Our S has transitioned well from bank of mom and dad and hasn’t had our help financially since we put down his deposit in his first place after graduation.
You got this–you will be just fine! You and our kids are lucky that you have a strong safety net, just in case it is needed, while you build your emergency fund and resources.
Merged two identical threads
Am I the only one a little flabbergasted that a 24 year old woman is making coupons for chores for her dad?
I’m not saying this to be snarky; when I read it I was struck by the fact that she’s trying to be a grownup, but she really doesn’t know how. She has SO far to go just in changing how she thinks and approaches the world.
^This. I almost feel bad for her because I think it was done to her (maybe not even for her) whether intentional or not. At some point, its all about control.
No, it doesn’t flabbergast me. I could see my kids doing that and I think it’s sweet and endearing. Ok, the dad may have gone overboard, but she clearly wants him to be proud of her and she feels bad that she came across to him as entitled and she clearly wants to get his respect and do what’s right. She’s sheltered and a little naive, that’s all. She may have lived a nice lifestyle but she appears to have taken her studies reasonably seriously - this isn’t someone who majored in partying and beer pong or who is into drugs or whatever. I think you guys are being a little harsh. There are a lot of generous fathers who are motivated by wanting perfect lives for their princesses and the motivation is out of love, even if it winds up undercutting their independence. There are a lot worse sins that parents can do. The father is imperfectly signaling “I love you but the gravy train has to end” and the daughter is imperfectly signaling that she knows this, but isn’t quite sure how to proceed. That’s ok. They’ll get through it. Are we going to help her figure out a way forward, or just mock?
MotherofDragons - I could easily see my 23 yo’s making coupons. I don’t mean literally out of construction paper and macaroni and glitter, but sure, I could easily see a Fathers Day gift of “I’ll wash and vacuum out your car” or “let’s get ice cream together at the local dairy, my treat, just the 2 of us.” And frankly my H would treasure those far, far more than anything that could be bought in a store. What do you expect this girl to do - buy her father something? He likely has everything he needs and then some.
Yes, you need to work out a complete financial plan. Look at the job offers, research the cost of living in those areas. Work out a budget for food, entertainment, utilities, rent, car payment, cell phone, loan payment and see what is left. There are tons and tons of sites to help you do this. Download some basic tools if you don’t use them already like quicken or mint or something that helps you get an idea of how to track money. Track what you spend now even though it’s not “your” money yet. That will at least give you an idea of what you are spending on clothes, dining out, movies, etc. When you compare those salary offers don’t forget to factor in that taxes, medicare and SSI will be withheld. Hopefully as you start to weigh the offers, the cost of living for where they are, combined with the offer and what appeals to you the most will really help you narrow it down relatively easily. The general rule of thumb is not to spend more than 25-30% of your income on rent. That is the kind of apartment you “should” be living in if you want to become independent. Add in utilities and you are up to 35%. In a high cost of living area that could be different, people living in cities where rents are steep might dedicate as much as 50 percent to rent payments, but they must typically give up something else in order to do so. A 50/30/20 budget suggests that you should give 50 percent of your income to necessities (food, rent, utilities), 30 percent to discretionary spending – the fun things – and 20 percent to savings or paying down debts. In theory, this, too, can increase what you can comfortably spend on rent if you move some of that discretionary 30 percent over to the necessities column.
I would say that the vast vast majority of college graduates do not actually have 30% left for discretionary spending. I will also say that while your Dad’s income is quite high, depending on the cost of living where he is based, it may not go as far as folks think, I do agree with that point.
While I commend your dad for supporting you the way he has, he’s left you really in the dark about what life costs and how to manage it yourself. You can do this but it will take some homework on your end.
The risk you run if you don’t do this now, prior to that first lovely paycheck, is taking it and spending it on fun things and then continuing a pattern that will not help you get to eventual independence. Clearly your dad will not cut you off cold immediately but is gently suggesting you start to take over and you are trying to figure out how to do that. Unfortunately you need to start with some serious basics to then understand how to move forward.
FYI, I do think it’s sweet that you made coupons.
I agree with @eandesmom, you should start thinking about the future, where you will live, and start figuring out the real numbers living on your own might mean. For example, you are getting a masters in publicity, so you should be able to figure out roughly what an entry level position with a master’s degree would pay in the field in the areas you might be living in. There are plenty of sites out there with employment data, so it shouldn’t be too hard to get a number, perhaps the median, as a basis for estimating things. As has been said, that salary might appear to be decent, but you have to remember your take home will be a lot lower, as a young person you won’t have a lot of deductions, so will be paying a bit more in taxes.
From there, you can start looking at housing in the area you likely will be looking for a job, and figure out things like how much it will cost to rent an apartment (it is why a lot of young people have roommates, it can be cheaper to share than getting a studio or one bedroom). Factor into that where the job is located, where the potential affordable apartments are, and commuting costs (if any). You might find that your idea of that luxury apartment in the trendy area (if that is what you were thinking of) may not be doable, you might find that a job that seems to pay a lot more may leave you worse off, because to work there and have a reasonable commute, you would be paying a lot more in rent. Sometimes living in a city area can be cheaper than another area, if you live in an area where you don’t have to own a car, that can save you a lot of money.
It will come down to options, and you will have to weigh them. The earlier you do that, the better, it will come up on you fast, and you don’t want to be scrambling after graduation to figure these things out.
Another option might be to live with your family for a while, to allow you some room to figure out where to live, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, if you do that, I strongly recommend at least offering to pay something in rent, to establish that you want to be independent, even if it is nominal, it is establishing that line. If your dad refuses that, then take the money you would be spending on rent at home, and save it, so you won’t be tempted to spend it. That money when you decide to move out can be used for a security deposit, moving costs, getting stuff for the apartment, etc. And again, it is to get you into the mindset that you will be supporting yourself.
Whenever you decide to move out on your own, your dad may try to be heavily involved in the process, but I strongly recommend you keep him out of it. From the description of your dad, he is really generous, which is great, but he might be strongly tempted, for example, to have you get an apartment that is way too upscale for what you could reasonable afford on your own, for example, insisting you get your own place rather than consider sharing an apartment, or in a more upscale area. Dad’s are protective, especially with daughters, and I am sure he would want you to have ‘the very best’, but that would just reinforce your dependency on him. If he does want to help financially, then I would strongly encourage finding an apartment that you would barely be able to afford, and for a given time he helps with the rent, so you wouldn’t be struggling. If he does this, it should be for a period of time (maybe a year), to allow you to get your feet, and hopefully be making enough after a year to be able to afford it on your own.
Speaking only for myself as a parent, the thing that most makes me proud of my son is that he has consistently made more and more of his own decisions, and while he is financially dependent on us, will be for a while, he has always tried to minimize that dependence on us, is grateful for what we gave us but often is in the position of telling us no with things we offer to do for him. I think showing that you want to step out on your own, on your own two feet, will in the end make him as proud of you as anything:)
You have already gotten really good advice. Becoming financially independent is always daunting, whenever it happens. It is also very rewarding. I started supporting myself at the age of 18 and I lived like the stereotypical poor student (although I did have a very modest used car). Shared a house with roommates, ate a lot of mac and cheese and ramen noodles, etc. With 40 job offers on the table and a graduate degree, you won’t have to resort to that!
Yes, once you know your salary, set a budget and BE CONSERVATIVE. Once you deduct annual taxes, regular paycheck deductions, health plan, etc., I would then set aside 25% of your projected salary for discretionary spending/savings/investment. A cushion to cover the unexpected or any miscalculations on your part is a wise move. The balance can be apportioned among food, bills, gas, car payment, phone payment, cable, utilities, etc.
Don’t compromise safety but do make sure that your rent is affordable and don’t go for the maximum that you might be able to afford.
If you need help, there are apps and on-line resources. Good luck and I applaud you for your goal of a more independent life.
I expect her to start behaving like an adult.
One way would be give the keys back to her dad and ask to start the process again from a more adult perspective. THAT would impress me way more than offering to vacuum out the car.
@Aollie24 - I see you have apologized to your father. It was difficult to follow the 2 separate threads.
Giving back the keys makes little sense. They signed a lease, they have to make he payments anyway. I think you are in the minority on this one, MoD. It really is the thought that counts, the symbolism of demonstrating acknowledgement, respect, appreciation, love, and that she finally gets it. Once she starts working and living via her own income (less part of the car of course, since that is a done deal), that is how she will demonstrate that she has learned to live like an adult. In the meantime until she finishes school, I think you are being a bit unrealistic.
Her father WANTS to do nice things for her. There is a way to accept those gratefully and graciously and still move towards independence. Giving back the keys is a silly suggestion, and hurtful to boot.
^^We’ll have to agree to disagree. I think talk is cheap; it’s behavior that matters to me.
You can say you feel bad about something all day long, but until you start behaving differently, nothing changes.
In this case, going back to the dealership with the dad after having an adult conversation about what the true needs are with regards to a car is very symbolic. It may cost the dad more out of pocket, but in terms of having a good outcome with a financial decision with the OP, it’s symbolically valuable.
Instead of having the memory of his 24 year old daughter throwing a fit at the dealership, he’ll have the memory of his appreciative adult daughter working WITH him on a more reasonable outcome.
@MotherOfDragons - that ship has sailed. There is no reason to return the car. Rather, once the OP graduates this May, and begins working, she can assume all responsibilities for the costs and upkeep of the car. She can find an appropriately priced apartment, possibly with a roommate(s) and assume those costs as well. When the lease term expires, she may find it more prudent to purchase or lease (a lease can be a reasonable decision at a particular time) a less expensive car. Car costs eat up a large percentage of a young person’s income. It is a valuable lesson to learn.
What is done is done. It is the path forward which matters.
For crying out loud, maybe this thread has gone off the rails because it was merged from two, but I don’t understand why adults are beating up on a kid (yes, 24 is still a kid in my book) who has demonstrated contrition and is trying to learn how to be a better daughter and responsible adult.
She is the product of her upbringing (something I’m sure Dear Dad has acknowledged to himself). She’s trying to do better. Why attack her for her honesty and transparency in seeking advice?
^^The fact that you see my advice as “attacking” and I see it as common sense advice speaks to the fact that there is an enormous spectrum of parenting out there. I’m not saying my way is better, but I’m not deriding your approach, either.
Nor am I inferring that just because someone’s opinion is in the minority that it somehow has less value.
I’ve seen both wealth and poverty, and I’ve seen how parents react to both situations positively and negatively. At the end of the day, your behaviors define you. While I applaud the fact that she realizes she may have crossed the line way over into spoiled brathood with her recent behavior, what she chooses to DO with that in any true, mature manner remains to be seen, in my opinion.
Let’s hope for the best!
Wow. Parenting certainly does differ, but IMO that is simply absurd. To me it sends the message “Let me really teach you how little money means to this family. We can literally just burn about $15,000!!” More if the lease is longer than three years. Very expensive symbolism, and I don’t think most people think it symbolizes what you seem to think it does anyway. I can tell you with 99% certainty that a Dad who didn’t want them to know his income so he could get a better deal and that didn’t like the aggressive approach at the GM dealership isn’t going to see it the way you do.
You can pooh-pooh words and smaller gestures all you want, but sometimes people are smart enough to know when they mean more than anything else a person can do at that time. Sure it has to be followed up by consistent behavior. Telling your Dad you don’t care that you are wasting >$15,000 of his money because you insist on an action that proves nothing at this point wouldn’t show to me that she had leaned any adult judgement at all.
@Aollie24 - I didn’t read all the responses but I wanted to commend you on being sensitive to the dynamics going on in the relationship between you and your dad.
I’m wishing peace and clarity for you, and a wonderful life. You can handle it!
You might want to read some books about how to have healthy boundaries with people, including your parents. It might help you to have a good “true north” feel for what is healthy and what isn’t. This launch into real adult life is a great time to do it.
Sending you good vibes!
^^It doesn’t cost $15k to change a lease. While my personal philosophy is anti-lease, I’ve seen friends change leases, upgrade, downgrade, purchase and trade leased cars without taking that kind of hit, or anything close to it.
It will cost some money, and if she trades in one lease to lease, say, a Honda Civic, while it won’t be a particularly advantageous move financially on the dad’s part, it will show him his daughter is really trying to be a grownup, and he may go with it.
Or he may say, hey, I really appreciate that you realize what a big deal this lease is, and I appreciate that you feel bad about how it went, but for now, let’s keep the car. You are giving the dad the opportunity to give his daughter a teachable moment.