Agree, if there is one it’s small. And like we’ve both said likely limited to certain institutional priorities….more males, tuba player, student from south dakota, etc.
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Since we’re trying to help the OP here, I guess the question is whether she should be considering ED at like Bowdoin or Middlebury instead, if it isn’t looking helpful statistically at Amherst and Williams (that being her stated top 4 list).
I still think the better answer is some combination of just properly demonstrating interest at Bowdoin and Middlebury, and also Bates and Haverford, and then maybe consider adding some other LACs to her list as well. Unless one of those emerge as an actual favorite, of course.
But I get why this is complicated, when the MOST selective colleges seem not to offer even a statistical ED advantage.
Another less statistically rigorous approach might also be to research the cultural vibes of each top contender. LACs are huge on fit… and those who attend are also choosing fit, (if their budget allows cultural and academic fit to be a driving factor vs merit/need aid).
The benefit of doing a rigorous culture fit check is for your student, too, making for a higher likelihood of happiness and success. Can your D27 attend the virtual meetups, reach out to adcomms to get connected with students, do online research, etc so she can see what kinds of people and opportunities she will be surrounded by?
It may help with the ED decision, and it may help with understanding admissions odds too. I’m pretty sure my kid “screamed” Wesleyan to their Adcomms team—since he’s now meeting a ton of his classmates on Instagram and exploring the course catalog more fully to pick his classes, he is even more excited about his choice. These are clearly “his people” and my sense is that adcomms for small LACs are very attuned to picking a class that vibes well together. Food for thought anyway 
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It is complicated for OP, especially since they will have excellent options in the UK at a much lower price. Bowdoin vs those options is one thing, Bates another thing entirely IMO. No shade to Bates. Of course we don’t know the how OP’s weighs that $ difference, but something to think about for sure.
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Agreed! For a full pay family that has an outstanding low cost option, ED would only make sense for the school their child would look back with regret if they didn’t get in rd and if the price is worth it. Fit is the most important part.
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It’s to any college’s advantage to have a policy on the books that they don’t take legacies and the children of big donors. That way when they reject such a student, they can point to the policy and claim that they had no alternative.
BUT there are a lot of ways around that policy as per a friend of mine who works in development:
- Work a side deal with the big donor or important legacy and tell them NOT to donate in the years leading up to admission, but with the promise that they will donate after the fact once their child is already a student. After all, it’s the appearance of impropriety that they want to avoid.
- Accept a student who is legitimately qualified but who would otherwise have to take his/her chances with the other 90-95% who are rejected. After all, the policy means that a student won’t be automatically accepted while all other factors are ignored. But it doesn’t mean that such legacies and hooks will be automatically rejected either. Who can complain if a high achieving student is accepted and just happens to also be hooked?
As a business practice, turning away the children of big donors and contributing alums is just a bad idea. Why would anyone contribute if they’re not going to get some kind of consideration in return? I’m sure that Amherst and other colleges with such policies on the books have some kind of a work around. My friend who does fund raising for a prominent teaching hospital connected to an Ivy League med school talks about the “concierge service” which they offer to their big donors whenever a family member is in need of treatment. And this is a place where the super wealthy happily donate without expecting anything in return because the hospital is saving Ives, curing cancers, etc. strictly on humanitarian grounds people want to donate. But why would I donate to a place like Amherst College over any place else I’d I’m Not going to get anything in return? It’s not like they’re short of resources and really need my money.
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The reality is, if she went to Bowdoin or Bates or MIddlebury, she would not be receiving a “worse” education than at Amherst or Williams. These are all peer institituitions. Now it is true that a Bates or Bowdoin student may prefer to play in the woods and volunteer in town and play on intramural teams rather than spend all their time reading.
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Except that the OP has made it quite clear that they prefer an American style liberal arts education over the “heat-seeking missle of specialization that happens at the English units” (OP’s words, not mine). So, it’s not a question of excellence alone but a different product that they’re seeking to buy and seem to be willing to pay for. Bates offers this product par excellence.
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I get it and read that, but not all UK schools are the same…for example St Andrew’s. Anyhow, it’s up to OP how their family will weigh paying $400K (~$100k/yr for four years) for a US degree vs £10k/year for three years.
That’s pretty dramatic and like I wrote above we don’t know if that’s meaningful to OP, if the student has grad/professional school in their sights, how close parents are to retirement etc.
One pattern I see revealed over and over again once the RD results come rolling in, is where people are rejected by Amherst during ED1 then accepted or deferred ED2 by another NESCAC. I mean, if getting into a good, solid LAC is the objective, then taking your shot at your “regret school” (this used to be called, “the dream school” - but I see another terminology emerging LOL) regardless of the odds, knowing there’s a Middlebury, Bowdoin or a Hamilton ED2 possibility in reserve, helps relieve some of the stress.
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There are plenty of people with no children who donate to their alma mater. I honestly don’t understand your point. People give to humanitarian organizations which distribute vaccines in parts of the world they have no intention of visiting. People are now donating to recovery efforts in Venezuela when they can’t even find it on a map. Do you not give to organizations where you cannot get anything in return???
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To be fair in the context of colleges, unless you’re Melinda Gates, probably most donating to colleges out of pure philanthropy do not do so in the kind of sums that would be needed to make a difference to admissions. Also in the context of what you’re responding to, there was this:
which is quite different to the examples you’re giving (and also what made me think of Melinda Gates, who is donating where it makes a huge difference rather than to the well-endowed colleges).
I do know of people who have donated to their alma maters, not admissions-swaying sums, and still got annoyed when their kids were rejected and decided to stop donating 
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Notably, LACs - at least the NESCACs that I’m aware of, have among the highest alumni giving rates in the country; very few of the individual donations would be considered large enough to move the needle in terms of a legacy admit.
But I’m as confused as you are. Not sure how we got on this subject.
It’s a bit of drift from discussing hooks in ED/how ED admit rates may not be reflective of reality for unhooked students.
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Yes, that is how college counseling worked at my S24’s feederish private HS generally, but it was particularly apparent when it came to LACs. The experienced college counselors really tried to help kids identify strong two-way fits–the college is a good fit for the kid (including affordability concerns as relevant), and the kid is a good fit for the college. And with strong academics and a good list of those, the kids almost invariably ended up with multiple offers they were very happy to consider, even assuming they didn’t get admitted somewhere ED.
Obviously it is a convenience to have such help on-staff at your HS, but I really think the community here at CC can collectively serve the same role. Each of us as an individual obviously has colleges we know better than others, but as a group we provide really excellent coverage.
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Absolutely. I never have a problem with people who only want to consider certain very selective options in the US, if they have realistic options in a country like the UK they would prefer to all the other US possibilities.
I do think it is useful to know that selectivity as measured by things like acceptance rates is in part a function of popularity for non-academic reasons. Like, colleges in more popular cities or regions will tend to have lower acceptance rates than academic peers in less popular areas, and indeed the latter may well be more likely to offer merit as well.
But still, if a kid sees their ex-US options as being preferable to those US colleges in less popular areas in part BECAUSE they are in less popular areas, that’s fine too.
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Yes, that is really the point of ED2 (to be available for kids who did not get the result they wanted in the first early round), and obviously any college that offers ED2 is fine with that being the way they get some of their students.
I will note that one somewhat stressful situation can arise when the first round favorite does not reject you but instead defers you to RD. If you had a possible ED2 college in mind, you then have to decide whether to give up on the first round favorite entirely, or just apply RD to the ED2 idea.
But as usual, the “best” solution to this problem is arguably just having really good options besides just these two.
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I’m late to this thread but I will address the OP here. Every college mentioned in this thread so far has top notch academics.
If your daughter will consider schools not on the eastern seaboard, and she is looking for a great LAC experience at an absolutely beautiful college, she should definitely consider Kenyon. She might have a chance of getting a merit scholarship there. A lot of famous people attended Kenyon, if you want to familiarize yourself with it. I also think Carleton and Grinnell are great options. (Scholarships also possible at Grinnell.)
The Claremont Consortium in So Cal is also worth investigating.
Definitely not highly likely. Both are reaches. In fact, I would say that virtually every college mentioned in this thread is a reach. There are degrees of reachiness, of course.
My D applied to several of the colleges listed in this thread. She attended Bates and went to Oxbridge for her masters. She said more than once that her Bates academic experience was much more rigorous than her Oxbridge experience was. Sample of one, of course.
If your D is really into the community mindedness of Bowdoin, I would suggest that Bates is probably closer in vibe to Bowdoin than some of the others mentioned.
My cons on the ones in your original post, bearing in mind that each of them are exceptional:
- Swarthmore is intensely academic and probably the hardest to get into. Don’t ED without understanding that.
- Williams is about as “old money” as you get in the US. Make of that what you will.
- Amherst is a bit more of a pressured environment.
- Middlebury is isolated and regarded as preppy.
- Haverford is soooooo small. It has several hundred students fewer than Swarthmore, also pretty small. Be committed to the LAC experience.
- Bowdoin is also a bit “old money” and a bit preppy.
- Bates is in Lewiston, a town that has seen better days. Some people feel it has dangerous elements, but you will not find many Bates families who agree with that. It was founded partly as an alternative to Bowdoin and Colby, with the stated goal of educating all, regardless of economic background. That vibe is still there, and of course, Bates is practically perfect in every other way
If your D decides to use her ED card, it will possibly be more helpful at some colleges than others. I can’t recall everyone else’s comments, but ED might be most helpful at Bates, Skidmore, Middlebury, Kenyon, Connecticut College, Grinnell, Hamilton, and maybe Haverford.
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Yeah, I only have a bird’s eye view of the ED2 deferrals; they frequently come out in the wash of “Can More Actual Results Be Posted Here” type threads at which point we’re really just discussing RD results. Amherst is probably the reachiest of the NESCACs and the chief advantage of playing the ED1 card there is having no regrets by the time the late March decisions roll around.
Bowdoin has the lowest admit rate of the NESCACs, by a whisker. All of the NESCACs haven’t shared Class of 2030 results yet, but here is a database that includes most NESCACs with Class of 2029 results.
Separately, Bowdoin’s Class of 2030 admit rate is 6.5%, Amherst’s 6.78%, Williams 7.4%.
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