and breaking explicit rules.
@conmama, I think about all you can do is teach him that the consequences for telling the truth are more favorable than the consequences for lying. It’s hard to do because you have to “catch” them doing the right thing (telling the truth) when they’ve already established a pattern of avoidance. We got a lot of mileage out of the time our daughter called to tell us her friend, an underage and inexperienced drinker, had gotten blackout drunk at our house. Daughter had done the wrong thing in letting her friend drink, but the right thing in calling us, so we gave her a pass and praised her for being honest about what was happening. Her consequence was having to stay up all night with her friend and cleaning up after her.
Overall, I think @JEM 's advice in post #31 is excellent.
Adding: My family had the same key arrangement as the OP’s when I was growing up. We didn’t lock the door if we weren’t going to be gone for long so we kids didn’t carry a key. We all knew where to find the spare in the garage.
conmama, just want to say that I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Two thoughts…first, since your H feels so strongly about no guests in the house when you and/or he aren’t home, your son grew up with this rule. Not like it’s new information to your son so I understand how offensive and disrespectful having someone over must feel to you. Second, if having a house key in a specific place and each person not having their own is the family standard, that makes sense. However, if ever you and dh are gone for an hour, your son could just go have a key made. Thus, the idea that he wouldn’t be able to access the house while you’re away on the weekend seems (no offense meant) a bit naive.
I do not agree that, as a 22 year old, your son’s preferences should prevail over yours and your dh. I’m sure this has been tried but I would be clear about the house rules (which would include no lying) and say that he has used up his chances and, if caught in violation of any of the rules again, the best option would be for him to spend the summer in his college apartment. Since he doesn’t want to do that (lonely, depressing, too quiet), hopefully, he’ll adhere. If he doesn’t, there’s a very natural consequence that doesn’t threaten his safety nor even his finances (ok, he’ll pay for more food). I will say that it’s easy for me to write this somewhat ‘tough love’ approach but I’ve never been very good implementing it myself!
Lastly, I do agree that it’s hard to have a young adult move back home and, as others have said, hopefully, this will all be over when he first moves back for fall semester and then more permanently when he graduates and has a job.
Because he’s only an hour away. He doesn’t work 2 days and he said it’s extremely lonely, as his friends have graduated or are not there this summer. It’s an empty campus. His class is online. Yes, we’d like him to find more work there, but that’s another issue. The internship was a great coup for all of us.
@Sue22 …thanks! I was beginning to think we were the only ones that were worried about our jewelry and other stuff. DH hates it.
@conmama None of us knows the details of what the kid has done through the years to make your H and you so distrustful of him. And you certainly don’t need to discuss those details here. You may have very good reasons for not trusting this young man. Having said that, it doesn’t seem that you are looking for a way to improve this situation but rather just want him out of the house for good at some point in the near future. The reality is that the rules you are imposing on a 22 year old, near college graduate, seem unreasonable. Not allowing your son to have a key to the house is not the norm. Not allowing friends over is not the norm. I wonder why it is that your H is worried about your son having people over? Do you and your H not know his friends? Is there a reason for that?
As for a kid not paying the mortgage so being unable to acknowledge that it is his home, too? Good grief. That kind of sentiment amazes me. What kid contributes to mortgage payments? What about stay-at-home moms? Is the house they live in not their home? My Ds are all grown and in their own homes and I still think of this house as theirs. It baffles me why some parents wouldn’t want their kids to consider the house they grew up in as their home.
Your son likely needs to earn your trust, yes, but it doesn’t appear that you are giving him the opportunity to do that, even with baby steps.
One other thing–just because you haven’t given S a key doesn’t mean he hasn’t made himself a copy of the one in the garage. There are tons of places that can easily and cheaply make a copy of any number of keys, for as little as $1-5 apiece.
The only way to be SURE there are no spare keys floating around is to change locks and severely restrict access to said keys, which will emphasize to your S that he isn’t trusted.
I’m sorry you’re having these issues–I don’t have any answers for you.
We have a son like this, although much younger. He is smart, generous, and hard working but he has ADHD (treated) and I do think the impulsiveness (followed by denial) is part of that. At this age we are seeing things where he cannot seem to resist…especially if he is alone in the house. It seems to come up once a week or so.
Like taking food that is under restrictions (candy/soda–he gets it but not as often as he wants as a sugar fiend–last week he was secretly guzzling soda in the bathroom before school—or eating ALL the cookies & denying it) or going in and changing the passwords on his sisters electronics/trashing their stuff outside when he is mad at them (and denying it for days, some stuff has been permanently “lost”), to some of their money missing when they don’t put it “away” enough, obviously visiting ahem “unapproved” websites (which is probably pretty “normal” lol), the list is long and it is better NOT to try to remember all of it. It drives my DH absolutely nuts. I have tried to take some of the judge-yness out of the punishment. Just “If the history is cleared on the computer, we will assume it’s you and you lose access to the home computer for a week.”
For better or worse, he is the world’s WORST at hiding his “crimes”—he leaves soda cans hidden under the bathroom sink, food wrappers under his bed…eyeroll. We worry about how he’ll be in college with so many temptations.
“@busdriver11 …I’m mad at him right now, so that is what I’m discussing. He has all sorts of great wonderful traits, but that doesn’t have anything to do with my post. im sorry that I gave the impression I don’t like him.”
I’m glad he has some wonderful qualities, and I understand that you are focusing on the things you’re angry with, right now. Although, I think people will tend to focus on the bad things that others think of them, not the good ones.
I’m still confused about the thinking he might be a compulsive liar, when you don’t know that he is lying to anyone else, but is telling you guys white lies, and didn’t even lie about having his friend stay over, when he was caught. I would suspect he is probably lonely and wants to have his friends over, and not be alone in the house. I’m not sure why that would be a bad thing. Have his friends destroyed and stolen your things before? Can’t you hide your jewelry, or lock your bedroom door?
“As for a kid not paying the mortgage so being unable to acknowledge that it is his home, too? Good grief. That kind of sentiment amazes me. What kid contributes to mortgage payments? What about stay-at-home moms? Is the house they live in not their home? My Ds are all grown and in their own homes and I still think of this house as theirs. It baffles me why some parents wouldn’t want their kids to consider the house they grew up in as their home.”
Yes, that sentiment baffles me (don’t think the OP expressed that). That’s just bizarre. So when my husband was unemployed and didn’t contribute to the mortgage, it wasn’t his home? Or when I was unemployed? How about the parents that don’t work—apparently not their home? When does the house no longer become a child’s home? At birth, since they aren’t paying the mortgage? Yikes! I’d say when the house is sold and the family is moved out, that’s when it is no longer their home.
mine was in denial that his kids were growing up and had rules that I didn’t always agree with. I sometimes would put blinders on. If the kid wasn’t harming himself and things weren’t too apparent, I would let them go. No reason to get in a big fight. I’m not lying at what I don’t notice ;).