What have you taught your teen about handling unwanted romantic attention?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Well…that’s my point. Read the survey here: <a href=“http://media.thecrimson.com/NewsMedia/commencement09/classof2009/2009section.pdf[/url]”>http://media.thecrimson.com/NewsMedia/commencement09/classof2009/2009section.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>69% of the Harvard seniors who responded had 2 or fewer sexual partners during college. Remember that this statistic will include gay as well as straight students. Now, personally, I think sex belongs in marriage, but those statistics indicate that the hook-up culture is not as widespread as you might believe.</p>

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<p>Jonri:</p>

<p>Fairenough, even though data you provide is for less than 1% of harvard graduating class, and statiscally insignificant. However, I have no data to prove otherwise. Thus, for time being, your argument stands.</p>

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<p>Harvard will be graduating 50000 this yr?</p>

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<p>I really don’t understand post #32. My understanding is that about 500 seniors responded to the survey. That’s not great, but it is roughly 30% of the class–NOT 1%. A narrow MAJORITY of those who responded said that they had had sex with 0 or 1 person during their 4 years at college. 69% had had sex with 0-2. </p>

<p>Anyway, anyone can read the info for him-/herself, but it doesn’t seem that the hook up culture is that widespread.</p>

<p>Where the heck did you get the 1% figure from?</p>

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<p>The 1% was incorrect.</p>

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<p>Could someone please address my question from #37:</p>

<p>Does being evasive, indirect, or even saying “yes” for one date actually help in dealing with obtuse or not-going-away-quietly men?</p>

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<p>ADad, you combined two different posts in one quote (mine, and MagnoliaMom’s), which is confusing. </p>

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<p>I don’t know if this is a rhetorical question or if you’re being facetious, but the answer is pretty self evident. My point was that the reason some girls have trouble saying “No”, clearly, apart from worrying about being nice, is that they are (rightly) afraid of unwanted consequences. Obviously, in an ideal world, young women should be able to state clearly their wants, desires, and needs without fear of negative consequences.
What is your point in asking this question (twice)?</p>

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<p>I didn’t get an answer to my question the first time.</p>

<p>As you said, the thrust of many posts here is that women fear the consequences of saying no. My question, which is not rhetorical, particularly given that I have a teenage daughter myself, is: how does “being nice” helps women avoid such consequences? </p>

<p>One might perfectly well think that “being nice” encourages the obtuse, unwelcome, insistent men. One might perfectly well think that “being nice” merely puts off the day of reckoning, and makes that day even more difficult.</p>

<p>I am hoping that those who advocate the “be nice” approach can share the reasoning or experiences that would argue against what “one might think” and in favor of “being nice”.</p>

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<p>I’d agree with Adad on that one(post 48), and I think I’d add something. Remember that in this thread most define “being nice” as lying. For those who think <em>being nice</em> is telling a lie to express disinterest, how is it that lying is nice? And doesn’t that also risk even greater repercussions? When a boy catches on after multiple lies, might he think- “She not only won’t go out with me, but she also deliberately deceived me!”. How does that help?</p>

<p>I’d add too that although a polite direct answer to non-threatening interest seems best to me, it isn’t clear to all here. Some here didn’t understand the question. Not all know an answer. If it were clear to all here then this very thread wouldn’t have started. Missiepie asked to find out how others handle it. That indicates there isn’t one clear answer.</p>

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<p>I think there are two issues that contribute to this problem:</p>

<p>1) Girls are socialized not to hurt people’s feelings, so they often give an excuse rather than an outright No. To them it’s obvious that it’s a face-saving way of saying No, but often it isn’t obvious to the boy.</p>

<p>2) Even when the girl is direct in her refusal, our culture tells boys that No isn’t the end of the discussion, it’s the start of a negotiation. </p>

<p>Getting girls to give an outright No is only half the battle. The other half is getting boys not to simply view that as a challenge to be overcome.</p>

<p>“We have to teach young people that ‘No’ is a complete sentence.” - Gavin de Becker, author of The Gift of Fear.</p>

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<p>I would hope to think that lunit’s explanation(post 50) is meant in the past tense. I hope that today’s parents of teens and soon-to-be teens aren’t teaching this way of thinking to girls. IMO leading a boy on by intentionally having just one date, or lying to him about <em>being busy</em> again and again(when she’s really not too busy) until he finally tires of asking isn’t sparing his feelings. Being busy does not mean I don’t want to go. I believe it is harder on the boy, especially if he finds out later the girl has tricked him. </p>

<p>Perhaps it’s a m/f perspective but I don’t quite see how when a girl says “she’s busy and can’t go out” that a 15, 16, 17, yr old boy is supposed to grasp that what she really means is “no, I’m not interested in dating you”. If it happens again and again then I can see it. It is difficult for those that try to teach a child that “no” means “no” when “I can’t go because I’m busy that night” really means “No, I’m not interested in you. Don’t ask again” The idea that <em>sometimes I say what I mean, and sometimes I don’t, but you are still expected to know what I mean</em> makes it hard to believe that no means no. Do you mean what you say or don’t you? Hopefully today’s parents will realize that according to some in this thread girls have used a secret code book, and teen boys didn’t have a decoder; and that that way of parenting has led to problems.</p>

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<p>[Perhaps it’s a m/f perspective but I don’t quite see how when a girl says “she’s busy and can’t go out” that a 15, 16, 17, yr old boy is supposed to grasp that what she really means is “no, I’m not interested in dating you”. If it happens again and again then I can see it. It is difficult for those that try to teach a child that “no” means “no” when “I can’t go because I’m busy that night” really means “No, I’m not interested in you. Don’t ask again” The idea that <em>sometimes I say what I mean, and sometimes I don’t, but you are still expected to know what I mean</em> makes it hard to believe that no means no. Do you mean what you say or don’t you?]</p>

<p>It’s good practice for marriage.</p>

<p>If a boy is confused, he should just ask his dad.</p>

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<p>BCEagle91, I’m so glad someone brought a perspective with a little humor into this conversation! Thank you for that.</p>

<p>For some of the more serious minded posters, please keep in mind that every situation is different so don’t be so quick to judge. There’s much more gray in this world than black and white. I don’t think anyone “teaches” a way of thinking to girls that would purposely encourage hurtful behavior.</p>

<p>Many girls aren’t going to assume that just because a guy asks them to get coffee or play tennis that it’s a “date”, so they may go just thinking “maybe he’s just being friendly and that’s cool” when the guy sees it clearly as a date. It may not be until later that the boy admits that his feelings are more than friendship or he may not admit it at all. One friend of D actually told a boy that she just enjoyed his friendship and didn’t want to go on a date with him, only to have the boy reply that he had not intended it as a “date” but only wanted to hang out as friends.</p>

<p>As a matter of fact, my husband and I met fresh out of college at work; he called me during work hours and asked if I wanted to go to the company softball game. I had no clue at the time if he meant it as a co-worker friend kind of thing or as a “date”. My only thought was “company softball game, that sounds fun” not “is this a date, do I have to decide now if I want to pursue anything with him, I don’t know him well but is it leading him on if I go”.</p>

<p>Many girls that age feel like they are trying to give a boy the benefit of the doubt by going on one date with him, or spending time with him once, to get to know him. In other words, maybe they don’t know him well and are willing to spend a few hours and a conversation with him to see if they may have interest in getting to know him better, whether its for friendship or dating. If a cup of coffee and a conversation are leading someone on, then whoa…</p>

<p>My comments are based only on observation and conversation of my D and her friends and from driving during high school years before they could drive as well as the comments from my male and female college aged student workers (I work on a college campus). </p>

<p>BTW being evasive and non-direct isn’t a practice limited to girls by any means. What about when a boy asks a girl if she’d like to go out, gets her number and then never calls…it happens frequently in college these days from what I hear, to the point where the girls just roll their eyes when they say they met a boy and he asked for their number.</p>

<p>men are from mars, women are from venus…</p>

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<p>Reminds me of the Frasier episode, where he never knows if he’s on a date with the woman, not even when they’re in bed together.</p>

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<p>I have an adult story too that doesn’t address turning down the unwanted teen romantic attention in the Op’s question. </p>

<p>It doesn’t answer the op’s question, but I hope readers will find it funny.
At about 28, I went out to a very nice, very pricey dinner with a young woman. I had asked her out(intending a date) but she had specified that she’d go(and I agreed) only “just as friends.” I believed her saying she’s go but just as friends was her way of indicating the dinner sounded fun but she was turning down unwanted young adult romantic attention. Although I held doors open for this young lady as I believe good manners dictate, I had no expectations of anything romantic. At the end of a very pleasant meal I explained to the waiter we were “just friends” and asked for separate checks. She seemed surprised, but paid her share. Did I say no expectations of anything romantic? She didn’t even speak to me on the 1/2 hr ride home! Later I realized what she really meant when she said “just friends”. She meant she’d reap the benefit of all the perks a lady might get out on a dinner date, but at the end of the evening no <em>hand-holding</em>. That isn’t going out as a friend- that’s a user. In my book, friends are not obligated or expected to pay for the other’s meal if they go out. Friends that go out frequently might <em>go Dutch</em> or take turns; but obligated? Heck no.</p>

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<p>younghoss, that’s priceless! thanks for sharing!</p>

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<p>^Agreed, you can’t have it both ways…</p>

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<p>OK, here’s my 16-year-old daughter’s answer:</p>

<p>"If it’s a nice guy, I’d probably say, ‘I’m sorry, I think you’re a really nice person, but I just don’t feel that way about you.’ I don’t want to hurt his feelings if he’s a nice person, and I don’t want his friends to think I’m a beeyotch and hate me for being rude and mean to him.</p>

<p>“If it’s a creepy guy, I’d give him a really definite No. If he’s creepy, everybody knows it and they aren’t going to think I’m mean for giving him a flat-out No. And if he’s a creepy stalker it’s better not to give him any reason to keep asking. I don’t want to end up in a ditch somewhere.”</p>

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<p>BCEagle91, here’s how to tell the difference:</p>

<p>If she says, “Sorry, I’m busy,” she’s not interested.</p>

<p>If she says, “I’d love to but I’m busy that night, how about the next Saturday instead?”, it’s Yes.</p>

<p>And honestly, this kind of thing doesn’t just happen in dating situations, and it isn’t just teenage girls who have trouble being direct about rejecting someone. Who hasn’t been in the situation where somebody you really don’t want to socialize with wants you to be their new best friend? When they invite you to do something, do you actually say to their face, “I’m sorry but I have no interest in being your friend”? Or do you tell a little white lie to soften the rejection? I’d be willing to bet 9 out of 10 people do the latter.</p>

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<p>I haven’t needed to tell the difference for 20 years. It wasn’t a big deal before that as women were generally pretty comfortable around me.</p>