Virginity and Going Away To College

Parent Cafe
41

<p>To all adults posting here, raise your hand if you were a virgin on you wedding day!! I know I didn’t raise my hand and do not consider myself a worse person for it. Neither was my fantastic wife of 35+ years.</p>

<p>Our progeny in college are adults and while we may have an idealized view of them, it is unreasonable to expect them to behave any different from ourselves at that age. Yes, we should have raised them to act responsibly and respectfully of others. However if they are dating someone they deeply care about, the fact that they become sexually intimate should not surprise or disappoint us.</p>

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<p>Sorry if some of this has been said by previous posters; I haven’t read all the posts. And in no particular order:</p>

<p>Sending them with condoms is a pretty good idea, male or female. Why? In spite of best intentions, sometimes “sex happens.” </p>

<p>She needs to move past this guy. Some of the most religious kids I’ve known have girlfriends, date, kiss, etc. I don’t think he’s interested. Or he could be gay. Religion is not a sign that he’s not. </p>

<p>I think one of the most important things, if she wants to wait to have sex, either indefinitely or until she meets someone special, is to tell her what she needs to avoid. Alcohol and drugs decrease impulse control. And once you get literally horizontal with someone, sex becomes much more likely than if you stay vertical. It’s true! </p>

<p>I agree with whoever said that a very good thing to do is to let guys know right up front who she is and what she wants/doesn’t want. </p>

<p>And being commited to remaining drug and alcohol free – I’ve seen that one fall pretty quickly when kids hit college. Not saying that’s true at all for your daughter, who sounds very pure, but I’ve seen it in a lot of kids.</p>

<p>Good luck with everything. I think she will be okay.</p>

43

<p>Perhaps she is just not sure about whether she wants to adhere to her
intention and wants to gauge the mother’s reaction. It seems to me that the main reason she came up with the idea of abstinence is because of what she heard about her family. As much as I respect her decision and hope that a potential suitor will respect it, or even honor it, I think she needs to know, and hear from you, that it is not the end of the world if she does “cave in”
As for finding others like her in college, I say absolutely. She will.</p>

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<p>Well, it’s possible this boy his gay, but his gay former best friend would be about the last person’s commentary I’d believe on the subject. It is more than likely that on some level more or less conscious that he wanted his friend romantically and/or sexually, and felt spurned on some level or could simply see it wasn’t going to happen. Or, as happened with me with gay friend’s I had early on, they wanted on some level (I know in retrospect) to not be odd man out, so they were looking for allies.</p>

<p>There are boys who stymie their desires and will be viewed as either gay or just strange by those who have no notion of why someone would do this.</p>

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<p>I see huge benefits in waiting for the right person, in taking time, in making sure one is really ready. And marriage could well be the thing to wait for. But the picture you paint here – which I understand is borne of your very real experiences – is really bleak to be honest: a family, a grandmother who says you’re as good as dead 'cause you had sex out of wedlock and got pregnant and a man who thinks nothing more of sex than that it’s being similar to going to the bathroom (one could argue that men who are dogs often ultimately think this way, but good guys will respect that it’s not that way for some women). I’d be afraid of looking at intimate moments too on films, if sex held out such possibilities of horror.</p>

<p>Read post #32 by Kristin. It doesn’t have to be that bleak. That’s not to say your daughter needs to adopt the same attitude as Kristin. But clearly she has a head on her shoulders and is having fun sexually at the same time.</p>

<p>The best way for you to guarantee that your daughter does not suffer the same kinds of pain you did is to make sure she’s as fully aware of what the world holds as possible and also to understand that it’s okay for her to have sex before marriage but she has to be really judicious: choose your partner very carefully and make sure it’s about love ideally, but even if it’s not above all in every situation make sure to use protection and make sure the person you’ve chosen as a partner is respectful and not a dangerous person. </p>

<p>In your case, I agree with people who think she (or both of you) may need counseling.</p>

<p>In post #37, Calmom nailed it, in my view. Just re-read her post several times.</p>

<p>Whatapainthisis: You sound like you’re such a great mom whose done so much for your daughter. You have a parent’s natural instinct to want to save your child pain and that’s great. But when she’s out there in the big wide world, she’s going to have to use her own head and respond to her own urges and know that you’ll love her no matter what.</p>

<p>Corranged nailed something when he/she said:</p>

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<p>A lot of the small SUNYs are mostly women and should have several organizations for the purpose of women’s issues…you should check the website. A lot of young women struggle with the issue of defining themselves through their relationship with men; ideally your daughter will be confident in herself before entering into an intimate relationship. Making friends with other self-confident women is key.</p>

46

<p>Well. What an interesting little thread this turned out to be, from such an unpromising beginning. I am torn between calmom’s optimism and corranged’s more hardnosed view. Calmom’s read is much more beautiful, but I have to say that I picked up the same signals corranged did from the OP’s posts. To which I would add the line about the daughter being worried something would happen to her family while she was in college. This sounds like a girl who is having serious cold feet about growing up, in a number of ways.</p>

<p>However, I’m not as pessimistic as corranged, because from what I’ve seen time almost always cures this particular problem.</p>

<p>A couple of further points.</p>

<p>(1) Didn’t I read about some pseudo-group at Harvard that is just what the OP is asking about? (I was never certain whether it was an actual group or a couple of kids with decent media skills.) Called “True Love Waits” or something? I refuse to dignify the whole thing by spending 30 seconds googling it, but I think the OP deserves to know that there IS something like what she was looking for. Even if that has nothing to do with her daughter’s issues, which is what I think.</p>

<p>(2) Contrary to BedHead, I would trust the gaydar of the boy’s gay friend. Sure, maybe he’s indulging in wishful thinking, but that’s not how this kind of conversation has played out in my experience.</p>

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<p>Imo, too much interest and analysis is being devoted to this boy. Pining away for months is unhealthy.</p>

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<p>OK, just correcting my errors. The Harvard group was/is “True Love Revolution.” Apparently they have a facebook page. “True Love Waits” is the creepy granddaddy of abstinence-pledge programs. (Yes, I dignified it by googling.)</p>

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<p>JHS: I am sorry if I gave the impression that I was specifically addressing your #46 (which wasn’t even up when I was writing! :))</p>

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<p>I like someone’s idea of investigating all women schools. Sure, the issue will still be there, but maybe less so.</p>

<p>I know all the abstinence programs aren’t creepy, but that one with the fathers is MORE than creepy. Wow. Yuk.</p>

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<p>Context: I am female. I never held a boy/man’s hand (other than, you know, guiding little siblings across the street and such), kissed, went on a date, or had a boyfriend, until I was 21 (plus several months). None of it. I cared nothing about waiting until marriage, or about some special over-glorified status called “virginity”, for that matter, but I had personal reasons - I did not want to cross any sort of boundary of romantic physical affection - which includes much more than sexual intercourse - with anyone I didn’t love and trust, and I also strongly did not want to do so until I was comfortable with my own level of assertiveness and ability to say no to somebody I cared about.</p>

<p>I lived (by choice) in a dorm and on a hall that were very sexually open - most people had already had sex by the time they were in college, people had no problem making out in public at parties, etc.</p>

<p>I had no problems related to all this. Absolutely none. My hallmates were my friends and respected my choices (my freshman roommate was religious and believed in no sex before marriage - she had no problems either, and her choices were very much respected). I was their friend and I respected theirs.</p>

<p>I see no reason why this issue should be a problem. If the people she lives with don’t respect her choices, she should look elsewhere for friends and not let them pressure her (and probably move at the first opportunity). If boys don’t wish to respect her choices, she should cease to date them (if it’s not in the context of a relationship, she should probably cease to associate with them). She doesn’t need a virginity group…the ones I’ve seen have all creeped me out, and such groups seem to imply that virgins should be separate and on a pedestal, rather than normal members of society alongside non-virgins.</p>

<p>That said, she should learn about warning signs with boys and how to keep herself safe in social situations. I would recommend that she learn some self-defense (I tend to think this is true for everyone, and especially women).</p>

<p>She should also be open to the idea that her beliefs on this issue may change during college, and you should make sure to let her know that it’s okay if they do.</p>

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<p>Also, I think there are some religious colleges where not everyone is religious. MIght be worth checking out.</p>

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<p>Jessiehl, I like your post, but don’t you think it would be different if you had a roommate who was having her boyfriend sleep over? I wonder if one can request a like-minded roommate in that area. Probably not. No way to know in advance.</p>

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<p>Also, no useful way to determine “like-minded”. Some no-sex-before-marriage people would consider any sexual activity to be sex, some think that anything other than, er, the act which can make babies, is fair game.</p>

<p>I think that it’s a bit rude to be engaging in sexual activity more or less in front of your roommate without her consent regardless of her beliefs about sexuality. Though I guess if neither party in the relationship has a single, it becomes harder to avoid. This is where negotiating with your roommate becomes helpful - they can arrange for the happy couple to have a certain block of time alone in the room while the other roommate studies in the lounge or something. Or they can learn each other’s schedules well enough to have a reasonable idea when the no-sex roommate will not be around, and the couple can hang a do-not-disturb sign on the door (I knew someone in college who wired up a small light above his doorway that was green when people were free to come in and say hello, and red when he did not want to be disturbed for whatever reason.</p>

<p>If it’s just sleeping over, with no sex happening in front of the roommate, I see no problem.</p>

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<p>Maybe one reason the OP’s daughter is pining for that one guy in particular is because he is, in fact, so safe: in other words, she can be in love with him without having to make any of the scary/messy decisions that can come with a real relationship.</p>

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<p>Two points:</p>

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<li><p>For whatever reason (and we can speculate as much as we want), it seems clear that the OP’s daughter’s relationship with the guy in question is never going to progress beyond friendship. </p></li>
<li><p>The OP’s daughter seems to be one of those people who is afraid that when they get to college, away from the constraints of home, they will not be able to resist temptations of various kinds. This is a tough issue to deal with, and I admire the OP’s daughter for realizing that it is an issue for her.</p></li>
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<p>Is there a college that she could commute to that offers what she wants academically? If there is, it might be worth considering.</p>

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<p>I admire this too, but eventually she’s going to have to deal with it - if not in college, then in grad school, or out in the non-academic world (and temptations certainly don’t end once you get out of undergrad). Commuting seems like a way of putting it off, not a solution.</p>

<p>Since the relationship between parent and daughter here seems to be so good, perhaps frequent communication between parent and daughter will help ground the daughter and help her to resist anything that goes against her values. Normally I would be worried about this, because in most cases where I’ve seen a parent do this, it’s really the parent’s values that are an issue and they’re trying to keep enforcing them on the student, but in this case, it seems to be the daughter’s values, and she might find it reassuring. And if she finds those values changing, the parent will be there to discuss it with her.</p>

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<p>Re-reading my post, I was being very pessimistic. I do have worries about how the OP’s daughter will handle college, especially if she doesn’t believe she has the power to say “no,” but if she goes, things will likely turn out fine–sooner or later. (I’ve been up all night working. I don’t think it improves my mood. :))</p>

<p>I agree with Terri, JHS, and others who believe the boy is probably gay. That was my immediate thought after reading the posts about him. It’s possible he’s not, but that was my instinct.</p>

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<p>I have two good friends who are fundamental Christians. One of them just celebrated the wedding of her 23 yr old son to his 22 yr old bride. Both virgins. The D of the same woman is a friend of my D’s. In high school she was a leader in her youth group. The leaders were counseled that it was their job to set an example for the other teens. That meant only dating other teens who were also strong Christians. It is a strong possiblity that as much as he likes your D he is committed to his faith.
My other friend has a son who is 24. He has many female friends. He has never had a girlfriend. His reasoning is he still has plans for Grad School and he feels it is not the time for a girlfriend. He feels when he looks he is in the market for a wife not a short term relationship. He feels this is not the right time. Many people who know him suspect he is gay.
One nice thing OP is your relationship with your D is very open. Hopefully she will continue to turn to you when she is away and facing decisions.
I do think your D is wasting her time waiting on this particular boy. Gay or not. I do not know any fundamentalist who would willingly marry an agnostic. If he is strong in his faith it just is not going to happen.</p>

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<p>I think the focus here is too much on the actual virginity, and not enough on the OP’s daughter’s overall attitude/personality. You mentioned that she is shy; coupled with the fact that she is a virgin and she has pined after an underdeveloped religious boy for months, that paints a pretty good picture of her. (I don’t mean that offensively; I mean that this shows she is the shy, good-girl type, which is obviously commendable, especially considering all the negative influences that she has had to work hard to avoid during her life)</p>

<p>However, I have two main concerns here; that she may end up in the unfortunate situation many girls do when they go off to college, which is that after discovering no one here really knows them and they have a fresh start, they tend go a little…crazy. My other concern is that she will NOT become one of the cases of good girl gone party girl, and instead will stay in her current persona, and end up as someone who isn’t confident enough to say no.</p>

<p>Therefore, I think the main focus shouldn’t be on how to help her deal with a situation where her current crush gets engaged at college (hopefully/probably she will be well over him by the time he is even considering an engagement), or on how to help her find outside support for her abstinence; instead, it’s more important to focus on how to build her up now, before she goes off to college.</p>

<p>In my experience, the girls who are best able to handle themselves around men are those who are outspoken, confident, and act like they have experience (not in sex; in life) even if they don’t. I’d recommend doing some research on confidence-building exercises, perhaps encouraging her to participate in a public speaking organization, or even pushing her to socialize more, especially apart from this religious boy. While I can understand your concern that she is longing too much after him, I think you will be happily surprised to find that, with some distance and time, the traits of him that she liked don’t hold nearly as powerful a pull over her.</p>

<p>Overall, though, I have to say that if your daughter is concerned enough about losing her virginity in college to be thinking about it now and talking about it with you, then if the situation arises in the future where someone would like to “assist” her in that regard, she will easily find it within herself to say no.</p>

<p>Also, I agree with everyone else: stay away from the purity organizations. Not only will she probably not be happy there, it’s never a good idea to broadcast your virginity, and also, it immediately typecasts her as the shy, good-girl type. College is the time for branching out, but it doesn’t have to be sexually, and it would be best if she didn’t limit herself and how other people will view her by immediately signing up for a purity organization.</p>