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<p>That’s very interesting, oldfort. </p>
<p>I think your message to the trainees who do drink alcohol and who might be tempted to overindulge, college-style, is fairly obvious. But I’m curious about how you advise those trainees who do not intend to drink alcoholic beverages at the parties. What do you say to them?</p>
<p>We do not advocate drinking. But I have advised some of them, in order not to stick out or get in a situation of discussion why they are not drinking (that is sad to say, I know) just to hold a glass wine or beer. If it’s full, people won’t keep on refilling it, and people that drink will most likely not notice that you are not drinking fast. If they should take too many sips and start getting tipsy, then lots of water with lime.</p>
<p>Just a note; both my kids drink. My daughter not very much, and not very often. My son? I don’t know, but he’s got a good head on his shoulders and is aware of the consequences, and I trust that when he drinks, it is in moderation. Both of them enjoy plenty of activities coldstone sober, and their school has lots of things going on to enjoy.<br>
One of the things I did when he was in high school was to get some of the free “Sam Spady” wallet cards, to give to him and to his friends. [Sam</a> Spady Foundation Wallet Cards](<a href=“http://www.samspadyfoundation.org/cards.html]Sam”>http://www.samspadyfoundation.org/cards.html) The foundation was started by parents who lost their daughter in an alcohol poisoning case. It includes the signs of alcohol poisoning and what to do.</p>
<p>D definitely drinks, but at Barnard it’s cocktails. How much can they afford? Although there are some fabulously wealthy kids who sometimes provide. She claims she has never gotten buzzed at all. We share a cocktail occasionally and I feel it at two sips; she finishes and doesn’t feel anything. </p>
<p>S doesn’t drink because the smell of alcohol makes him ill. </p>
<p>I did not mean to be moralistic or judgmental in posting that he doesn’t drink at all.</p>
<p>D thinks he’s a big nerd. Standing up to his sister is his most difficult task. I’ve adivised him never to do anything that he feels so repelled by. That’s why he’s going EMT route because he suspects this will be an ongoing situation.</p>
<p>I think he feels protective of his friends who drink. He wants to be close by them and not seek out other activities.</p>
<p>That’s interesting, oldfort.</p>
<p>Several decades ago, I had a job that required attending social functions, and I cannot drink any alcohol at all for a medical reason. If there was a cash bar where I could order a drink inconspicuously, I used to get plain tonic water so that at least I could drink it if I got thirsty. But if I had to place my order in front of people, I would ask for a glass of wine and not drink it. I found it most unpleasant, though, to spend several hours standing in a hot room holding a beverage and being unable to drink it even though I was thirsty. </p>
<p>I haven’t had to attend business social functions for a couple of decades now, and I was kind of hoping that acceptance of abstinence from alcohol had improved. Evidently, it has not.</p>
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I think most activities are safer to do while sober, sex most definitely included (remembering a condom, using it correctly, getting and keeping “consent”–quotes since drunk people technically can’t consent, not having sex with inappropriate or generally creepy people, not having sex in appropriate places, etc.). </p>
<p>I drink up to a few times a week but almost never get drunk more than once or twice a week. Someone earlier asked why college students drink such bad, cheap drinks; the wallet is a limiting factor, but there are some drinks that I definitely favor and drink much more often than any sort of misc light beer (whiskey and good, dark beers top my list). I love the social aspect of drinking, feeling loose and happy with my friends. I rarely get sick from drinking, but it has happened. I get good grades. I don’t usually make bad decisions while drinking. I like to think that people don’t see me as pathetic while drinking, though maybe some non-drinkers would. </p>
<p>Anyway, most of my friends drink, but I do know people who abstain or drink very moderately. Some of these people can go to parties and have fun with everyone else; others give the constant impression of disapproval or awkwardness. I don’t think it’s hard on my campus to find things to do on drinking days besides drinking. My friends and I stay in most Saturday nights, and we watch chick flicks or find something else to do. It’s always easy to find other people who are staying in, but then again my college is not at all known as a party school. A lot of people have suggested going to campus events, like movie showings, concerts, or plays. Those are all good ideas, but the timing may be off. Most campus shows or activities are earlier in the night than when people go out. I know at my school things to do generally end in time for people to go out afterwards (most people go out around 11:30 PM).</p>
<p>I don’t think there is any need to hold beer or wine, you can hold water, sparkling water, oj, whatever. I don’t drink alcohol but am a normal thirsty person and don’t really think of a beverage as a prop - it’s something to drink.</p>
<p>I also don’t get the idea that kids have to be taught to drink. It’s really not that big a deal not to drink and that can be a choice for life. I don’t think I’ve been pressured to drink more then a couple of times and even then, I thought the people trying to talk me into it were jerks and told them so.</p>
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<p>My middle-aged nondrinking self agrees with you. (Nowadays, when it’s available, I openly drink iced tea, which does not resemble any alcoholic beverage that I know of – it’s simply what I prefer to drink.) My younger nondrinking self would also agree with you, if the situation was purely social (my friends knew that I didn’t drink anyway). But for a young person in a business/social situation, the realities may be different. </p>
<p>There is also the problem of the young woman who ordinarily drinks alcoholic beverages in business/social situations and then suddenly stops doing so. Everyone thinks that she’s trying to get pregnant or is already pregnant, something that (if it happens to be true) she may not yet be ready to reveal to her employer or colleagues. The drink-as-prop may be essential to her privacy.</p>
<p>It is a personal choice to drink or not to drink, therefore I tell my kids not to put themselves out where they would need to explain themselves or tell anyone off.</p>
<p>Alcohol is not a bad thing, just like cookies or red meat. We are not teaching them to drink, but to teach them to do it responsibly. I do not eat sweets normally because I do not like it, but I would always accept a piece of desert to make everyone comfortable in having theirs (you know how competive women are about weight).</p>
<p>I am getting a bit out of topic here, but I don’t want people here to think I am advocating to teach kids to drink.</p>
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<p>Ironically, the very fact that you and many other people who are sensitive to the feelings of others do this to be courteous makes life more difficult for the diabetic who cannot eat the dessert and does not wish to reveal that he/she is a diabetic.</p>
<p>It’s very much the same with alcohol. If those who ordinarily do not drink alcoholic beverages but who do not absolutely have to abstain choose to drink in small amounts to help create a comfortable social situation, they inadvertently create a situation where those who cannot drink alcohol at all (Muslims, Mormons, pregnant women, recovering alcoholics, those with medical conditions in which alcohol is contraindicated) are made to feel even more out of place (or to carry around drinks as props). As a person who has many times pretended to be drinking alcohol when in fact I was not, I am as guilty of contributing to other people’s discomfort as the reluctant dessert eater.</p>
<p>I wish I knew a good solution to these conundrums. I don’t. I think that it does help, though, if you live in a multicultural community where there are lots of people following a variety of different religious and cultural patterns, most of which the rest of the people in the room do not understand. In that kind of environment, it is obviously inappropriate to encourage anyone to consume anything to which they have said, “No, thank you.” That makes life easier all around.</p>
<p>coranged–you say you “almost never get drunk more than once or twice a week.” I would bet that people give you pitying looks at least that often. They may be people you don’t know or care about, or they may be people who do know you.</p>
<p>And you say you don’t “usually” make bad decisions while drinking. I hope you never make a really bad, irreversible or fatal decision while drinking.</p>
<p>Marian–I agree. Whether it’s a drink, dessert, or a second helping when I am absolutely stuffed, thankyouverymuch, I hate being pressured. I know what my limits are, and what I like to eat/drink, better than anyone else.</p>
<p>I remember in college, at first I “only” got drunk a couple of times a week. Hey, work hard, party hard!!! Right? Not hurting anyone!!! Right? </p>
<p>Where did the next 15 years go? Oh, yeah, partied more hardy. Besides, you only hurt yourself and those who loved you.</p>
<p>In 5 days it will have been 25 years w/o. The only people I’ve ever experienced to “push” me to have a drink are those who are uncomfortable being around someone who DOESN’T drink, i.e., active (non-recovering)drunks. </p>
<p>Someone asks: “care for a drink?” Answer: “no thanks.” Come back: “you sure?” Answer: “yes.” On RARE occasion: “What, don’t you drink?” Answer: “I fought that battle long ago and I lost.” NEVER have I had it go past that. And, on several occassions the person starts to relate the alcoholics in their past. </p>
<p>Just say no. Works with drugs, alcohol, food, extra-marital sex, white collar crime, etc. You don’t need protective cover to make the right personal choices. And, I think you owe it to your children to tell them that.</p>
<p>Good advice. Congratulations on continuing your recovery!</p>
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OK, this isn’t really on the topic of the thread, and I don’t want this thread to be about me, but I know for a fact that my friends do not think that I am pitiful. Do other people? If I don’t know them, I have no idea what or how they think. If someone judges me negatively for drinking alcohol on a Friday night in college, we probably wouldn’t get along very well anyway to be honest with you. (Condescension is something I really can’t stand among my friends.) I doubt I’m given pitying looks every time I drink if only for the simple reason that when I drink I’m with other people who drink and sober friends. I also tend to be on the put-together side of things since most people get drunker more quickly than I do (the higher tolerance is natural, not because of frequent drinking, by the way). My “bad” decisions while drinking are pretty tame, if you must know. I actually hesitated while writing that sentence because I don’t really regret anything I’ve done while drinking. I don’t want to get too personal here, but I was thinking along the lines of drinking 1-2 drinks too many or having (safe, private) sex with someone I may not have had sex with while sober. </p>
<p>Another poster used this phrase already, but I think I have a pretty good head on my shoulders. When I was drinking too much last year (getting drunk 3 days a week, drinking 4 days a week), I recognized it and cut back. Right now, I feel comfortable with my drinking habits and my behavior when I drink. I actually had a session with the psychotherapist at my college who specializes in drugs and alcohol to talk through something that had happened, and after asking me about my drinking habits and history he said he didn’t think my drinking was a problem–so I’m going to go with him on this one. I also have a medical condition that’s not great with alcohol, so I keep an eye on my drinking levels for that, too. </p>
<p>My job last summer was one that included frequent drinking. I went to maybe 15 open-bar events and cocktail parties. I’m not a huge wine fan, so usually at these events I’d nurse one or two glasses of wine throughout the night (though at some events I’d have a beer, or coke, or champaign). I never got the least bit tipsy. I never felt awkward drinking a non-alcoholic drink if I wanted to or turning down the last celebratory drink that most staff had after events. Like 07 said, all you have to say is “no” and be sure of yourself. If you don’t want to drink, don’t apologize for it. I don’t really see problem. At work events, you can drink, not drink, or pretend to drink. As long as you’re responsible and respectful, I don’t think you should have a problem.</p>
<p>I’m a lightweight, and only like to drink margaritas- and those, infrequently. I feel completely comfortable drinking water, fizzy water, juice or whatever when other people are drinking alcohol.</p>
<p>07Dad–good for you! :)</p>
<p>corranged</p>
<p>I have confidence in you.</p>
<p>Yes! I think I am going to chat with him come Christmas break about getting involved in on-campus ECs. He loves to teach and wants to tutor but the school doesn’t allow him to tutor in freshman year. But movie clubs, board-game clubs, helping out with drama dept sound like great ideas. </p>
<p>Thanks folks! It’s really comforting to be able to chat with all of you.</p>
<p>as for a drink of soda as a prop…what it does is stop people from asking if they can get you something to drink, when you are empty handed at a party, it is courtesy for the host to ask, do you want anything? </p>
<p>my mother in law pretty much forces tea or coffee on you when you are at her house…she feels like she isn’t a good hostess if she can’t offer you a beverage</p>
<p>I don’t drink coffee or tea, don’t like the taste…so I will say yes to something- water, juice…she then relaxes</p>
<p>drives me nuts, but in a social world…its not a bad thing to have a prop= it doesn’t take anything away from the choices one makes</p>
<p>In my mind the important thing here is that everyone be at their own comfort level. As a vegetarian I am often hounded by people about why I dont’ eat meat. I never make a fuss about not eating something, never moralize to other people about what they eat, but I don’t put up with someone pressuring me. Same goes for alcohol. I can take it or leave it. Love good wine but sometimes I go to a function knowing I have to drive or knowing that I want to be fully alert because of business reasons. On those occassions, I order a tonic water or a water or diet coke. I would never think of letting anyone pressure me into ordering a drink or of holding a drink as a prop.</p>