What are my chances at top US universities?

Student Lounge International Students
1

<p>Hi everybody!</p>

<p>I’m quite new here at College Confidential, but there seems like a lot of people here qualifies for an educated opinion. I’m currently working, trying to save up some money so hopefully I will have the opportunity to enroll at a world-class university for the Class of 2013.</p>

<p>I’m writing here because I am unsure whether I have a good opportunity of pursuing my dream, which is to attend one of the major schools in the US – or if it won’t be worthwhile. </p>

<p>My GPA is way over the average student, but certainly not straight As. However in Norway, where I have received my high school certificate, seemingly, As aren’t handed out as easy as in the US for instance. Anyway, my GPA is certainly my weakest score of measure. </p>

<p>I recently conducted my first SAT-test, and my scores were as follows: M: 720, CR: 620, Wr: 650. But I am seriously considering retaking the SAT-test, in which case I firmly believe my scores will be significantly higher.</p>

<p>When it comes to extra-curricular activities, my list pretty much ends after the headline. Basically, at my school, you had to attend one of the dedicated schools (e.g. Sports School and Music School) to be invited at any extracurricular activities. Nevertheless, I own and run this small-scale internet firm, which preoccupied a lot of my spare time in high school.</p>

<p>I am looking at Majoring in Finance (thereby attending a Business School). Here’s a list of the US universities I would prefer to attend:</p>

<p>10 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton)
10 New York University (Stern)
9 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
8 Massachusetts Inst. of Technology (Sloan)
8 U. of North Carolina–Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler)
8 University of California–Berkeley (Haas)
7 University of Texas–Austin (McCombs)
7 University of Virginia (McIntire)
7 Carnegie Mellon University ¶
7 U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
6 Indiana University–Bloomington (Kelley)</p>

<p>The number in front of the university’s name is my own measure of how much I would like to enroll at each given university.</p>

<p>Event though financial aid would help me a lot, I am confident I can manage to attend without any financial aid from the school.</p>

<p>Here are some questions I would appreciate if anyone could help me answer:</p>

<li> When I apply, will I be compared to all other Internationals, or filtrated into a pool with only people from my own region / country (Norway)?</li>
<li> How do my SAT-scores look? Worth retaking? Way under what’s expected?</li>
<li> Will my lack of extracurricular activities and (relatively) feeble GPA be pivotal?</li>
<li> The fact that I run a small business successfully, does that count for something?</li>
<li> How to translate my grades (1-6, with 6 being the equivalent to A), into GPA?</li>
<li> Which of the universities seems plausible, possible and out-of-the-question for me to enroll at?</li>
</ol>

<p>Hopefully someone spent some of their time to read this post, and give me some valuable answers and / or opinions. </p>

<p>Thanks beforehand!</p>

2

<p>You might have a chance at New York University, University of Michigan, University of Texas, U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign and Indiana University–Bloomington if you don't ask for any aid. That will probably be your only hook since your SAT score and GPA aren't that great. You still have a year left so retake the SAT and try to get involved in ECA's. If you improve the SAT scores by another 100-150, I think you will have a decent shot at Wharton, Berkeley and UVA but MIT still might be a very high reach. Remember to also work hard on the essays.</p>

3

<p>You are over-analyzing your situation. If you knew whether you were competing against all international students or just students from Scandinavian countries, would that make any difference for your application strategy?</p>

<p>Anyway, it would make sense for you to retake the SAT; you will also have to take some SAT subject tests and maybe the TOEFL.</p>

<p>You don't need to convert your grades. Just compute your GPA (grade point average) from the grades on the 6-1 scale and report that, along with a short explanation of the grading scale (like the one you just gave us). The easiest way to compute your GPA is to take the average (arithmetic mean) of your grades, e.g. one 1 and two 2s would translate into a (1+2+2)/3 = 1.67 GPA. If you take a lot of classes with different intensities (e.g. two classes with 5 periods a week and then 10 classes with 2-3 periods a week), you could give more weight to the grades from the more intensive classes. Does your school compute any sort of GPA for you (e.g. a graduating GPA that you would put on a resume)? If so, report that number. </p>

<p>Anyway, don't stress out too much about calculating your GPA. You will have to report every single grade from the last 4 years of school, and colleges often use those grades to re-calculate your GPA with their own formula.</p>

<p>More important than the absolute value of your grades is your class rank. A GPA that places you second in a class of 340 has a very different meaning than the same number if it would make you number 76. Your high school is asked to report your class rank, or provide an estimate of your class rank (e.g. top 10%) if no precise rank is available, on the school report.</p>

4

<p>Strong chances at CMU, Indiana, Illinois, Texas & NYU.</p>

5

<h1>3: The reason I was wondering was simply because I've read that it's extremely hard to get accepted to a top university if you are from India (and other comparable countries, such as China), due to the large amount of applicants. Hence my question if this is the case at the schools in my list.</h1>

<p>And btw, thanks for all the replies! Appreciated.</p>

6

<p>Close to 0 chance if you're a "just above average" student. The International applicant pool at any school is better than the Domestic one. You'd need a lot more than that to make it to a good school in the US. And that lack of ECs is going to hurt you real bad. </p>

<p>Whats your class rank?</p>

7

<p>
[quote]

3: The reason I was wondering was simply because I've read that it's extremely hard to get accepted to a top university if you are from India (and other comparable countries, such as China), due to the large amount of applicants. Hence my question if this is the case at the schools in my list.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There are no quotas by country as far as I know. </p>

<p>CMU, UVa, UPenn, MIT, NYU and UCB (Google them in case you aren't familiar) are as good as rejects for Internationals if they aren't they aren't one of the best their countries can offer.</p>

<p>You would need to increase your GPA to a 5.5+/6 (to say the least) if you want to have a realistic chance at any of the schools I've mentioned above. Additionally, you would need to dabble in more ECs and try to win regionally, if not better.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
You might have a chance at New York University, University of Michigan, University of Texas, U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign and Indiana University–Bloomington if you don't ask for any aid. That will probably be your only hook since your SAT score and GPA aren't that great. You still have a year left so retake the SAT and try to get involved in ECA's. If you improve the SAT scores by another 100-150, I think you will have a decent shot at Wharton, Berkeley and UVA but MIT still might be a very high reach. Remember to also work hard on the essays.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not asking for aid isn't a hook.</p>

9

<p>CMU? Best of your nation?</p>

<p>If you aren't asking for aid (you can't, at CMU) and have decent stats, you're pretty much in.</p>

10

<p>Just so you're not given inaccurate info, CMU Tepper last year had 13.8% acceptance rate, specifically 425 accepted out of 3,063 who applied. Avg SAT 600-700V, 690-790M, class rank 4%. CMU is a significant reach for you. You'll find currently admission to top b schools in US is very competitive.</p>

11

<p>gouchicago why do you think not asking for aid is NOT a hook? considering so many internationals ask for aid and so few get it, not applying for any aid at all surely must give an international applicant a significant boost in his/her chances...</p>

12

<p>Oops I was referring to the Mellon College</p>

13

<p>A "hook" is something which differentiates you from most other applicants in the sense that it is relatively uncommon. Getting recruited for athletics, participating in International Olympiads, being a legacy and the likes are considered "hooks". "Hooks" are unconventional achievements which show you as a very unique individual and may tilt the committee's decision in your favour.</p>

<p>Although asking for aid significantly lowers an International's chances, "not" asking for aid doesn't give a reason for the committee to admit you. "Not" asking for aid will put you in a pool which is more or less as competitive as the Domestic one. You would still have to demonstrate that you would make a potential student at XYZ university. If the university really wants you, it'll be ready to dish out $49,000 a year for you, but if it doesn't want you, they'll reject you even if you're willing to pay the full sticker price.</p>

<p>There are many "nots" in a college application - like "not" indulging in felony in high school or "not" getting imprisoned for drug abuse. Such things do bring down your chances if you've been into them, but they don't make "hooks" otherwise. </p>

<p>Sadly, asking for aid is one of them.</p>

14

<p>@gouchicago - I completely agree, and whats more, colleges like MIT and Princeton are even more competitive cos they are need blind to internationals :(</p>

15

<p>I disagree a bit, actually. If you're an international who can pay full freight, a lot of universities drastically lower their standards for you (NYU, Cornell and USC come to mind)</p>

16

<p>Wow, a lot of contradictions here. </p>

<p>In Norway, there are no competitions in math, science etc. Nor is there any school rank. Concerning the ECs, are this only activities from my time in High School? Or could / should I include activities from years before that? Are only activities through school useful, or shall I include other spare time activities?</p>

<p>For my SAT I didn't read anything but an introduction about what the test was all about. So I plan to retake it, and read some books and do some test preparations. That should manage to significantly boost my score. Any good ideas for excellent preparation material?</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
I disagree a bit, actually. If you're an international who can pay full freight, a lot of universities drastically lower their standards for you (NYU, Cornell and USC come to mind)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's subject to whether or not you play the diversity card well.</p>

<p>
[quote]
In Norway, there are no competitions in math, science etc. Nor is there any school rank. Concerning the ECs, are this only activities from my time in High School? Or could / should I include activities from years before that? Are only activities through school useful, or shall I include other spare time activities?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>All your activities, whether they have been through your school or in your spare time may be mentioned, provided you participated in them during high school.</p>

18

<p>If you are an international and are not asking for aid (except at need blind institutions) it differentiates you from most other candidates. So it does act like kind of a hook (though a bit differnt from the usual hooks). I have seen too many average students get into very good colleges just because they were willing to pay. Some colleges would even prefer paying intels over an American with the same stats.</p>

<p>@zypNOR just keep practicing from the collegeboard and barrons SAT books. You should definitely include activities outside of school. Usually applicants do no include activities prior to high school, but I would suggest you include them if they are very significant.</p>

19

<p>In most countries students don't get ranked, but your counselor (/teacher/principal) should still be able to come up with an "educated guess" of how you compare to the rest of your class based on your grades (top half? top quarter? top 10%?).</p>

<p>I am having a hard time believing you that there are no science competitions in Norway. How does Norway select their participants for the international science olympiads? (A quick google search revealed a Niels Henrik Abels Mathematics Competition, as one example.)</p>

20

<p>You're absolutely right, there is the Niels Henrik Abels Mathematics Competition. Unfortunately, all the info the teacher gave us was that we would receive a diploma if we exceeded a given score. So I got the diploma, but didn't take it too serious since I had no idea about the finals back then.</p>