Vacationing with the boyfriend’s/girlfriend’s family – what’s appropriate?

Parent Cafe
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<p>That is such an odd reading of the situation, oldfort, when there is nothing to suggest that the family looks down on the D. When your kids were 12 and you offered to drive them and their friends to the movies and you gave them all $25 for the movie tickets and popcorn, was it because you thought it was a “hardship” for the other kids to pay for the movies? When you invite people over for a dinner party and you serve steak, is it because you think it’s a “hardship” and these people would never enjoy steak if it weren’t for you?</p>

<p>These people would have offered to pay for the daughter whether she came from a “lesser” financial situation or an “equal” financial situation because they are EXTENDING HOSPITALITY to someone they like. And part of that hospitality is taking care of the cost of the events - whether it’s the hotel room, the meals, the entertainment / activities or the airfare. (And why the airfare is singled out as being a different thing from the rest is beyond me.) What part of that is unclear?</p>

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<p>I think that’s another weird reaction. That wasn’t reducing your D to being someone else’s paid companion. That’s just social talk, another way of expressing “we’d love to have your D join our family in Italy.” BTW, what difference would it have made if it was on a private jet versus commercial? Personally, I’ve never been on a private jet. I certainly wouldn’t deny my kids the chance to experience lifestyles that are “above” ours out of misplaced jealousy. But maybe some people are more insecure about that kind of thing. If my kids ever get invited by rich people to glamorous places, I say more power to everyone involved.</p>

<p>Oldfort, IIRC, you are not from this country? I wonder if there are some cultural issues / differences behind your reaction? Because I sense that you’re upper middle to upper class, and yet your reaction seems very different from most of the other upper middle to upper class posters on here. It seems quite evident to me that the family has no ulterior motive.</p>

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<p>Sorry, cbreeze, I call it like I see it. If you (not you specifically, the generic you) want to “blend in” to people at that level, then you don’t shove unwanted checks in their faces when they’ve explicitly indicated that it would be their pleasure to treat you.</p>

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<p>I’ve taken kids’ friends on vacations a number of times. I NEVER have expected them to pay. The kids bring some discretionary cash so that they can spend some of their own money but anything we do as a family is covered for everyone. My kids have also gone on vacations with others and there has not been the expectation to pay either. If there is that expectation, and, there are times that it could be appropriate, then that should be made clear by the hosts. This occurred once when one of the boys was invited to go abroad with a friend, but it was not really a family deal, and it was one of those things where our son could go if we chose to pay his way. Also, I’ve had kids join us in the middle of vacation or leave at that time, or my kids join another family elsewhere and we have paid the fare to get our son there just as the other family paid for their kids’ transportation.</p>

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<p>Exactly. And there’s nothing wrong with the parents saying that they will spring for the rest if the kid can cover the airfare – and then it’s up to the kid (family) to decide if he wants to spring for the airfare or not. But there’s certainly nothing wrong with the parents saying they’re covering the whole thing, their treat – and it’s a very “off” reaction, IMO, to ascribe negative motivation (“they just want a helper on the trip,” “they just think of my kid as a paid companion,” “they feel sorry for her,” “they’re passing a judgment that she has no money to speak of”) in the absence of other evidence and an even more “off” reaction to think that an appropriate or gracious reaction is to insult their hospitality by shoving money at them.</p>

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<p>OP here. This thread has taken some interesting twists, hasn’t it? Thanks again to everyone who offered their perspective, anecdotes, and suggestions. I’m a bit less grateful for the etiquette/parenting lectures, but I asked for input and input I got. I appreciate the time and thought that went into composing even the more critical responses. My d will join her bf’s family for the full week of their vacation and pay for her own airfare (with a bit of help from us).</p>

<p>I raised the original question because I felt that this gift would be inappropriately expensive. I see that many folks disagree, and it was valuable for me to learn this. But I wonder – is there then no such thing as an inappropriately expensive gift? If this family wanted to give my d a car, a racehorse, or a year’s lease on a nice apartment, would that be okay? Raised in the lower middle class as I was (<em>shudder</em> :rolleyes:), I do believe that there are some gifts one just doesn’t accept from people who aren’t one’s family. </p>

<p>I know some folks from here IRL, so I would like to make a few points clear:</p>

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<li><p>We are not poor. (Really, snooty acquaintance!) $2000 to the boyfriend’s family is most definitely not the equivalent of $50 to us, by which I mean that their net worth is certainly not 40 times ours. We’ve never even qualified for financial aid, forpetessake. </p></li>
<li><p>No rudeness is intended in us paying for a portion of her trip. I think it would be equally rude of the boyfriend’s family to want my d to disregard her family’s values and accept a gift that made her parents uncomfortable. But, of course, “only a fool takes offense where none is intended.” None of us is into that kind of foolishness. (And we’re not waving checks in the other parents’ faces, either. Really.) </p></li>
<li><p>Not that it’s a significant value in our house, but we really aren’t unsophisticated. We may not rise to the standards of sophistication enjoyed by some posters on the thread, of course, but I promise that we don’t stare slackjawed at all the purty, sparkly rich folks when we somehow stumble into a decent restaurant. </p></li>
<li><p>While I have long admired the apparent overwhelming majority of CC kids who are fully independent at the age of 18 and negotiate their lives with zero input or assistance from Mom and Dad (with the exception of that college bill, of course), in my family it is accepted that the letting go process between the ages of 18 and 21 is a gradual one. All of us – the daughter, boyfriend, and both sets of parents – think it’s appropriate that she have her parents’ approval to go on a trip like this. No complaints on that score around here.

Guess I’ll just have to live with that.</p></li>
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<p>I didn’t think for one minute that you were poor or that your D was unsophisticated. Indeed, she sounds like a lovely girl, and there’s nothing wrong with bringing up the topic. Your point about the racehorse / car / apartment is well taken. My comment was not directed at you personally, and I’m sorry if it was taken that way or if you (or anyone else) was offended. BTW, I fully agree with you that it is entirely appropriate for you (parents) to have input on whether your college age daughter goes on a trip with her boyfriend / boyfriend’s family (leaving the financial issues aside). </p>

<p>I think it’s all in the people. Certainly you know the family more than we do. I can see people who would be offended that the D was trying to push money on them when all they wanted to do was show her a lovely time – but I can also see people who would say, “If it makes you feel more comfortable dear, you can pay for the airfare but you don’t really need to.” Fair enough?</p>

<p>Sorry if I overreacted. Bad day at work. THank goodness CC is here for stress relief!!</p>

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<p>I learn so much on this website. I’ve been lurking on this thread and am surprised by the turn of events. I don’t always agree w/pizzagirl, but I find her posts on this thread thought-provoking and something I’ll kick around in my head a bit. I am really surprised by how some see the invitation as practically an insult.</p>

<p>I guess I find this fascinating because of our own family dynamic. My BIL is quite wealthy and so generous. He is able to buy his mom a new van and all sorts of trappings. When dh and I visit her, we do things like fix her hummingibrd feeder or attach a holder to the front porch for her American flag. We all understand that one person has more money and one person has more time, and none of us feels bad for what we contribute, because we’re all contributing in the way we can. The BIL owns a ranch house that we visit and while there, in appreciation, we do some minor upkeep on the place. We’re thankful they’re so generous, and they’re thankful we’re so helpful. It’s nice. </p>

<p>Just wondering … frazzled, what did you decide?</p>

<p>ETA: Cross-posted with frazzled. Thanks for the update.</p>

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<p>OP - we often have heated discussions on CC and we do divert from the original topic sometimes (or OP). Some comments here were not directed at you, even though you started the thread. It is something to get used to. Pizzagirl and I don’t agree on this topic (I could see her side also), but anything I’ve said, or even what she said, were really not personal to you.</p>

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<p>And FYI, today’s Oprah is about class and downward mobility. It’s a repeat. It’s a very interesting show.</p>

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<p>frazzled, I wish your lovely daughter all the best, bon voyage, and hope she has a wonderful trip.</p>

<p>And in true CC style, because this is where I learned it, I think I’d like to continue to belabor the point (even though frazzled has made the decision and moved on) until every poster’s fingers fall off with overuse and we all just agree to disagree ad nauseum.</p>

<p>So. GA2012mom:

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<p>That is probably the most true thing that could be said about OP’s D. However, that is not what he/she said was the reason they wanted her along. OP said that they wanted D to go so the son wouldn’t pull a long face the entire time, and besides she entertains the children and cleans the house. It’s at that point I get my dander up. If the inviter said that about my daughter, I would want her to distance herself from this family. Why, because what the OP wrote in the original post sure makes it look like the inviter (the potential mother-in-law-to-be) has ulterior motives.</p>

<p>I have been on both sides of this issue, as the ‘more advantaged’ or ‘less advantaged’ inviter or invitee, and so have my kids. We have always been around people wealthier than us, and less well-off. There have been many invitations, but no “reason” was ever given for the invitation.</p>

<p>One example was when we invited one of our sons’ hs gf on a skiing trip to the Alps. There was no way their family could afford “her portion” or anything like that. Son invited her and spoke to her parents. I spoke to her mother and gave no “reason” for the invite. I just said that my son would like her to go, told her what the arrangements were, and said she would need x amount of Euros for her lift ticket and anything else she wants to buy and told them to think it over and let us know. C’est tout. There was no back-and-forth about the cost or justification. She went, the kids had a great time. </p>

<p>Not sure there is any point to that story above, but putting myself in the situation of the BF’s mother, she is seriously gauche in kvelling about this young lady cleaning their house.</p>

<p>Sorry, frazzled, to give the impression that you mentioned in your point #4, I only brought it up because I wondered why she wanted you to give the final okay. Every kid does things in his/her own time, and it’s lovely that your d wants you to help her make this decision. A lot of people (self included) would love it if their kids asked their advice before deciding to get shot out of a cannon or whatever!</p>

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<p>frazzled, I am with you on this. There is absolutely nothing insulting about preferring to pay one’s own airfare and the other family should have no problem with that. To imply that the parents of the BF might be or should be offended by this is absurd. If the relationship is not to the point where the OP or her D feel it is appropriate to have the BFs family pay for an expensive trip, that is more than good enough reason to insist on paying your own way. Personally, I would want to be able to deal with transportation on my end, without involving anyone else. Maybe this is unlikely, but stranger things have happened - let’s just say I would never want my D to feel stranded in such a situation. </p>

<p>On another note, I have always felt that it is not usually such a good idea for parents to get too involved and invested (no pun intended) in the relationships of kids at this young age , no matter how great the GF or BF. So a trip would not be something I would ever offer on the other end, notwithstanding my ability to pay or my personal feelings about the GF or BF. Of course, I treat the kids significant others with a great deal of warmth,and invite them and welcome them to my home. But they <em>aren’t</em> yet family, nor do I want to put myself in the position of being too much a part of their relationship. Too often kids feel that a break up would affect an entire extended family and are influenced by that, even subconsciously. I know a lot of people don’t agree and are more casual about things, today - I don’t see mine as a conservative viewpoint, so much as a pragmatic one. </p>

<p>On a selfish note, I don’t want to have to do the digital equivalent of ripping up or hiding pictures of past family vacations when the future spouse really does comes along, LOL (kidding)!</p>

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<p>OP, come to think of it, my Mom used to always insist I have some mad money whenever I went out and now your D would have her own form of mad money, especially when she will be far from home.</p>

<p>roshke, I agree with you. My father is one of ten children and we have frequent family get togethers with lots of aunts, uncles, cousins. It is an unspoken rule that we never bring any significant others to these functions without being formally engaged first.</p>

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<p>cbreeze, what’s the reason for not including significant others? Is it just an issue with numbers being too high? I would find it sad that our extended family would never get the opportunity to meet my 5 D’s significant others unless they were engaged. My D1 was with her husband for three years prior to getting engaged. I can’t imagine excluding him from any family get together! I feel the same way about our many nieces and nephews and their significant others. What a shame if we had never met any of them.</p>

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<p>alwaysamom, I really don’t know when this unspoken rule started, but all my cousins (over 35 first cousins) just never brought any BF/GF to the big get togethers. Perhaps it will be too confusing, revolving doors of different people cycling in and out. Perhaps it could be the hands-off attitude of some of the parents, that is only bring home those you are serious about.</p>

<p>Since we do have these functions often, we do meet those who are already engaged several times before the wedding. But of course, for those families who live closer, inevitably we get to meet everyone, short term and long term.</p>

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roshke, I am in agreement with you. I have seen the ugly result of a BF/GF breakup soon after an expensive trip (paid for by one set of parents). The only thing everyone agrees with NOW, is that the offer should not have been made. </p>

<p>I don’t understand the need to bring non-family members on a family vacation. Except where a child is constantly in your home and with your family that he/she has virtually become part of your family. I’m from a large family and we believe family is family, friends are friends, friends are not family. I know most of you don’t agree, but that was how I was raised.</p>

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<p>Oh, see, I think there’s more potential for something to go wrong, if the parents are making the reservations for themselves and then the D is making a separate set of reservations. Let’s say there is a delayed flight and they need or want to switch to another flight. But the parents and family are under the mother’s reservation, and she’s a million-mile-frequent flyer, and the D is under her own name. Great, so now the family gets put at the top of the standby list for the next flight and the D is at the bottom so they get separated. No thanks. As a frequent flyer myself, I’ve had enough trouble when my business partner and I travel under separate reservations. <em>That’s</em> one where you want one reservation covering everybody, IMO (even if someone winds up writing a check to someone else).</p>

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<p>I agree completely. Depending on the family dynamic, however, the invitation to accompany on a trip may be a heavy-handed “so, I’m grooming you to be a future in-law and I’ll be devastated if you break up with my son” or simply a “hey, come along and join the fun, just as you’re welcome at our house.” I don’t think it is necessarily one size fits all.</p>

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<p>I’m from a small family. We have the same dysfunctions as everyone else :-). To me, there is nothing “magical” about family members. I’m very close to my sister; OTOH, H has little in common with his sisters other than a last name. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t love them, but they aren’t people he would otherwise choose to hang around, all else being equal (and vice versa) – very different morals, values, goals, priorities. H has a best friend he’s had since childhood. He’s far closer to H than H’s sisters are, and he and his wife are included in every occasion we would invite family members to because, well, he’s essentially the brother H never had. He would fly around the world in a heartbelt for H and vice versa if need be. I can’t say that I could say the same about H’s sisters. You don’t choose your family members. You choose your friends.</p>

<p>I, personally, have never invited my kids’ friends on vacations with us because our personal situation is such that we have preferred our vacations be just the 4 of us only, but if I were to, I don’t think it’s a “need” nor would it be indicative of trying to make relationships be more serious than they are. We are going on vacation this week and we could have easily had our twins each invite a friend along and paid their way and it wouldn’t be anything more than “hey, the more the merrier.” I don’t think it’s necessarily the case that more needs to be read into the offer.</p>

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<p>I went to a school in the same city where my H grew up. When we were dating, I got to meet his family, both immediate and extended (such as it was) at things like Passover, Thanksgiving, etc. Why wouldn’t I have been invited? Heck, before he started dating me, he invited female friends who were just friends, as opposed to dates, for those holidays. Better they go with a guy friend to someone’s house and enjoy a holiday instead of sitting alone in a dorm room. Why the requirement to be formally engaged?</p>

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<p>Right, but you don’t have to form a Deep Lasting Relationship with your cousin’s BF / GF at the get-together … don’t you just have to pass the butter and salt and chit-chat with someone? Does it make a difference if your cousin subsequently breaks up with the person and you never see the person again? </p>

<p>Are these formal events? Or are they informal, backyard BBQ-type things? If the latter, it seems even more that one or two extra people would be no big deal. This is really interesting to me since it’s so different from my own dynamic!!</p>

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<p>“But I wonder – is there then no such thing as an inappropriately expensive gift? If this family wanted to give my d a car, a racehorse, or a year’s lease on a nice apartment, would that be okay?”</p>

<p>No, but the difference, in my view, is that such gifts cannot be understood as hospitality.</p>

<p>There’s an ancient tradition of inviting one’s guests to share in one’s lifestyle for the duration of the visit. This is true in Bedouin tents as well as vacation homes in St. Bart’s. Guests eat the same pita bread or lobster, sleep in the same yurt or palace, and travel on the same camels or Learjets as the hosts. Giving someone valuable property (like a car) that they will use away from the host is quite a different matter, and only appropriate in a very intimate relationship.</p>

<p>However, I don’t think it’s rude at all for the OP’s daughter to say “Thank you so much for the invitation; I’ve talked it over with my parents, and I’ll arrange for my own plane ticket.” Not necessary, but not rude. If you’re more comfortable that way, fine.</p>

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<p>Arranging one’s own plane ticket can hamper the family, though, as in the situation I posted above. Different people are simply at different “levels” in the airline hierarchy and that can make a huge difference if there is a delay or problem. I would not underestimate that esp traveling abroad.</p>