Depends.
Therein lies the conflict. What are they trying to signal? (HINT: sometimes, it’s just that they like that shirt in particular.)
There are so many better uses of our emotional and intellectual resources than judging each other all the time.
No, it’s not that simple. What do you mean, “you shouldn’t make comments about it?” Do you mean to the person whose behavior or dress you disagree with? Or you aren’t allowed to make a comment about it to someone else? Who are you allowed to tell your opinion to?
Some but not most in my opinion bodangles. People project what they want to project, very few adults are clueless about what their attire signals. I’d give a 15 or 16 year old a pass and as a parent I might intervene but once someone is an adult I think they know what they are projecting…and it’s their right to do so. Doesn’t mean that everyone is going to keep their mouths shut behind their backs. I might, but the next person might not. I don’t like the word, but there are plenty of words that can be stigmatizing and lots of words I won’t use and I don’t like. Awareness is a good thing, but until we move on from this type of language in music and the mainstream it’s going to be there and used by some people and used by some people to evoke an emotion more than anything.
Nobody’s disallowing anything, @busdriver11 .
^^Then I don’t know what that means, “you shouldn’t make comments about it”. To whom? Anyone? Or to the individual? Saying something to the individual would obviously be rude.
True…I kinda liked John Mill’s "On Liberty’ back in my college days. it’s my opinion (smiling) that suppressing opinions is dangerous.
I don’t call women “sluts” and i have no problem with any woman freely exercising her sexuality as she sees fit, unless she or others are being hurt by it. (The same applies to men.)
Like Hayden, what I do have a problem with is women abasing themselves for men’s approval, and actively participating in the objectification of women.
There are things that people do because their survival depends on it. There are things that people do because it is in their nature to cut corners, cheat, take the easy way out, or sell themselves in one way or another. It’s the difference between stealing the proverbial loaf of bread to feed your starving child, and plagiarizing your doctoral thesis. I don’t buy the notion that being a “sex worker” is just A-OK and a perfectly healthy choice of career for a woman. (Or a man.) I don’t buy the notion that patronizing strip clubs is harmless fun, either.
What bothers me is I think we are still talking about interpretation.
How do we know women debase themselves for someone else’s approval and not for their own gratification?
Do we wear lipstick and high heels for ourselves or to attract men? Does it have to be one or the other?
In some eras makeup is okay. In others it is only worn by prostitutes or women who are slut shamed, actresses and so on. What is acceptable in personal presentation isn’t constant.
The older I get the less I think I understand about all this.
adding: Now I have to think about how we get from a Gibson Girl advertisement to Kardashians. And look to earlier centuries for depictions of women in media of the time.
Sometimes, women just can’t win. Last summer, who got in trouble for wearing modest bathing suits? Muslim women in France, because they were creating a “security risk”. Someone printed a photo at that time showing a woman in the 1950’s getting a ticket for wearing a bikini. It’s always our fault.
Still, I’ve had to firmly bite my tongue when my daughters show me some proposed outfits. I’m getting good at it!
I also remember an episode of “Say yes to the dress” where a woman came in and said she wanted a dress that was a little slutty. Randy was quite flustered. She chose something she liked, and it was perfectly fine, but to her - a little slutty - and that was a good thing. She and her circle had clearly reinterpreted the word to take all the heat and negativity out of it. Randy kept insisting, “you mean sexy, right?”. Nope.
^ really love that story!
Why would you bite your tongue with your own daughters? Is “anything goes” just fine? I think if I had daughters, I would want them to dress as if they respected themselves. Sure, you may get plenty of male attention if you dress like a sleaze, but is that the attention you want? Maybe that’s what some women want, but the illusion that they will still be respected and everyone will think about them and treat them exactly the same as if they didn’t, is a complete fantasy.
It’s just the truth. Pretending otherwise isn’t doing women any favors (I’m not saying you specifically are).
All, with regard to your comment about changing fashion, Pope (A, not The) wrote a line I always liked. Something like “Be not the first by whom the new is tried, nor yet the last to lay the old aside.”
I believe that is exactly the kind of judgment that’s in question here. Why do you think women who wear short shorts or a low-cut top don’t respect themselves? Are burkas the utmost of respect for oneself? Do I respect myself more in jeans than in capris?
I didn’t know about burkinis until the France BS. I am now thinking about getting one for the summer. I avoided swimming this summer during the day because the sun triggers lupus flares.
So I’m wearing a burkini for health purposes and someone else is wearing it for modesty purposes. Do we both get a ticket or whatever? I’d bet we’d both get either open glares or at least the side eye because others are imposing their own interpretations and judgments about the burkinis on us.
It’s the opposite of what’s generally being discussed here but the point remains the same- your interpretations of why someone is wearing X shouldn’t matter one bit. The only thing that matters is that someone is freely dressing and acting the way they want to.
**Notice I said “freely” before anyone throws out that Muslim women are “required” or “coerced” into whatever garb.
Bodangles, no doubt it’s a matter of opinion. If you’re on the beach, I think people can wear whatever they want. If they’re in the workplace, dress appropriately. Are extremely low cut blouses and shorts that show half your butt appropriate at work? Maybe if you work at Hooters. There is a wide chasm between wearing a burka and a strippers outfit.
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s to a couple minutes to race for most events – followed by long periods of waiting around to do it again. During major competitions, the girls (at least in our state) started lowering the straps and wearing bikini tops during the down time to ease the pressure on their shoulders caused by the suits.
The state high school athletics association did not like the girls wearing bikini tops at the meets, so they passed a rule prohibiting the girls from wearing a bikini top without a t-shirt covering it at all times during all high school swim meets. Remember, we are talking about SWIMMING, at a POOL, and not during any actual RACE. Nothing about this rule has anything to do with competing, it is only that they decided that the girls should not show their bodies.
Meanwhile, there is no similar rule for the boys
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Well, as long as we accept that women can’t go topless, then I guess we have to accept that some entity (in this case, a school) can decide how much of a female’s “top” must be covered.
And apparently there are people who think they know what’s inside other people’s hearts and minds. Do you really think you can judge other people’s motivations for their actions? Do you think strangers and acquaintances can judge you that well?
The way one dresses can’t reasonably be linked to one’s self-respect. There’s no way to justify that assumption.