<p>I hope my daughters look toward their father for a good example. He went into a field he found exciting. When the job became boring to him he would find another. When he decided he needed a sabbatical he found a way to pay for it himself. Turns out, if you love what you do you are often good at it. He was rewarded well for the work he was in. And then, when he was struck with cancer in his forties, he died with no regrets.</p>
<p>And that is the real lesson. You don’t know how long you have. Don’t save your dreams for later, it may never come. Live your dream now.</p>
<p>I always tell my kids, “Make the choice that makes your life bigger.”</p>
<p>I find the only (and they are very few, a couple of trips I didn’t take, a few times I didn’t take a risk) regrets I have are the things I didn’t do. I really don’t regret the things I did, no matter how out of the box my choices may have been. </p>
<p>And some were so far out of the box, they weren’t even in the same country as the box. :D</p>
<p>^^^^“Turns out, if you love what you do you are often good at it.”</p>
<p>This is exactly correct. Combine this with a willingness to self-advocate and work tirelessly, and chances are good that it all works out. Both my H and I are in the arts, and neither of us is ever wanting for work. In fact, DH is usually over-employed in his field, and now I’d better get off CC and go get ready to see his performance tonight…</p>
<p>You didn’t say anything about these parents being upset. Your focus seems to be on the ‘indulged’ kids. Who says these ‘indulging parents’ are upset? And why would they be? Are they being held hostage by their children? </p>
<p>Parents choose to do this…and so why are they upset they have chosen, and continue to choose, this path? Who is doing what to whom? Are you mad at the kids, then? Forcing their parents into these terrible situations as you see it? </p>
<p>How about your friends’ dysfunction? An appropriate word for those that continually put themselves into situations that make them upset and have no sense of how to make changes that would make them happy. Maybe you could suggest therapy to help them make better choices they are happy with? And that then would make you less upset too.</p>
<p>The account of the Asian female musician who ended up being forced into a law school sounds like the life story of dozens of high school classmates who were forced into pre-professional programs by their parents from childhood onwards. </p>
<p>While they all excelled and became successful in professions ranging such as medicine, law, ibanking/finance/business, engineering, pharmacy, and more, the vast majority are either miserable at best or are burning out, in therapy, having meltdowns, and estranged from their parents/families as a result. Some of those meltdowns have been happening with some of my high school friends on FB after being out of college for 10+ years. </p>
<p>While it is good to instill good work ethic and expectations of self-support/direction in one’s life, trying to actively discourage or even block certain majors/career paths because they are risky/insecure even after the student concerned is going in with eyes wide open is not only wrong, but potentially damaging to the student later in his/her life. Better to have given it a good “college try” and fail than to regret never having made the attempt.</p>
<p>We expect that we may be helping D follow her passions as we are able when she graduates with her cinema degree, but who knows? We have urged her to follow her dreams & passions so she will have no regrets. She has spent more time pondering a major than anyone else I know and we are delighted that she is pursuing one she LOVES and has talent for. She has been on the artistic team for two movies already and hopes to do more next year as a senior. I have always thought she would be happiest in some field where she could use her love of art and feel that her current major does allow her to exercise a great deal of it.
While in college, she has chosen to take a wonderful array of courses and is thrilled by all she ahs learned in each course & field, bemusing her advisors. Her path is likely to be a bit rockier than her brother’s, but he chose what he enjoys & has never had a shortage of job offers for his EE (tho many of his classmates are still job hunting one year after they graduated). Both of them have followed their passions and we are happy and excited for them that they are doing what they both love.</p>
<p>S did move back home with us for a while, awaiting his security clearance & just “chilling out” with us while he helped declutter our house & clean up both his & D’s rooms. It was such a joy having him home and getting to know him better as an engaging, amusing adult. It was the longest time he has been home since he started college in 2006! Since he is relocating to VA/DC for his new job, we cherished every moment!</p>
<p>D will likely need more financial support as she finds her way, but who knows? She has never ceased to surprise us with her networking and successes to date. We are fortunate to be in a position to allow her to follow her dreams for a while, even if it takes some time before she is fully self-sufficient. She is grateful that she will be covered under H’s health insurance until she turns 26 (thanks to Healthcare Reform).</p>
<p>“dozens of high school classmates who were forced into pre-professional programs by their parents from childhood onwards. …While they all excelled and became successful in professions ranging such as medicine, law, ibanking/finance/business, engineering, pharmacy, and more, the vast majority are either miserable at best or are burning out, in therapy, having meltdowns, and estranged from their parents/families as a result.”</p>
<p>cobrat, you’re saying the rates of those outcomes are higher than average in that group? I’d love to see some data on that, but have no idea how you would do a controlled study. I have to say, in MY practice, I don’t see much of those types.They must see the more expensive shrinks!</p>
<ol>
<li><p>This is the group who were forced into such majors when they really had no initial interest or found they had no interest/active dislike of the fields concerned. This does not include a larger group of HS classmates who chose such careers of their own volition. The latter group tends to be much happier. </p></li>
<li><p>The highly competitive/cutthroat nature of the high school meant there was also a great deal of extreme peer pressure to go into such majors which tends to increase burnout rates overall…especially in the forced group. And that’s not accounting for the pressures to go Ivy or bust or the mentality among the top quarter that going to anything less than HYPSMC school or their peers meant one was “a ■■■■■■”. </p></li>
<li><p>Continued harsh criticism from parents even after the student has made it into a top college, grad/professional school, and gaining professional plaudits/promotions/awards. Nothing’s ever good enough for such parents…even if said parents didn’t have what it took to achieve anything near what their offspring has achieved. This was also not limited to recent immigrant parents. More irksome IMO was how most such parents had the nerve to do this when they never paid a cent for their offspring’s educations due to generous FA and/or scholarships or because said parents chose not to finance their children’s education despite having ample means (Knew one such set of parents who opted to spend several millions for a McMansion rather than support their A student in college). While the latter is the parents’ right, IMHO…not having paid a cent also means said parents forfeit the right to make criticisms about the college, major, or subsequent career path of said student if said student is self-supporting or especially when they are buying homes, vacations, contributing to retirement accounts for said parents.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>It sounds like you are talking about a very specific group of kids, and not a random sample of kids whose parents encouraged a “professional” rather than “artistic” career.</p>
<p>FWIW My sister is the lawyer (she was an art major in college, did some at work after law school, but practiced law far a better lifestyle for her family, included, husbands return to school), I’m the doctor (I was expected to be a writer), and my brother the artist (amply supported by my mother, and having success in his field), and we all seem to have equal amounts of angst.</p>
<p>I see this constantly with the kids in sports and the arts. When our son was younger and would talk this way (when he was about 13) I would say, “Follow your dreams, sure, but get an education and have a PLAN B!” It never ceases to amaze me how parents’ egos get in the way in childrearing. It used to upset me but I’m so used to it now that it doesn’t really phase me anymore. The worst combo is parents’ ego and $$…deadly…</p>
<p>Following your dream is fantastic. In my early twenties I did it too, for a while, traveling all over the world, trying to write and being very bohemian. But when I had to start supporting myself without a degree, I quickly realized I wasn’t going to get very far professionally. Fast forward 30 years, without my teaching career and the pension, retirement savings, and health benefits I have earned through it, I would be looking at a very dire old age. I also wouldn’t be able to be paying for my D’s undergraduate degree so she can start her life debt-free. I write in my free time.
I’m not forcing my D into any pre-professional major. When she was in high school, music looked like the way she would go, until she saw how tiny her chances of turning professional or supporting herself would be. Even getting a job as a high school music teacher is difficult- music and arts programs are the first to be cut. She decided herself not to go into music. If she had, I would have supported her decision, but she sees all the other very good trumpet players who are now graduating and have no next step except to cobble together a career with occasional gigs and lessons, and she doesn’t regret her choice not to “follow her dream”. She still plays for fun in the symphonic band.
When all is going well with your job and your health, you think you can work forever and support your kids until they get on their feet. But anything can happen. They might end up supporting you! Trust me, anything can happen. It never hurts to have a skill or certificate or diploma that makes you employable.</p>
<p>I think that CC is often a strange bubble of alternative reality. In my real world I honestly only know one parent who has loudly proclaimed that they have been able to provide their child with a loan free college education. The rest of us are gluing together a workable way to get them through that includes loans, grants, extra jobs, selling the family heirlooms (well, not yet) etc.</p>
<p>If I was able to write a check for the whole nut, I would still think it is my child’s life and decision as to what to pursue. Whether they are going to be able to provide the same for their own child just wouldn’t figure in at that point. One bridge at a time. </p>
<p>That kid that wanted to go help AIDS patients before med school? Seriously, the parents would pay for a vacation but put their foot down on the Aids thing? I just don’t get that.</p>
<p>I would also like to mention that there is no guarantee in any field in the current economy. Everything is a crap shoot. One of the fields with the most projected growth over the next decade is the arts. Read Daniel Pink’s “A Whole New Mind”.</p>
<p>I know a National Merit Finalist who graduated from UVa with an architecture degree, went to school to be a pastry chef, got married (fabulous cake BTW), and currently is writing a fantasy novel. She isn’t yet thirty.</p>
<p>There’s a difference b/c supporting your kids by not undermining them and indulging them. Ok that the parents of the Asian musician chose to w/d financial support - - it’s their money. Likewise, it is D’s life, and if she wants to forego a higher salary (and its concommitent amenities) in favor of career she lovers - - fine. Brow-beating D and forcing her into a field in which she had not interest is unreasonable. </p>
<p>Too many young people want to follow their dream - - but on the parents’ dime (no evid that was the case w/ the Asian woman).</p>
<p>"I think that CC is often a strange bubble of alternative reality. In my real world I honestly only know one parent … able to provide their child with a loan free college education. The rest of us are gluing together a workable way to get them through …</p>
<p>If I was able to write a check for the whole nut, I would still think it is my child’s life and decision as to what to pursue. Whether they are going to be able to provide the same for their own child just wouldn’t figure in at that point. One bridge at a time."</p>
<p>I don’t disagree, but all MY realities seem to crash together on CC.</p>
<p>I don’t know anybody who can pay either; I’m certainly first in my family (if we work a lot and forgo vacations and AID’s missions), and maybe the last. That’s not something to contemplate? Even in the privacy of the parents forum, in between the “follow your dream” and the “it’s not fair” threads??</p>
<p>If it makes you feel any better, Shrinkrap, I think in reality the actual difference between full pay families (whose students may well be offered merit/incentive money to come to College X) and what families who are <em>significantly</em> broker cough up in loans from gov’t and primarily cash out of pocket is probably around 10 - 15K per year in many cases.</p>
<p>I’m thinkibg more about my kids being able to pick a school without being limited by financial aid or merit. This was EVERYTHING for my “B boy” (pun intended… assuming you know what a B boy is…). </p>
<p>Us parents THINK about it, just like we think about their majors, but we try not to make it a bigger deal than it should be depending on what we know about our kids.Different things are important to each of them.</p>
<p>I temper my husbands beliefs, but truth be told, he came from SO little, came SO far, and works SO hard… I just can’t ignore the… implications (not the word I’m looking for) of that, especially in the context of the whole “URM” thing…</p>