<p>I agree with MiamiDAP that before someone goes into a field, they should be well informed about the career and opportunities and risks, etc. My kid who is in the performing arts has always had a very realistic sense of her chosen career field and has NO illusions. She is not someone who says, “I’m gonna make it on Broadway.” Her goals are not so unrealistically defined as that. Her goals are to work in her field and so far, that is what is happening. </p>
<p>I also agree with musicamusica that it takes a lot of drive, initiative, hard work, etc. to create opportunities for yourself and to also network and not sit around waiting for someone to come to you, particularly in the arts. So much of what my D has done so far is due to those factors. She goes out and makes things happen for herself. Also through networking, so much just falls on her lap. She is even turning down jobs (and she gets jobs for her friends who she suggests when she turns down offers). Like her D, my kid has even gotten to travel for free. Last summer and fall, she was paid to perform, all expenses paid, in both Germany and Abu Dhabi. She just turned down an offer to perform in Scotland (or I think she turned it down…she told me she wasn’t gonna do it…it came to her and she wasn’t looking to do it…as has happened many times lately).</p>
<p>^lateparty- “Outliers” by Malcolm Gladwell addresses the Bill Gates phenomenon quite well. I agree that part of his unique success was the unusual resources made available to him by his parents. This book was on my S senior reading list and he loved it.</p>
<p>“Wow. A Hebrew keyboard, and with vowels to boot. I’m impressed”</p>
<p>:) no, just copy and paste from Machon mamre (I would have deleted the hebrew, but its kind of awkward to do so, cause of the reverse direction, i end up deleting the english instead) My DD manages to type in Hebrew, but wants to get an overlay for her keyboard to make it easier.</p>
<p>back on topic</p>
<p>DD will be starting Arch school in the fall. I have tried to be upfront about the challenges in the profession, esp the cyclical nature. MOre than that, I have encouraged her to network with OTHER people about the profession, not to get all info from me (this esp came up WRT to arch possibilities in Israel). She is beginning to waver between arch with extra Civil E (maybe a civil E minor) to thinking about majoring in Civil E (at RPI it would be easy to switch). Her mom was thinking she should switch immediately - I think its easier to switch from Arch to Civil than in the other direction, so I say go ahead and start Arch - see how you like it, and find out from people AT RPI about networking, career prospects, etc, etc. </p>
<p>IF she stays in Arch, and IF she earns towards the bottom of the range - I would be inclined to help her out to the extent of helping with loan repayment, but not daily living - fortunately she is a frugal sort (this year in ISrael she has also learned about budgeting). If she has NO job (heaven forbid) on graduation, I will welcome her to come home and start looking from home.</p>
<p>There is a lot of area between enabling a kid who really isn’t pursuing anything but just “talking the talk” and supporting a kid who is finding his way, busting his tail to some goal. When else do folks have no commitments, no dependents, few financial obligations than when they get out of college? Once you start making financial commitments like buying a house/condo, car, taking a career type job, committing to a partner, having kids, etc, other issues come to play. Now’s the time.</p>
<p>Sometimes support means giving them sanctuary when they need and encourage them and not discouraging their efforts. That can be more valuable than just financial support. So your kids may well be able to do for their kids, Shrinkrap.</p>
<p>There is a huge difference in “supporting a dream” and instilling in your kid a strong work ethic. We know lots of young musicians and actors who have been given nothing but financial support,encouragement, resources and opportunity. But they fall short on the work ethic. And honestly, as far as encouragement…our only encouragement has been that if she is not up to the hard work, she should seriously rethink going into the arts. I can not tell you how many times we have had this discussion.
D has “lucked out” in a few ways with her big set of lungs, ear for music and uncanny ability at foreign languages. As far a significant resources?----that has not been the case in our family.</p>
<p>I want to add that my kid with his MT degree from a state school graduated from a highly selective prep school where nearly half the kids went to highly selective colleges. He is one of the very few who is truly on his own. The one guy who is working in what sounds like a dream job , maybe is a dream job is living in a luscious Manhattan apartment and has lots of spending money, but it isn’t from his pay check. He is not in a career position and really makes very little despite a degree from HPY. Many of the kids in traditional jobs are being heavily supported by parents, not to mention many who are in graduate schools in PHD programs that aren’t likely to pay back the costs. Most of the kids will get there, fairly independent in the end, but right out of school, I don;t see too many completely self sufficient. Mine is , because he can’t stand living at home, and I can’t subsidize him living in NYC.</p>
<p>I went to journalism school in an era when, more than likely, you can’t earn a living as a journalist. Just because you major in a profession doesn’t mean you can’t find a job in another field. Many skills are transferable - someone trained in MT has expressive skills and public performance ability that are not very common.</p>
<p>I’m a park ranger now, and nobody gets rich on GS wages. I don’t care. Life isn’t about money. It’s about living.</p>
<p>“Sometimes support means giving them sanctuary when they need and encourage them and not discouraging their efforts. That can be more valuable than just financial support. So your kids may well be able to do for their kids, Shrinkrap.”</p>
<p>Agreed. </p>
<p>But we so often talk about the benefits of being able to be a “full pay” parent for your kids “dream school”. Parents “dream career” might mean their kid is looking for a "meets full need "or "full ride"come high school. Not always compatible with the next generation’s dream.</p>
<p>So polarscribe’s kid may have fewer choices. (Not picking on you; just the post above mine). Does/ will polarscribe care, or will polarscribe say that’s not fair?</p>
<p>I have to admit that any of the OPs accounts would have my hair in bunch if it applied to any of my kids, however, I do understand some of the situations. I guess I could relate to the kid who wants to roam the world and “live as a homeless person” This kid will embark on a great journey and if he/she comes out of it ok will probably have a lifetime of amazing memories…something like this could only be done when your young and have no obligations. At least the kid did’nt say he wanted to travel the world staying in five star hotels eating 5 star meals everyday on his parents funds. </p>
<p>Some of the other situations were interesting too. The kid who was homeschooled in the hopes of becoming a tennis pro. I don’t know but it could be worse…the kid could have been homeschooled and out partying and clubbing everynight. That kid will probably come to terms with the odds of making it big very soon. He will then decide what he needs to do with his future. Again, I would have trouble being supportive in some if not all of these cases but I remember kids doing some crazy things back when I was in college. I had a friend whose parents had to hire people to get her out of a crazy “religious” group. She had to go into some type of therapy to deprogram her after the two years she was there. </p>
<p>If any of my kids said they wanted to take a year off and travel I would want to pack myself in their suitcase or backpack…when else could some of these things be done. Of course I couldn’t afford to have my kids do it but if I had the money I probably would have very different kids. I have seen many kids of affluent parents go a little crazy and many seem like they are just floundering but somehow mom and dad reel them in eventually and usually these kids are just fine based on the connectiions their parents have.</p>
<p>^My kids have traveled a lot, much more than most. They did it while being at school as well as many many other things they did while being in school. I told my D. that she will not have a gap year, she said she knew, just because she understand our family values. Nobody had problems with this, they are both appreciated all opportunities, and thanked us many many times. I personally believe that we have spoiled them and hope that they spoil their kids also. Actually, my grandkids are also very spoiled, which is great. All are very hard workers…we are very proud…</p>
<p>Someone we knew has a son who graduated from Harvard, decided to turn down the medical schools that accepted him because they weren’t any he wanted, and spend a couple of years working with AIDs patients. Dad went ballistic, and immediately withdrew every bit of financial support because he did not want to pay for this activity. They were breaking their bank accounts and scrimping to pay for Harvard and were going to pay for medical school, but danged if they were paying a dime for this . Yeah, they’d pay for a trip to China over the summer, a vacation, all sorts of things, but hey, that’s their money and if they don’t feel like supporting a cause with it, that’s their business. Perhaps another parent would have been supportive and subsidized the kids in this endeavor. But not that parent. </p>
<p>It is your money, and you can invest it where you please. I don’t blame my friend at all, but I would have kept it all civil and non threatening. There are things you want to support and things you don’t but you don’t have to be nasty about it with your kid. Of course, I couldn’t have paid for any of it anyways, so it wouldn’t have been an issue other than my reactions.</p>
<p>^ I am fully on the side of this parent. I fully understand him. In addition, his son woudl be much more help for AIDs patients after Med. School, not before. In addition, you cannot be choosy with Med. Schools that accept you, ALL US Med. Schools are very good and every single one of them is very selective. I know because my D. is starting at one of them in few weeks. I told her exactly the same, but few years before her graduation from UG, I told her “no gap year” and she understood me perfectly. We did not pay for Harvard, no she went to state school on full Merit scholarships, so her hard work basically paid for her UG. Again, I am fully 100% on a side of this parent.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse - Not sure what this kid was trying to do was wrong. I know one family who had a daughter working in India for an year in an AIDS clinic after college at Rice (she had Rice/Baylor admission) and got into Harvard med. Her brother went to Brown, went and taught English in Turkey for an year or two so he could apply to Harvard Law and he did get in.</p>
<p>It seems to be the way to get into Harvard graduate programs at least and these kids knew figured out that is something they had to do in order to get in.</p>
<p>Oh, the kid has long gone past that. Worked 2 years with an AIDs and some other program, lived basically on minimum wage since Dad and Mom cut him off, and after the first year, reapplied and was accepted to some med schools he liked. He has finished since and doing well. He was a top student at Harvard and had top MCAT scores. </p>
<p>Not saying what the kid was doing was wrong. I just don’t agree and I wouldn’t have supported it even if I could have. I don’t blame the parent for cutting off the subsidy.</p>
<p>Another case: H’s co-worker has a son who graduated from a prestigious university with a physics degree with high honors. But he has no direction after college. He’s just hanging out. The family gave him one year of support to ‘find himself’ and after that he’s on his own. Seems reasonable to me.
Long term support of someone who is just drifting in life would only promote more drifting.</p>
<p>“It is your money, and you can invest it where you please. I don’t blame my friend at all, but I would have kept it all civil and non threatening. There are things you want to support and things you don’t but you don’t have to be nasty about it with your kid.”</p>
<p>^^ Yeah, no need for parents to get nasty (though I have seen plent of KIDS get very nasty b/c they feel that, as long as the parent has the money, the parents should bank-roll child - - even if that requires signif belt-tightening on the parent’s part).</p>
<p>IMO Cptofthehouse’s sad story of the young lady forced to go to law school when she wanted to be a musician shows the fallacy of parents NOT “indulging” their kids’ desires to follow their passion in the arts. With some moral support from her folks, that young lady might well be finding success in her art. I think it’s foolish for parents to dictate majors for their kids.</p>
<p>I also think it’s foolish for anyone to saddle themselves with loans they they can’t easily pay back.</p>
<p>Boy, I have a different perspective from so many of you. I went to a pretty Bohemian college in the 1970’s and although I got a corporate job during my senior year (needed the money since I knew there would be no parental support) as did many of my “scholarship student” friends-- the typical graduate of the era was heading off for a year or two or 6 or 8 of naval gazing and “finding oneself”. I had friends who were heading to beach towns, ski towns, the various cultural capitols of Europe, etc. with vague dreams of writing, tour-guiding, leading scuba dives, etc.</p>
<p>To me, the current generation seems so pre-professional! I never knew a 19 year old who wanted to be a tax lawyer! Nobody I knew in college ever used the word “I-banking” in a sentence (and I didn’t find out what I-banking was until I got to business school several years later). I thought accountants were for rich people who needed help with their tax returns and really didn’t know you could study accounting as an undergrad like you could study Renaissance History or Comparative Literature (which is what even my “scholarship student” cohort was doing.)</p>
<p>There have always been kids and families who could “think outside the box” or be self-indulgent (depending on how you view it.) I envied the kids who were graduating and had the luxury of a year or two to figure things out before settling down. But as I look at my classmates we all sort of end up in the same place. I’ve had a successful corporate career which has been very satisfying and will likely retire when I’m young enough to have a second act. My college friends who spent lots of years after college getting launched into something are still raising kids and worrying about paying for college, and for some of them, they ended up in secure careers after a long period of subsistence. And a few very lucky ones truly hit it big- Tony/Emmy awards, a couple of Pulitzer prizes, a Guggenheim, and we are all so thrilled that these truly talented people had parents who were willing to let their talents percolate after college instead of insisting that they get certificates in ultra-sound technology or get a Master’s in Special Ed. Not that the world doesn’t need ultra sounds or special ed- but I think if you win a Guggenheim or a Pulitzer its a bit of validation that the world needs your creativity just as much.</p>
<p>And for sure there are a fair number of my fellow students who are burnt-out professional successes in lucrative careers that they always hated but went into to please the 'rents. Doctors on third marriages. Corporate execs who have logged time in Betty Ford for unspecified ailments. Law Partners who have nervous breakdowns when they turn 50. Etc.</p>