<p>I did read the book. Good, even great book. But not an admirable person in the book either. </p>
<p>I can’t imagine just disappearing and causing such grief to my family. Heartless and selfish.</p>
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So he should have been tied down and done the heartless work his parents wanted so he wouldn’t upset them, rather than live the life he wanted? The parents who made his childhood painful? The mother who wanted conformity from him, the father who abused his mother and secretly had children on the other side of the country? He should have given up his dreams to do things he hated so that they wouldn’t feel sad that he wasn’t around? On his journey, he consistently demonstrated behavior towards others that would be described as the opposite of “heartless and selfish,” being a good person that touched many lives and sought personal fulfillment, teaching others to do the same.</p>
<p>“As long as the kid (rather than the parent) is willing to sacrifice for his/her dreams, I say go for it.”</p>
<p>This, for me, is the real issue. I see too many 20-30 something neighbor kids living at home b/c the dream job doesn’t pay enough for them to be sefl-supporting. Even the kids who are out of the house require subsidy – parents paying for cable, cell phone service, or car insurance. I think part of growing up is learning to live w/i your means (and if you can’t earn a living at your dream job, mabye that dream should move from voation to avocation).</p>
<p>I love my children dearly, but I do plan to retire at some point and I cannot save enough to support them and myself in my old-age.</p>
<p>TatinG, my tennis pro was on the tour and now he feeds balls to me and many other women of a certain age! He supports a family, owns a home. Hey somebody has to feed balls to us bored, over indulged housewives. Especially those of us who studied theater and are under employed!:). I have a practical to his fingertips kid, wouldn’t mind if he was more of a dreamer, at least every now and then.</p>
<p>If the parent is willing to help support a child, that’s fine. Hard to say at what point the support is more detrimental than helpful. Something that has to be determined on a case by case basis. I have a number of contemporaries who are doing very well on their own after being family supported long past the time that most parents could endure. And I know some whose parents refused to do so, and they never got any further. Who knows if a little boost could not have made a difference?</p>
<p>You know what I find unrealistic? The idea that money is the end-all be-all of your future and that a so-called “practical” career field is important, whereas someone’s dream should be pursued on the side after they secure a high-paying job.</p>
<p>Many people are happy with jobs that are high-paying, but not everyone is. Would you rather be happy with a low-paying job or unhappy with a high-paying “career”?</p>
<p>In terms of financially supporting adult children once they are finished their educations…it isn’t simply a matter of values or personal philosophy. While I do believe adults should support themselves, the other issue in our case is that I cannot afford to support my kids living elsewhere. I’m stilly paying back and will be for a long while, the loans I borrowed to pay for their support during college and grad school. I had to borrow money to help pay for it during those years and so it is not like I had money sitting around to pay their rent during college or after. I simply don’t. But no matter what, I would expect my kids to support themselves once out of school. We’re here in a pinch or to treat them to something they can’t afford, but they must pay for their regular expenses, as we don’t once they finish their schooling and final degrees.</p>
<p>S2 is crazy about golf. He plans to be on the pro circuit by the time he’s 18. He’s following the negotiations for the 2018 (some big) golf tournament because, as he says, he will be 20 then and playing in it. My heart sinks when I hear him talk this way, because I know how small the chances are that he will do this, but I just tell him that I’ll do whatever I can to support him. Of course, we insist that he do well in school. I could see homeschooling him sometime during HS to give him more time to play golf. </p>
<p>He studies with a wonderful young man who, I’m sure, once hoped to be a top competitor. Instead, he is coaching young kids and teenagers. He is really wonderful with the kids, runs his business very efficiently, and makes a good living. I don’t see anything wrong with this. </p>
<p>I also see golf as a lifetime sport.</p>
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<p>Apologies if already stated- I need to read the whole thread- but how can this be new? I mean we have forever had people achieve great success in literature, the performing arts, the visual arts…likewise we all know of many successful start ups by young people. How were these things possible, and these contributions made to our society if not by someone’s pursuit of them? </p>
<p>Lots of occupational paths have end goals with very low odds. To me this is no more ‘indulgent’ than encouraging or supporting one’s kid to become a brain surgeon, a professor of philosophy, or a wealthy investment banker (when you look at the actual odds of achieving those particular goals). </p>
<p>Last time I checked, society was made up of thousands upon thousands of different occupations. Not everyone cares to become an engineer, accountant, doctor or lawyer. Thankfully this isn’t India or China and for the most part; just because the past few years have looked a bit economically frightening, its but a blip in time. People have, and will continue to become able to support themselves after youthful years of exploration and education in many different realms.</p>
<p>One example of a guy who is on the “traditional” path: A guy who is a brilliant chemist in graduate school, married with two kids. Refuse to graduate, living off of his meager graduate stipend ($800/month back in 1986). The Prof has to kick his butt for him to defend his thesis and find a real job…Professional student is a popular profession in Germany. With the support of the government, there are many students just hang out at school for 10-15 years.</p>
<p>^ We have the same thing here…it’s called being a post-doc 
It pays only slightly better than grad school. I believe Amy Chua’s father was one for a very long time.</p>
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<p>Why does it upset you so? Adults can spend their money however they wish. No one is holding a gun to your friends’ heads and its not your money. </p>
<p>Do you get mad when you see wealthy adults living at the country club because they ‘married well’ (or in some cases ‘divorced well’)? Or someone with a big house or gigantic source of funds they inherited but didn’t earn themselves? How about all those successful business people who only got there because of tremendous backing from their family’s old money? It’s all over the place if you want to look for it. Since when was life fair or our society a true meritocracy? </p>
<p>Not working at 26? Gosh I didn’t start my career and a real income until I was 28! Didn’t buy a house until my 30s. My parents didn’t support me but others sure did and I would be kidding myself if I suggested all my good fortune and success was due to my ‘personal’ hard work. Bull crap. A ton of luck and the generosity by others - known and unknown- paved the way for me. Like the taxpayers, the donors and the private colleges that covered my tuition and stipend for my graduate degrees.</p>
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<p>What’s wrong with that? Someone’s got to teach tennis, right? When I go work out, I’m certainly glad that there are personal trainers, tennis instructors, yoga instructors, and so forth. Is it not an honorable job? Sure, you won’t get rich, but so what?</p>
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<p>Let’s see … of my radio/TV/film major friends from NU, here’s what they do …
- Director of corporate communications for a particular non-profit
- Professor of public health (got PhD), focusing on the communication of public health improvement messages (linking back to a communications major)
- Director of development at a state university
- Runs own yoga studio and teaches theater</p>
<p>What’s the problem here? They are all self-supporting and happy. Over and done.</p>
<p>Starbright: It upsets me because my friends are upset. It’s that simple.</p>
<p>It’s very hard to gauge what is realistic. People have told my D she is crazy to go to law school. I told her to go for it. She doesn’t want to earn big money in big law. She wants to end the penalty and fight for prisoner’s rights. I <em>did</em> encourage her to attend a public known for public interest law so her debt load would be manageable.</p>
<p>Folks insist there are no jobs for lawyers. Well, there will always be some, and I can’t help but think that a basic requirement will be a law degree.</p>
<p>My S is considering a PhD in Art History. He wants to work in museums. I told him to go for it, particularly with a funded PhD program. The worst thing that will happen is he will do something that seems barfable to him like go into advertising. He is a great musician and a great writer and has filmed movies himself, so he can always find a place helping to write AD copy or make commercials. He’d rather avoid corporations and making rich folk richer. I don’t blame him. He’s too young to throw in the towel.</p>
<p>I got a PhD in English. My parents thought I was totally unrealistic and wanted me to go to law school. I thought I was a sell out who needed security because all I really wanted to do was write.</p>
<p>I have a tenured job teaching English, have had poetry published and read at the UN, and have written two as yet unpublished novels.</p>
<p>I <em>have</em> enjoyed my job. I pursued my PhD in a previous recession and was told that there were no college teaching jobs in the humanities.</p>
<p>I <em>did</em> turn down Columbia because they wanted me to retake the masters year and pay for it again and I was already in a fully funded PhD program. Still don’t know if that was the right decision.</p>
<p>The arts can be a very lucrative profession, but you have to have either extraordinary talent, luck, or connections. My niece graduated from USC film school, and works in a doggie day car center. Still paying off student loans. My H majored in art after getting rejected from vet school, and is a very successful animator. None of his family imagined he would be a success. But he has an extraordinary talent in his field.
What do you tell your kid to do? I have no idea! My D was a very good HS trumpet player, but she didn’t want to pursue music in college after seeing her music teacher’s (USC Music school grad) crummy apartment. None of the music grads she knows have jobs in orchestras. None.
Most switch from music performance to music education after sophomore year. How many districts are hiring music teachers?
What do you tell your kid to do? Everyone else she knows is planning on going to law school. There can’t possibly be jobs for all those lawyers. Not even nursing is a guarantee anymore.
I do not have an answer…</p>
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<p>There’s really a snobbishness in here that I find disconcerting. Who better to teach 5 yo’s ballet than, well, a ballerina? For some people, if they can’t make it professionally, that really does become their dream – to be able to teach others to dance and participate in some way in that world. And I don’t see what’s so wrong with that, or the tennis-player-tossing-balls-to-middle-aged-women either. Who should do those jobs, IYO, Tatin? People who aren’t good at tennis or ballet?</p>
<p>There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. And it is commendable. And you are earning your own living. But when you go to dance school, more than likely you have to realize that you will not be earning a living as a dancer. The daughter of a friend of mine tried to dance theater for ten years before giving up. Parents have to tell kids the truth about the chances at certain occupations up front. Then the kids will be prepared when reality sets in.</p>
<p>I am an artist and a teacher so I am obviously biased. I agree wholeheartedly with Sooziet that an education is, in and of itself, a worthy goal that is it’s own reward. I believe that a person should pursue their passion and that same person is responsible for supporting themselves in whatever way is necessary and practical. The problem with keeping your creative interests as a hobby, for some people is that they pass up the opportunity, early in life, to gain an education in that creative field. They may never have the chance to get that later in life. Without an education in the field of art or music or theatre, it is very likely that the creative individual will have no choice but to keep it as a hobby because they will never develop the skills that will propel them toward growth and mastery of their creative venue.</p>
<p>I make a living by teaching what I love. I love to teach so that works well for me and for my students. Others artists, musicians, actors, etc. may waitress, paint houses, do landscaping, etc. in order to put food on the table. Would they be happier working in a sales office or insurance agency and painting on Sunday? Some might. It depends on the person. I will say that I have met many, many adults who tell me that they have great regret that they didn’t follow their heart when they were younger. I think a lot of it has to do with how passionately you feel about your interest. Some people might be content to keep it on the side but if you are truly an artist to the core, your happiness is tied to that. </p>
<p>I have one D who just graduated with her BFA. She is struggling with a direction but she knows that she will have to figure that out somehow. It doesn’t matter because she would never have been happy studying any other discipline .
My other D is a Bio major and plans on a job in the medical field. This one is all about planning and security. She is interested in art but not passionate about it. Different strokes. I’m happy for both of them and as proud as a parent can be.</p>