How does this not concern you? If you don’t know how much he’s drinking with friends, then he’s not drinking at home. How does he get to the friends’ houses? Are you driving him? Or do you let him drive himself, knowing that he may be intoxicated? How are all the other kids getting around? I don’t mean to be overly critical here, but at my son’s high school there have been several deaths due to car accidents, where no alcohol was involved – just inexperienced drivers. I find it hard to understand the indifference to the dangers involved. From what I’ve read, and I’m sure Mini has data to back this up, kids that drink in HS are probably drinking to excess, and are more likely to binge drink in college. Their brains are still at a vulnerable developmental stage, and alcohol can be used to self-medicate for emotional issues and can also lead to depression. I think you are playing with fire.</p>
<p>sjmom, yes, I took many stats courses in my college years and have participated in many controlled studies in my professional life. I’m well aware of what can and what cannot be determined by statistics, and how reliable they are. I also know that 25+ years of daily observations and professional experience, my own and that of my colleagues, is a more accurate reflection on this issue. Since you do not have that experience, I can understand you relying on stats quoted on an internet message board but, for me, 25+ years of experience is not just anecdote. In addition to that, I have yet to see any statistics comparing the issue in the way that I’ve experienced. There’s some truth in that old saying about lies, damn lies, and statistics.</p>
<p>alwaysamom, it is apparent from your post that you have formed your opinion and have no intention of letting the data dissuade you. Even 25+ years of personal experience does not form a good experimental design and would not withstand scrutiny from any journal of which I’m aware. By the way, I would suggest that you know nothing about my experience or education, so your personal remarks are rather condescending, in my opinion.</p>
<p>I let him drink, lightly, with meals, at home. I don’t want him to see alcohol as a forbidden substance</p>
<p>In my experience working wiht high schoolers, not just my own, students whose parents allow them to drink at home- indeed, see it as * not a BFD*.
This translates into, if they like it they will drink when away from their parents, after all, their parents have already put the approval stamp on, and as they are so experienced- they * know* how to handle their liquor and know when to stop ( as Lucifer has pointed out earlier)</p>
<p>Of course, once you feel drunk and stop drinking, your liver is still processing the amount of alcohol. and your level of inebriation will increase.</p>
<p>18 yr old brains are not like 25 yr old brains- maybe why it is illegal?</p>
<p>* In the first human study to assess alcohol’s effects on memory in young adults, researchers at Duke University and the Durham VA Medical Center found that just two drinks can dampen the ability of college-age students to learn and remember new information, but the same amount has little effect on a person aged 25 to 29.</p>
<p>The researchers say this suggests there is a critical window of time in early adulthood when the brain becomes less sensitive to alcohol’s memory-impairing effects. Prior to that period, alcohol appears to inhibit learning and memory in young brains but not in adult brains, according to five years of animal research and their latest human study.*</p>
<p>And I think that anybody whose child is in the social mainstream (for better or worse) as a junior or senior at most American high schools, who thinks that their kid is not at parties where there is drinking (and who is probably drinking themselves), is seriously deluding themselves.</p>
<p>Of course it concerns me. And drinking/driving concerns me the most. I think the drinking/driving message has sunk in, and I think that most kids in my son’s cohort are very careful about it. That’s one reason that there are a lot of “sleepovers” Saturday nights - they don’t want to drive after drinking.</p>
<p>Again, I think the key here is, after a certain point in high school, trying to make sure that there’s a rational transition between adult-supervised high school life, and adult-free college dorm life. We all know the stories of the tightly controlled kids (Catholic school girls tended to be the most flagrant examples of this back when I was a college student in the mid 70s) who go wild when they have their first taste of independence. I would prefer that my son experience some of the college vices while I’m still around to offer advice or provide some level of control. Hopefully, he’ll be more mature about his choices in college.</p>
<p>This is not about indifference - it’s just about what is the most practical way, in my opinion, to achieve the results that I want. First, I want a son who survives high schools, and to that end, there is no end of discussion about the hazards of drinking/driving. And of out-of-control drinking. But that’s really all I can do, is discuss and lead by example. By the time kids are 16+ (lest we all have conveniently forgotten out own youth), they pretty much can do whatever they want, if they’re so inclined. Our job is to raise them so that they’re not so inclined.
Second, I want a son who does not develop into an alcoholic, and who learns to incorporate light or modest alcohol consumption into his life - IF he chooses to drink at all. To that end, I try to lead by example, which is not a self-conscious example; it’s just what I do (maybe one beer or glass of wine with dinner, on average -if that. I just don’t want alcohol to be a big deal to him, either way.
I will continue to think that we court more trouble when we go to extremes about normal teenage behavior; when we try to ban it instead of shaping it. Sex is another hot topic here, and very closely related to late-adolescent drinking behavior. Anyone game? (for a discussion of the issue, that is)?</p>
<p>And I think that anybody whose child is in the social mainstream (for better or worse) as a junior or senior at most American high schools, who thinks that their kid is not at parties where there is drinking (and who is probably drinking themselves), is seriously deluding themselves.</p>
<p>I guess I would have to say- perhaps my daughters school didn’t have a “social mainstream”
Her ECs took up a great deal of her time -either she was homedoing homework- at track practice- at rehersal or performance for vocal or theatre productions- working at her volunteer job or at a friends house connected with the above-
I am very aware of the party lifestyle- but many kids just don’t have the time to spend weekends attending and recovering from parties where they use drugs/alcohol.
I didn’t let my daughter attend parties where I hadn’t spoken with or known the parents- I don’t know why anyone wouldnt want to know where your kids are going to be.
I took my responsiblity as a parent of a teen very seriously-
She also chose to attend a college without frats and without a culture of getting drunk two nights a week- there was no frigging way you would have been able to keep up academically if you did.
Yes they had parties, but while it may be unusual to think about, high school and college entertainment doesn’t have to revolve around substance use.
From what I have observed- when they have a history of being able to entertain themselves without resorting to artifical means in high shcool, they are less likely to do so in college.
Re- students sleeping it off after they have been drinking
you might find these snippets of a recent Cornell student comments illuminating.
<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/04/14/news/15232.shtml[/url]”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2006/04/14/news/15232.shtml</a></p>
<p>My daughter’s school does have a social “mainstream” with a lot of drinking. Too much, IMO. But my daughter is very busy and chooses not to attend such parties and chooses not to drink. She attended the junior prom last week and was in a limo with like-minded kids. When picked up at 4 am, every last one of those kids was stone cold sober. They also had a great time and I ‘ve got some beautiful pictures. I think in our case, hubby and I model a non-drinking but very happy lifestyle, so our kids don’t have the impression that they need to drink to have a good time or to be “adults.” We don’t make alcohol a forbidden substance, either, because they see relatives and friends having wine or beer, so it holds no mystery. My daughter is a very pretty girl who gets lots of attention from boys (and some from men, much to my dismay!). She has been allowed to date since she turned 16 but chooses not to. As she put it “I’m BUSY mom and I don’t have TIME for that.” Which is just fine for me. I really can’t imagine allowing or facilitating underage drinking in my home. If it’s there, what’s to stop a kid from getting blitzed? How can one be sure what he/she will do later? Does one stand there and watch and count every drink? are parents called if someone does get drunk? What if this is against the parents’ principles? How does one make sure that the parents are ok with it?</p>
<p>I think that high school and college students who are inclined to drink are going to drink regardless of whether they are supervised or not. </p>
<p>Why are they inclined to drink? Probably some combination of peer pressure, the “coolness” factor, the simply pleasure they may take in a bit of rebelliousness, enjoyment of the buzz, modeling behavior after what they see at home on TV or in the movies, or a plethora of other factors. Is is so terrible for parents to supervise underage high school kids while drinking? I, for one, don’t approve, but I wouldn’t tell anyone else how to raise their children. I do think it inappropriate for parents to serve alcohol to underage drinkers without their parents’ approval (and I’m aware that it happens even before high school). I always make sure that before my daughter goes over to a friend’s house for the evening or to sleep over, that I have spoken with the parents of my daughter’s friend (except in the limited circumstances where I know the parents exceedingly well). My parents raised me in the same way. </p>
<p>My husband and I know that alcohol and drugs (and sex, for that matter) are out there and are readily available. We teach our daughter at home about the good, the bad and the consequences, and pray that she has the good sense to mind us when she is out in the world where we can’t be next to her to protect her. We have never hesitated to explain to her that the dangers of drinking and losing control relate not only to alcohol poisoning or drinking and driving, but also to what can happen to a girl/woman (in particular) who is incapable of being responsible for her own safety. A a parent who can’t and who wouldn’t want to be by her side 24 hours a day, I feel confident that she understands. The rest is up to her.</p>
I understand your point of view. It is one that I have considered, but the data has shown me that it is still a risky approach with teenagers. Do you allow your son to smoke marijuana at home? After all, he might try it in college, and this way you can supervise it and teach him how to handle it. Of course, it’s illegal, but that’s also true for alcohol. I’m not trying to give you a hard time, but the logic of allowing teenagers to drink just escapes me. I’m sure you are a wonderful, caring father, but your approach typifies a dangerous idea to me. To each his own, of course.</p>
<p>“And I think that anybody whose child is in the social mainstream (for better or worse) as a junior or senior at most American high schools, who thinks that their kid is not at parties where there is drinking (and who is probably drinking themselves), is seriously deluding themselves.”</p>
<p>I don’t know what it is like in your state. In my state, 4.4% of sixth graders, 18.0% of 8th graders, 32.6% of 10th graders, and 42.6% of 12th graders have used alcohol in the past 30 days. In other words, the vast majority of high school students in my state, did NOT drink even once in the past 30 days. It is social mythology.</p>
<p>Depends on where you look for the mainstream.</p>
<p>When parents are insistent that their child has never had a drink and that they know where they are and what they are doing 24/7 it’s almost a given that their kid has/will sneak a drink from someone sooner or later. Having a secret from the parents and doing something they know isn’t ‘allowed’ is usually a given…and drinking is usually the easiest way to accomplish that.</p>
<p>On the other hand I know many kids who just don’t like to drink. Of course that meant they have tried it (a fact their parents may/may not be aware of) and they just choose not too. It’s really not that unusual. The idea that most HS kids are looking to get drunk every weekend isn’t the reality in my world. </p>
<p>An occasional bit of alcohol isn’t something to be worried about. Binge drinking or addiction is a whole other matter.</p>
<p>sjmom, I in no way meant to be condescending, and I apologize if anything I said insulted you. I am assuming that you have not had 25 years of working and living on college campuses on both sides of the border and interacting with students on a daily basis. That was all I meant by my previous post. Perhaps my assumption is incorrect, but I would think that you would have mentioned that at some point in the discussion. If you have, then I’d be interested to hear how your observations have differed from mine.</p>
<p>It’s not a case of ‘my mind being made up’. It’s my day to day work and interaction and experience that I’m referencing here. I’ve seen nothing here on CC, nor any actual studies which have compared the two countries. It’s also a reflection of the data which I’ve studied over the years, on this and other issues, and the studies in which I’ve participated, which have led me to treat statistics and the accuracy of such, with some healthy skepticism.</p>
<p>Just as an addendum, the marijuana issue is not the same, because smoking weed is not something which the majority of adults are going to do on a semi-regular basis. It is not something which becomes legal at age 21, or ever. It’s not something which can be a part of social interaction or something as simple as having a meal with a friend, unless you happen to be living in Holland. :)</p>
<p>the marijuana issue is not the same, because smoking weed is not something which the majority of adults are going to do on a semi-regular basis.</p>
<p>Pot use is actually more prevalent than you might think.
*Denver became the first city in the nation to make the private use of marijuana legal for adults 21 and older as an alternative to alcohol, a far more harmful drug. By 10.45 p.m. Tuesday night, with 100% of the votes tallied, the Alcohol-Marijuana Equalization Initiative had passed 53.49% YES to 46.51% NO. *</p>
Is this intended to be consiliatory? If so, it must just be over my head. It still strikes me as condescending and passive/aggressive. That is the weakness of an internet exchange, of course, so let’s just leave it where it is.</p>
<p>Pot is very prevalent just about everywhere, especially college. And from what I know and remember it IS “part of social interaction or something as simple as having a meal with a friend”. Very much so. Smoking pot more often a social activity than a solitary one.</p>
<p>I used to smoke pot I admit- My brother who recently retired from the air force used to grow it and sell it when he was in high school
( my mother apparently felt that as a single parent- if she had any restrictions upon him- he would grow up to be …wait for it…
homosexual )</p>
<p>When I was in high school, it is much easier to get than alcohol, and rarely anyone did anything really crazy under the influence of pot alone-the craziest things would probably be making a really bizarre food combination.</p>
<p>speaking as a high school seniorwho drinks most weekends, i’d like to throw in my two cents. my parents have never supplied me with alcohol, other than glasses of wine at the odd dinner, and have never been approving of underage drinking, but they never preach to me which i truly appreciate. rather, they give me reasonable, realistic talks about it-the real rules about alcohol, for me, are that i need to know my limits, drink at my own pace, to NEVER drink and drive, nor drive with someone else who has been drinking, and to be aware of lowered inhibitions while drunk, etc. i have followed these rules ever since i started drinking regularly (grade 10). my parents understand that regardless of what they say, i will not stop drinking, and so they are realistic and constructive with me about it. they trust me, and they know that i am a very responsible person-i really am not a rebellious person, at all.</p>
<p>anyways, my point is that there is a very effective middle ground, which i realize others have touched upon. my parents neither encourage my drinking nor attempt to stop it-they instead deal with it in a constructive and effective way, and i love and respect them for it. although i get drunk most weekends, i’m pretty smart about it and i credit my parents for that. not all regular/binge drinkers are rebellious idiots-all of my friends and i are academically successful, responsible and socially comfortable people.</p>