USC class of 2023 Applicants Thread

Colleges & Universities University of Southern California
1401

@southswell

To be very specific… the indictment suggests the following:

Singer directed payments of an alleged $350,000 to a private soccer club owned by Khosroshahin and Janke for designating four students as recruits for the USC women’s soccer team even though none of them played competitive soccer.

Singer allegedly made private school tuition payments for Vavic’s own children under the guise of a scholarship in exchange for a commitment to designate students as recruits in the future.

Heinel allegedly accepted a total of $1.3 million into USC bank accounts she controlled between 2014 and 2018. That account was typically used for the Women’s Athletic Board.

There was a email conversation described by the FBI where Singer and Janke communicated about a prospective student being designated as a crew recruit. Singer provided a “falsified list of regattas” to be placed on the student’s application and a photo to be provided to create a profile.

Singer began a “sham consulting agreement” that paid Heinel $20,000 a month beginning in July 2018.

Vavic designated two students as water polo recruits and a bank account – which funded Vavic’s USC water polo team – allegedly received $250,000 as a result.

Heinel allegedly received between $50,000 and $100,000 per student designated as an prospective student-athlete recruit. The FBI states she did this for more than two dozen students, which had fabricated athletic credentials and did not even play sports.

As I have suggested before… the indictment itself and many news accounts suggest that more than 24 students may have been admitted under false or misleading circumstances from 2014 to 2018. While the indictment mentions many other schools, aside from just USC, you seem to want to infer that the majority of all bribery cases have to be tied to USC. But the indictment itself does not indicate such. I am not trying to downplay the importance of any of this. Clearly, even one such case is too many. But no news reporting service - nor the indictment itself - has tried to suggest that it was 400+ cases… as your post above tries to suggest… (stating: “The federal indictment indicates that SInger was involved in at least 800 known bribery scams which based on his pattern of behavior/connections seems to indicate that majority of the fraudulent admits may have involved USC.”) If true, that would be even more tragic. But no one has stated such yet as best I can tell. But whether it is only 24+ or 400+ as you seem to want to infer, the damage is still severe and unacceptable. And hopefully USC has taken all necessary corrective steps to make sure that such will not happen again in the future.

1402

@WWWard Noticed that you deleted your own false post claiming that USC fraud admit was only 2 in 40,000. You then needlessly argue that I have my facts wrong despite the federal indictment showing that there were almost 800 instances of fake admissions. I think you should consider apologizing for your unnecessary attacks to other commentators who disagree with your opinions.

Now this from LA TImes:

“Of the 32 parents named in the FBI affidavit filed in U.S. District Court in Boston, more than half stand accused of conspiring to bribe their way into USC. Other universities, including Georgetown, Stanford, the University of San Diego and Yale, were also ensnared in the criminal enterprise run by consultant William “Rick” Singer, but the
misconduct alleged involving USC dwarfs all other schools.”

1403

@WWWard Page 13 of the FBI investigator’s affidavit states the following about the COOPERATING WITNESS -1 (“CW-1”) regarding the number of time the fake admission method was used:

"CW-1 described the scheme to CAPLAN in the June 15, 2018 call, during which CW-1 represented to CAPLAN that he

had successfully engaged in the same scheme with nearly 800 other families"

You @WWWard can speculate how many of those 800 fraud admissions was related to USC but I will bet that it is more than 2 like you suggested. Whatever number of fraud USC admits turns out to be, there is a major problem with institutional control at USC. Based on this, students and parents have a right to question the system and meritocracy of the admission process at USC.

1404

Let’s all stop perseverating over the scandal. As many have noted, the use of money and connections to legally influence admission has been and will continue to be prevalent. But let’s not forget that the likelihood that such conduct or the illegal conduct revealed in the last couple of days has no real effect on the admission of you or your kid. Stop seizing on that as an excuse or an easy scapegoat to rationalize why you or your kid did not get admitted to their dream school. Bottom line, it is crazy hard to get admitted to the top schools and the use of influence, legal or illegal has no real effect on the chances of admission.

1405

I’ll admit it’s very disheartening to learn of the scandal itself as well see the conflict that it causes. I was the only person at my school that applied to USC and I got a ton of questions today.

How are other applicants dealing with the news? How are you keeping busy until decisions are released (probably delayed too) and taking this into account?

1406

@southswell First of all… I have not deleted any posts. You cannot delete posts after the editing period has expired anyhow as best I can tell. And I made no such posting emphasizing a USC fraud admit rate of 2 in 40,000. I do not mind a normal discourse with you or anyone, but please stick to the relevant facts and do not quote me inaccurately. There is no point in falsely accusing anyone here on CC of anything to further your own agenda. For the record… I said it was at least 24 cases documented from 2014-2018. I never said it was only 2.

Next… while the federal indictment may have detailed a # of instances of fake admissions nationwide involving fraud against a number of universities, it does not suggest that USC was the victim of the majority of such instances. That was your inference alone. While you do cite a quote from the LA Times indicating that more than half of 32 parents attempted to defraud USC… more than half of 32 is 16+. 16+ does not equate to the 400+ cases of fraud that you are trying to attach to USC exclusively. The indictment involves much more than just the bribery cases related to athletic recruitment. It also involves fraud related to test scores.

And I am not attacking you or anyone else. I am merely defending the reality of things and the primary purpose of CC. In case you have not noticed it, you are on the USC applicants thread. While you and others may deem it a place for rants against USC or for speculation about USC’s complicity in the fraud perpetuated against it by others, that is not what this forum is actually for. Feel free to create your own thread for such purposes or start posting on the threads dedicated to the topic of the fraud cases.

@glasshalffull123 I understand that you may be relatively new to CC, but some of us have been here trying to be helpful for many years. Of course posters can respectfully bring up any concerns about USC or ask questions or make comments. As I have said many many times… post at will. But that does not also mean that false or misleading narratives, especially those from brand new members who only show a pattern of those type posts, must then go unchallenged or face no commentary in response. I personal do not deem myself a gatekeeper, nor have I called anyone names. You and many others have stated your opinions and concerns… and myself and many others have offered our thoughts in response. That is the nature of CC. Every year, new posters emerge to decry USC on numerous fronts. Most do not generally have the benefit of first-hand or even second-experience. They have their own agendas. But this is your forum as much as it is anyone else’s. So post at will.

@CaptainRonnie Exactly. Well said.

On a different note… USC is at least stating today that the current students admitted via fraud and deception could be facing severe penalties. So that is of course good news.

1407

@WWWard

This is your quote stating that only 2 of 45,000 students were fraud admits:

“And speaking of small percentages, 2 out of 45,000+ (in terms of current USC students overall) is a very small % indeed. 99.9956% of all USC students are not involved and should not be connected with some irresponsible actions on the part of a set of fraudulent and deceptive parents.”

Based on the foregoing, I informed you that your mathematical analysis of the fraudulent student admit ratio might be grossly understated…my observation turns out to be true. There was no referenced to the actual amount of USC fraud admits whatsoever…400 USC fraud admit number is your own speculation.

1408

No one coming out of any elite school will ever be viewed the same way again. It doesn’t matter whether you really were a top student or not. Everyone coming out of the schools will be viewed with skepticism. Does anyone really think Chelsea Clinton was the very best and absolutely met Stanford’s ideals? Same with the Bush twin who went to Yale. People will question all of the people with degrees from these schools now. Overnight, an elite degree is worth way less than it was last week.

1409

Most of these elite schools receive the benefit of self selection by high performing applicants. The schools then received the accolades when these high performing students go on to accomplish/have notable careers. It would be a true measure of elite status schools if it obtain its reputation for not training the national elite, but demonstrate the ability to train an elite, rather than simply selecting it.

1410

I have a son at USC on an academic scholarship and a son who applied and is waiting to hear from more than one school on the “admission scandal’s list of elite schools.” I can honestly say that the one who is at USC now has had an amazing experience. He has been offered so many opportunities with professors, internships, and summer programs. We are proud of the fact that he 100% earned his spot at the school. The one who is anxiously awaiting decisions will have also earned a spot wherever he ends up. The truth of the matter is that there are so many great students and athletes who have worked their tales off for the chance to to be considered for admission at USC and many other top tier universities. I know there are a few parents who try to game the system, call in favors, etc, but the kids who do earn their spots will be more successful as contributing members of society because they have learned that they have to work for it. Best of luck to all you hardworking students who are awaiting the fruits of your recent labor. Don’t get discouraged. There is a spot for you at a good school. If USC ends up being that school for you, you will have a great experience and will grow tremendously during your tenure. Fight on!

1411

Good luck in your second round @aaamomo3! Agree the opportunities are endless. Mine have had so many partners in their education that really care about them, rather than simply being professors, and so many options for research, so I totally relate to your comments.

As a reminder to folks, there is a great active thread on the college scandal in the College Admissions:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/2130479-feds-uncover-admissions-test-cheating-plot-p1.html

1412

Good luck to everyone over the next two weeks!

I see UCLA results are out soon. Oh I remember this time well…sooo nerve wracking. Good news is UCLA is a master at getting the results out really efficiently, especially considering the figures they work with! @10s4life do you have a release date/time confirmed over there yet? I read through your 2023 thread but got mixed messages. Looks like you are holding down the fort over there.

For those of you fortunate enough to have the choice between USC and UCLA - best of luck in your decision! Been there done that. Both great schools, choose the one that touches your soul when you visit and is financially viable for your family. Rest up those fingers for the constant portal checking over the next week or two. :slight_smile:

1413

@southswell Ugh… your inaccuracy & selective / edited quotes are becoming truly astonishing. To be clear in my last and final reply to you…

In post #1292, I referenced that from what I can tell less than 100 applicants to various schools spread out over many years were involved in this fraud scheme. That was based on reporting of 30-50 parents being indicted.

In post #1302, I then stated that… “Today’s revelations highlighted at least 24 improper admissions over a five year span… but that was also out of a total pool of 44K+ admissions during that 5 year span. Basically… that’s around 5/10000ths of one percent. Hardly an epidemic. And to USC’s credit, they quickly fired all named employees today.”

In post #1312, I again mentioned that 24 or so students were admitted directly into USC from 2014 - 2018 fraudulently.

It was repeated again in posts #1322 and #1333.

In post #1341, I finally said “As for USC’s involvement, I am presently only aware of two current students tied to this scandal, and they could clearly face retribution from the university as they clearly knew that they were not crew athletes. Their applications were thus fraudulent. And speaking of small percentages, 2 out of 45,000+ (in terms of current USC students overall) is a very small % indeed. 99.9956% of all USC students are not involved and should not be connected with some irresponsible actions on the part of a set of fraudulent and deceptive parents.” I emphasized clearly that I am presently only aware of two current students tied to the scandal (Lori’s two daughters). If there are others, I was not aware of them. But I did not say as you wish to imply that only two got in fraudulently over that five year span. In fact, to the contrary, I repeatedly have stated that at least 24 were from 2014-2015. I even referenced that I said my piece in detail at post #1333 on page 89 of this thread, doing so within the very post #1341 that you partially quoted from.

Look… I can see that you are all about being argumentative… and that is fine. 100s of you have popped up and then eventually vanished across CC over the past few years. But if so… at least take the time to read all of the relevant posts and then quote accurately. Again… there is no need to misquote people in an effort to further your own agenda.

And 400 USC fraud admits was not my speculation. You stated in post #1383… “The federal indictment indicates that SInger was involved in at least 800 known bribery scams which based on his pattern of behavior/connections seems to indicate that majority of the fraudulent admits may have involved USC.” It was your contention that the majority of 800 bribery scams involved USC. That means 400+. Those were your words, not mine.

With this final reply to you, I am now done with you and your posts specifically. You clearer do not truly endeavor to read things carefully or coherently or even recall your own words written just a few hours ago. I see no further point in debating you or engaging with you or defending my words and posts from the likes of you and your 12 mostly negative posts. My 2300+ prior posts here on CC (including 26 Agrees, 1300+ Likes and 455 Helpfuls from fellow members) can suffice to speak for my contributions or accuracy (as you keep wanting to challenge). I will reserve my future commentary and/or advice for those actually engaged in this process for the right reasons.

Take care and best wishes… I hope you truly enjoy your CC experience.

1414

And I too echo @aaamomo3’s sentiments.

1415

@southswell

Here is information that you and some of the other posters who seem to be trying to identify USC as much worse than Yale, Stanford, UCLA, Georgetown, University of Pennsylvania*, and other colleges caught out in admissions scandals might find useful:

A few years back the NY Times published a comprehensive study about how some colleges have more students from the top 1% than the bottom 60%. (Note: at the time, top 1% were families with annual incomes of $630K and higher).

The colleges with high concentrations of 1 percenters included Wash U. (21.7% of the students from the top 1% and only 6.1% from the bottom 60%), Middlebury (22.8% from top 1%, 14.2% from the bottom 60%), and among those named in this scandal: Stanford (17.5% from the top 1%, 18.6% from the bottom 60%), Yale (18.7% from the top 1%, 16.3% from the bottom 60%), Georgetown (20.8% from the top 1%, 13.5% from the bottom 60%) and University of Pennsylvania (18.7% from the top 1%, 16.5% from the bottom 60%).

Remember, it is parents from the 1% who had the money to hire this sleazy admissions consultant. So how many students at USC are from the 1%?

At USC only 13.9% of the students are from the top 1%, while a much higher %, 21.9%, come from the bottom 60%. That tells you that far more than at other so-called elite private colleges, at USC the % of very rich students is relatively low. That means not only can you rest assured that the majority – at least 86% – got in on merit, but you can also know that USC has made a concerted effort to recruit top students who are low-income, middle-income, and regular upper middle class students whose families might be able to afford a private college tuition but not expensive bribes (or donating buildings) to get in. And students who are lucky enough to attend are more likely to meet students from all backgrounds who earned their admissions.

(For the record, both UCLA and Berkeley have much smaller percentages of students from the top 1% but they are public universities. The two notable private universities who have even fewer students from the top 1% than USC are MIT (5.7% from the top 1%, 23.4% from the bottom 60%) and U. of Chicago (10% from the top 1%, 24.5% from the bottom 60%). And certainly if you prefer a college where there are fewer students whose parents could have bribed or donated their way in, MIT and Chicago are good bets. )

*University of Pennsylvania’s former Men’s Basketball Coach was just sentenced for accepting money in exchange for designating a so-so 5’8" high school basketball player as a recruit and the student got into Wharton on his recommendation. That’s a separate scandal that no one really noticed when it happened.

There were definitely more USC people involved but one of them seemed to be involved in helping one of the two students who got into Yale (by helping create the false soccer profile for her family). Also, since there are 2 or 3 x as many freshmen admitted to USC, the fact that more got in via a criminal enterprise doesn’t mean those students comprise a significantly larger percentage of the class.

1416

Will USC decisions really be delayed??

1417

I don’t think so because they still have over a week to review/double check applications, and they only really have to focus on the athletes.

I think one of the reasons USC had more people involved was just because of the fact that Singer and his “foundation” were located in Southern California, so he had more access/ability to bribe USC coaches compared to other colleges.

1418

I agree with @batatachal. I think they will get out on time - universities are competing for the best students and it doesn’t help to be the last one to get out your results, and they know this. While a lot of kids have a top choice and it may not matter when it arrives, there are situations where if a kid has a week longer to ponder a university acceptance they have in hand, it may give them time to emotionally invest in the school that accepts them first. Those early USC scholarship notifications aren’t just to be courteous. They want to get some of the best early.

1419

Please move the scandal conversation to another thread. It is important but this thread has a specific purpose. Thank you.

1420

@WWWard Not to belabor the issue but this thing is starting to get a bit murkier for USC. The father of the two girls “on the crew team” was seen at international events with the Athletic Director and one of the “crew” girls spent Spring Break on the yacht of the Chairman of USC’s Board of Trustees, Only smoke and no fire? Perhaps? But that is a lot of folks close to this family that excelled so much in crew. I expect applicants this year are going to sweat it out longer than otherwise due to Varsity Blues as I expect every acceptance is being reviewed especially those that involve the Athletic Department, an inept department where most of the blame seems to be. They have hired two straight figureheads to be AD rather than career professionals in that area.
I would also add that this involves three current employees and not two as there is a Professor on the paying end of this event.
Of course, it should be a compliment to those that got in the right way that folks were willing to pay a half million and more just to be allowed to go to USC and that it it hard enough that even a tenured Professor who was an alum had to pay someone off to get their child in.
I also question why the CORRUPT College Board is not getting more negative coverage as this is not the first time their system has been abused. The College Board claims to be a “non-profit” with over three dozen employees making $350,000 a year and up.

Personally, I am glad my son is in a STEM field. If someone gets in the wrong way in STEM they are usually filtered out quickly because of the courseload. I am still glad he chose USC and that it chose him. He is challenged and loves the variety of new friends he has. I agree with you that only a few got through the wrong way but on the heels of other scandals this hurts and allows false cliches about USC to be perpetuated.