<p>“She shocked me by saying “I’d like to get groped!” I took it in stride, but I did feel odd hearing that from my own kid.”</p>
<p>I think the D needs education about the difference between sexual assault (groping) and loving sexual expression. If she doesn’t get that info, she will become prey for the aggressive, obnoxious and possibly downright abusive men whose ways of trying to attract women is by catcalls, groping, etc.</p>
<p>I agree with shrinkrap that therapy could be helpful to OP and her daughter.</p>
<p>Another vote for therapy! There is way too much anxiety swirling around here and a bit of obsession.</p>
<p>Your goals for your daughter and your goals for her should be to make good decisions and be resiliant when mistakes are made. Period. Sex is not different from any other area of life. </p>
<p>Good decisions include using protection always in a world with AIDs. They also include finding friends and friends + with similar values and with enough integrity not to hurt us.</p>
<p>There is no guarantee that if she waits for marriage to have sex she is not going to marry an abusive person. OP: IMO you dodged a bullet by having premarital sex and having a daughter you love and not an abusive marriage very difficult to get out of.</p>
<p>About the boy situation: Your daughter needs therapy to deal with this right now. Forget college. This is unhealthy!</p>
<p>About the boy: One, it’s just plain rude to speculate about another’s sexuality. Second, OMG – give the guy a break. So he has a high voice. Just because he doesn’t want to date is no reason he needs to be examined this way. (No, this is not personal. My S is a bass with lots of facial hair.)</p>
<p>A bit of personal experience: The S of one of D’s dance teaches is about four years older than she is. He was a big brother to the girls at dance. He seemed creepy to the kids at dance because they never saw him without his Bible. All he could talk about was Christianity and being a missionary. I’m pretty sure he has never dated anyone – just not in his plans right now. When he’s ready to marry, he’ll date. I actually respect this. He doesn’t want to lead anyone on.</p>
<p>Well, to fulfill his goals he has a pilot’s license. He has flown food into Africa. He is also earning a PhD at Columbia/Union Theological Seminary in some very arcane early Semitic language, Akhadian I think. He is well versed in Greek, Sumerian, Latin and Hebrew, and his is brilliant.</p>
<p>D, who is at Barnard, recently ran into him. He asked to get together to catch up. Her friend with her was sure he was asked for a “date”. D demurred, but she was wi****l. “If only he weren’t so Christian,” she said, “he’d be perfect.” Haha. Mr. Creep has turned into Mr. Cool.</p>
<p>It’s of course, a non-starter. D is a very very non-religious Jew. (Probably doesn’t fit other critera but I’m not being more explicit.</p>
<p>On my end: I dated a guy in college, a few dates, who wanted to be a priest. He thought it would be alright to fool (short of “going all the way”)around with a Jewish girl. My position: hey buddy, don’t start something you can’t finish. So when he expressed this idea, that was our last date.</p>
<p>In my mind, he was the creep. The young man your daughter likes is behaving with integrity IMO.</p>
<p>Another story, one agnostic girl from D’s HS (older than she) dated a Mormon for several years. He broke it off because he could only marry another Mormon. He headed off to BYU, and she to Berkeley. Fast forward: she went to Spain for a year and became a Mormon there. Sheis now marrying another Mormon who is getting a PhD at Harvard in History of Science.</p>
<p>This is a complex issue. Therapy is the beginning of understanding all aspects of this girl’s feelings.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Again, coming from a girl your daughters age, the comment about “wanting to be gropped”, is nothing short of needing some help. I dont think my mom would ever let me go away to school if I was saying anything of this sort or behaving this way. My mom and I talk all the time about this stuff, more so on her experiences of what to expect when living away, the drugs/alchohol/being street smart. My mom speaks hypothetically alot, role playing of sorts, saying what to do in certain situations that will inevitalby happen. The things that were difficult for her when firts away from home.</p>
<p>The boys sexuality is irrelevant to a point that it is his business, yet her pining for his lack of interest clearly speaks more of a clue that this girl needs some help. I dont think she really wants to go away, and perhaps this shocking behavior is her way of sending a subliminal message to you.</p>
<p>I don’t like the expression “to lose one’s virginity.” I didn’t misplace it; it was quite deliberate, thank you. I’d been at college for all of a month (shock, horror). On the other hand, I’m still with the boy, I’ve no regrets about it, and I did because I was ready and wanted to. I don’t see anything unhealthy or promiscuous there.</p>
<p>The fact that your daughter sees sex as “letting anyone have access to [her]” is telling, I think. It’s a very passive attitude, consistent with the desire to be “groped” and the fear that men are sex-obsessed predators sneaking glances and wanting to take advantage of her. It doesn’t seem as if she feels in control of her own sexuality, and that worries me.</p>
<p>Imagine these are messages you are getting:</p>
<p>Men are bad, most are potential rapists, normal medical exams hurt like hell, dorms are places where you can be assaulted at any time, everyone we know has been sexually assualted/raped, your body is shameful, if anyone even sees your body, you have lost your innocence, its okay to pine after someone hoping by sheer will you can change fundamentaly who he is, that your options for intimacy is groping</p>
<p>as for speculating about the boys sexuality, I don’t care if he is a martian…HOWEVER, if you are a female and are basically infatuated with an unavailable male, and somehow hope that it can become more, then it might be smart to go hummmm…its is not a judgement of him at all, just one possible reality of his life</p>
<p>My Ds both knew/know boys in HS, who to my Ds, it was fairly obvious the young men were gay, and its wasn’t because of outside appearances…but just this sense…it didn’t matter, it was what it was…a few eventualy came out in HS, and even more came out when they got to college, and those young men, well were much happier once they could be honest, at least with themselves</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Okay, now THAT is a problem. No wonder this is such a confusing/fearful thing for your D to think about, if that is the message she is getting about what men are like.</p>
<p>Let me chime in with the suggestion for therapy all around. I’m creeped out by the whole situtation. Many, many red flags.</p>
<p>I absolutely second Camelia’s comment above. It does sound as though your daughter has an extremely passive view of sex - as though it’s something a man does TO her, rather than WITH her. That’s very worrying, in my opinion. </p>
<p>Your daughter needs to recognise that a) not all men are out to attack her; b) sex can be a positive thing; and c) sex is an ACTIVE thing. It should not be seen as something that ‘happens’ to you, it’s something that you decide to do. </p>
<p>If your daughter is genuinely concerned about rape (and it’s certainly a valid concern), she should get a rape alarm and take some self-defence classes, as someone suggested earlier. The answer is NOT to view all men as potential rapists, though!</p>
<p>Passing unhealthy mental attitudes from generation to generation…I dibs the first call for theraphy for mom and daugther… If op can be as detailed here about her life, she is better off telling that story to a professional where she can actually get help. The problem may be the feeling it isn’t necessary. </p>
<p>This is like smoking infront of the kids and being surprized when they take up smoking… </p>
<p>Pretty much what this family doesn’t realize is a normal guy is going to run the other way…fast. I mean a guy can only deal with so much baggage… So chances are the only ones she’ll attract are the ones that will perpetuate this situation…</p>
<p>I understand why many are suggesting therapy, and don’t disagree.</p>
<p>I’m thinking it could be overwhelming, even if it’s the correct longterm idea.</p>
<p>I often look for a good “first step” for families to take, just to get another responsible voice in the conversation. Online forums of intelligent strangers is one voice, but there are others IRL.</p>
<p>Seeking help is a process. People are more likely to call someone they already know, just for one visit, to hear from a trusted source but on a new topic. </p>
<p>In addition to therapy, wondering if people might suggest better IRL resources for Mom to consider as an accessible First Step. Eventually, perhaps therapy, I actually think that is well-advised. But I think there’s a huge leap here from where the OP sits and the l0 sessions with a mental health professional… </p>
<p>These resources are one phone call away. AFTER THAT, consider therapy.</p>
<p>I’ll start:
<ol>
<li><p>her trusted Family Doctor
Mom can call ahead to identify the topics she wants discussed, but don’t sit in on the session. Encourage child to ask any questions on her mind. PROMISE her you won’t grill her afterwards about what they talked about…and keep your promise.</p></li>
<li><p>a pastor if there’s one in her life, to talk about FEELINGS and trust of others. Call ahead to ask pastor to please focus on human relationships and minimize God-talk. Even if he tacks on his sales pitch at the end, pastors have a lot of family experience and a good one is worth gold.</p></li>
<li><p>a school nurse</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Ok, I have a few things to say</p>
<p>On the issue of “Therapy”, so you you all understand my views of it. </p>
<p>Let me pose this. I am afraid to die. This fear started after I realized that I had lost my faith in the afterlife at the same time that I experienced a medical crisis. So now I think of the fact that I will eventually die, it likely will be painful, and medical care usually doesn’t help it (all statistically true, as well as what I’ve seen in the torturous and long deaths of my grandparents). Now, there are people I know who say “What’s the point of worrying about it, it’s going to happen no matter what”. One person said “Have you thought of therapy?”. Is a therapist going to dissuade me that I won’t die or that death will not be painful. So what is therapy going to do for me? I don’t need a paid friend to tell me what free friends can – you willl die and nobody will promise it won’t be painful and you just have to “hope for the best” that a doctor will control that (if one is present and if that doctor cares enough, euthanasia is illegal). </p>
<p>On the point of my daughter having known no nice men. Let’s put it this way. In those countries where women have to wear scarves, marriage is totally arranged, and women are killed for being out with a man not their husband, do you really think that those women “like men”? Do you think that they see men as benevolent and safe? Come on people. I didn’t choose my father. My mother did. But she saw a young man raised in an upstanding two parent family in the suburbs. She had no idea he’d be the way he was. My daughter did not choose her father. I did. Again, two (appeared to be) decent working parents to a son who was in high school, working, and dressed nice. Didn’t know that after I already loved him, he’d turn into a whacko substance abuser who’d spread his seed and then walk out on every kid he’d made. His brother and father both turned out to be sexual predators. My grandfathers are dead. My father is nuts. </p>
<p>In comes my husband, who is a loving man, and has been the only father since age 5. Loving and hard working, yes. Sensitive and considerate, no. What my daughter has seen is me working my tail off to work, raise kids, clean the house, manage the bills and appointments, help with homework, etc… My husband goes to work, comes home, eats the dinner I made, leaves it to be cleaned up by me, and then plays video games the rest of the night. Does it stink? Yeah. But my sister’s husband is the same way. Apparently so are a lot of women’s husbands on the net and Dear Abby. </p>
<p>And so my daughter made a comment that she would not put up with these things. Not only that, but my husband freely has admitted that he was a “pig” as a young man prior to meeting me. He admits that when he was a teen, he dated a girl for 4 years. She was initially a virgin, and would not have sex with him for the first 4 months. He admits that he was out screwing around the whole time he was saying “I love you” to her, waiting to get into her pants. And afterwards, he cheated on her everytime he went out of town with his cousins. He figured she’d never know. She found out two years after a cheating incident by a woman scorned, and that was the end of the relationship. When I met him, he was still pining over his stupidity a year later. Now just for the record, I actually do not believe that my husband has ever been unfaithful to me in our 12 years together. I’m the only woman who was ever his wife. Still, he has also made comments like “I was an awkward kid. But if I knew as a teen what I know about females now, I’d have tapped every one I could have!!” So I both love my husband and am repulsed by his alley cat attitude. I am sure my daughter is too. </p>
<p>Add to this the sexual attacks on females in my family. My mother was sexually attacked as a young woman by a very wealthy young man. My sister and I both were victims of molestation by a trusted old man when we were very little. My sister was attacked in a park on the way to the SAT exam, and narrowly escaped not being raped. </p>
<p>I held onto my virginity until I was 17. I cared very much for a particular boy, who was also my best friend. But after years of waiting, he made me feel undesirable on the wrong day. And so I called up another boy whom I knew was attracted to me and had also been my friend for the past 7 months (right in front of the other boy). Mind you, I did date other boys, but I would not sleep with them. I was “saving myself” for the best friend. But that day, I said that I had waited 3 years, and that if he didn’t want me, someone else did, and proceeded to go to that other boy’s house and lost my virginity. And yes I mean “lost”. The next day, there was a party where both boys attended. When the boy whom I lost my virginity to came in, he said to my “best friend” “Where’s all the females!” Needless to say I was humiliated and hurt. </p>
<p>So then I go to school, and I run into a boy whom I hadn’t seen in many months. I was very impressed with him, his big house, his rich parents. In the past, he had been my boyfriend, I had gone to his house a number of times, made out with him, and left. We never slept together. Then he cheated on me and I dumped him. Then we had sort of started to see each other again. Then I had to leave home and did not see him for months, no call or word from him the whole time. So I return to school and he acts like he’s missed me the whole time. I didn’t know what to say, I felt terrible that he was “waiting for me”. I admitted that I had lost my virginity to someone else. He acted shocked and hurt in the hall, and so I agreed to talk to him afterschool at his house. When I got to his house, he raped me in his mother’s bedroom. Told me afterwards that he had “made up my mind when i saw you in that skirt to have you once and for all” and “Don’t forget, my mother is a lawyer”. So I slinked off to my bus, went home, and tried to forget it. I did tell some mutual male friends, who did not believe me. I did call the cops months later, but it was too late.</p>
<p>Then in comes bio dad. Told me he loved me for weeks, was nice to me, made me feel wanted, seemed to come from a nice family. And what happens, he became abusive and I got pregnant. In fact, while I was pregnant, his new girlfriend would call me and tell me how he had just left her bed. I still took the jerk back “for the sake of the baby” to appease my Catholic upbringing. He became an abusive crackhead. Best thing that I ever did was to boot him out, go to college, and focus on raising my child. I didn’t date anyone until my husband.</p>
<p>2 years ago, my 16 year old cousin was drugged by her 20 year old boyfriend and they had sex without a condom. He actually dumped her at her doorstep, where she was in her room in a stupor for days. She didn’t even know she had had sex without a condom at the time. She got pregnant and her mother refused to deal with it. She ultimately gave the baby up in an open adoption, which has not really worked out for the girl. Some 39 year old “Christian” man on the internet, an EMT, and volunteer firefighter “took pity” on her and intervened in her “problems with her mother”. Next thing you know, this girl is now living with this man as his girlfriend. </p>
<p>Last year, my niece, same age as my daughter, was drugged and raped at a houseparty. She was upset over a phone call with her boyfriend. Her friends (a girl and a guy) suggested she lay down upstairs. The girl left to take a phone call, and the guy stayed, offered her some water. Which she took. Started feeling tired and off right away and the next thing she knew, he had raped her. Only told her mother 2 days later because her boyfriend made her go to the cops. I had to be at that hospital. She had not showered, had saved her underwear, and the advocate went on with “You did everything right”. Yeah. They cared about testing her for STDs and giving her drugs for that, but no morning after pill. We had to hassle for that the next day. Then at the police station, the cops turned it into “We get women like you every year who are mad at their boyfriends and make this stuff up” and yelled at her. Asked her what race she is (she is biracial). Totally humiliating experience. So the guy got away with this and has been in the paper a number of times for serving booze to underage kids, but that is it. Still in the neighborhood.</p>
<p>Does my daughter know of this stuff? Yes. But the facts are the facts. Should I paint a picture of pretty lies? This is our world. This is what the males in this world have done to the women that are in our family. The truth is the truth. What’s a therapist going to say “Don’t be afraid of males?” </p>
<p>Am I angry and fearful? Maybe angry that I was so weak and gullible as a kid. I am kind of angry at some of these pat responses of people who seem to deny that sexual assault and oppression of females occurs. Fearful that my daughter may encounter this problems? Yes. </p>
<p>I don’t worry about academics. My daughter is fit for college in the sense that she academically deserves to be there. She is on the high honor roll and is very involved in activities. It’s the people I worry about. I read the thread of the person who did not want to have a roommate. Can’t say I blame that person. I don’t buy into the need for that. When in your life will you “have” to live with a stranger? In real life, we can pick and choose who we live and associate with. I think that adjusting to more rigorous coursework and being away from loved ones is hard enough without throwing the need to live with a stranger into the mix. Unfortunately, the local colleges are inadequate and I will not have my child compromise her education because of other people. </p>
<p>As to the religious boy, I am sorry, but it is one thing to go to a dance as friends. But when you buy the girl her ticket, you are sending a message. When you escort her in on your arm, you are sending a message. When you do things like pull your underwear above your pants and show them off, that is flirting. When you give a girl a bible, saying that you only wish that she had a mustard seed of faith, and sign it “love”, that’s bound to leave a message. Couple this with treating her out to eat all of the time because he has a job, giving her gifts for her birthday and holidays… Look, her female best friend does not do this.</p>
<p>Another thing on therapy.</p>
<p>Do any of you realize that when you go to therapy, that there is always a diagnosis? I know this for a fact, I work with these professionals. And that you can be precluded from many professional licenses due to therapy and a diagnosis? I know this for a fact. Many professional licenses require that you pass a psychological assessment. While I am very sure that she would pass such a test, I don’t intend to have my daughter’s future as a possible politician, doctor, lawyer, teacher, etc… compromised because some therapist will list her as depressed and distru****l of males when she is justified. No thank you.</p>
<p>Also, I think that the groping comment was taken too literally. The context of the conversation was that she felt bad that no boy had ever asked her out, never seemed to want her. She feels ugly and unattractive. In saying “I’d like to be groped”, what I believe she meant was that, at this point, she’d welcome just about any attention that would affirm for her that she is attractive.</p>
<p>The groping comment then shows a lack of confidence. Confidence should come from inside, from your belief in yourself, not from the reassurances of other people. Attractiveness should also be based in her mind on more important and defining characteristics than sexual desirability.</p>
<p>The comments about therapy are truly unfounded. It is sad that you would sacrifice your child’s mental and physical health because of your unwillingness to change your worldview.</p>
<p>As far as I’m aware, a diagnosis can only be made by a psychiatrist (M.D.). I spent two months in therapy (which I hated, but for other reasons) and was never diagnosed with anything.</p>
<p>I think you may be missing the point of therapy. </p>
<p>“to tell me what free friends can – you willl die and nobody will promise it won’t be painful and you just have to “hope for the best” that a doctor will control that”</p>
<p>You don’t need a diagnosis if you pay cash. (you do need a code for billing your insurance but it can be “adjustment disorder” which has limited impact). The therapy doesn’t have to be for your daughter. (But if it is, and it’s worth it, it’s worth it).In my opinion this titilating thread could be someones “therapy”. You get what you pay for… I believe the best therapy should be goal oriented.</p>
<p>Also, I don’t appreciate the “creeped out” comments. If you feel that way, don’t post. I came here, flaws and all, for advice on how to deal with my child’s concerns. Considering that my kid is on the honor roll, well respected by peers, and has never had sex, done drugs, drank, smoked, stolen, or skipped school, I’d say that she’s doing pretty well! I am concerned about o the next stage of life – finding a career that will make her happy and finding a mate who will love and respect her. She’ll find that career if she is not sidetracked by relationship angst. She’ll find that mate if there are any good ones left to find so long as she hasn’t been put through the ringer too much by the bad ones. Simple as that.</p>
<p>
This is cause for concern. The risk here is that her need for validation might lead her to go further physically than she’s really comfortable with, which could be incredibly damaging.
I completely agree. I hated therapy precisely because it wasn’t.</p>
<p>By the way, as to another post, I certainly have told her that sex after the first time is enjoyable. I’ve told her that although I had premarital sex, my wedding night was still meaningful. I have also discussed that no matter what she may plan, if she falls in love, it will be very hard to stop before sex if you are alone with that person. Amongst other things.</p>