<p>So, after you get the Acting/Drama BFA (with liberal arts, not a conservatory) at one of the top programs, if you can’t find a job in acting, what other opportunities are there with this degree?</p>
<p>At the top of the page, you’ll find a very good thread about drama major job prospects. The best case is made by Dr. John and the fellow from William & Mary, but their argument boils down to this: a theater degree can be a a great preparation for going back to school to get a degree in something else. Of course, that begs the question, why not major in something else to begin with? It’s a brutally tough field; many are called but few are chosen. The only reason to pursue it is because you have a deep and irresistible passion for it. Even a degree from a big name school guarantees nothing.</p>
<p>Having read that thread myself, I would interpet it differently, and I feel compelled to remark on the previous answer.</p>
<p>People I respect highly - a married couple - both have theater degrees. They say emphatically in describing their own education that they feel someone with a theater degree can confidently approach any employer with skills in organizing projects, working on a deadline, keeping to a budget, managing a staff, and all of the other skills pointed out in post #3 on the above mentioned thread. They run a very successful business and are active in local theater, very happily. I don’t believe either of them has any additional degree.</p>
<p>I don’t believe that discussion concludes that acting itself is a near-impossible profession to “succeed” in precisely because success is broadly defined. People who decide to follow a variety of paths might choose a post-graduate degree, as do many people in other professions or anyone who decides to change professions for many different reasons, not limited to actors. This does not negate the value of getting a theater degree in the first place.</p>
<p>I would say as a parent that I am glad many programs, including performance-focused BFAs include training in the technical side of theater, design, stage management, etc., and also about the theater as a “business.” While I personally agree with education for its own sake, these are valuable skills, and it is true that many graduates will find more jobs off-stage as opposed to on. </p>
<p>Being an artist myself, having worked in many different settings, I also feel that “jobs” in the arts need to be broadly defined. “Using” your degreee can mean very different things to different people. If utility was the most important thing for a college degree, many other majors besides theater would have been discarded long ago. Education has many meanings and has value beyond a simple equation.</p>
<p>Best wishes to you and your journey.</p>
<p>I’m finding a slight error in these answers. There is a considerable difference between a Liberal Arts Theater Degree (BA), and a BFA in Acting. I would not consider most BFA Acting programs a well rounded education. A lot of institutions boast a BFA in Acting in a “liberal arts setting” which basically means that you will be spending 4 years in one building studying acting, while you are in the middle of a much larger campus for an education you will be paying for but not receiving. A BFA also is not very good when applying for Grad Schools, because most Grad Schools prefer a broader education to build off of.</p>
<p>There are a lot of things you can do with a “Theater” degree because you will learn a wider variety of things, and explore history, technical and design aspects, as well as performance. But a lot of Acting BFAs skimp on the history, tech, and design. Learning how to sew and how to use power tools are skills everyone should have, and you will definitely get those in a good BA theater program, but you may miss out on those skills if you do a BFA in Acting. Make sure you ask these questions when you are applying.</p>
<p>A BFA is not messing around, and if you are willing to commit to that type of degree you must already be committed to a lifetime of acting. You are investing thousands upon thousands of dollars in your education, and unless you have money coming out of your ears (which I certainly don’t) you don’t have time to mess around in the wrong program. I would not major in a BFA Acting program unless I trusted the program fully (some of these programs are scams) and was confident in my ability to sustain myself after that point. </p>
<p>You’re right, EmmyBet, “jobs” in the arts can be more broadly defined. But “Acting,” I would say is fairly specific. A Theater Degree can prepare you for a million different jobs. Be smart, research the programs you are auditioning for.</p>
<p>That is an excellent point. I’m not an expert, just a mom who’s been doing a pretty quick but I think intensive study. I tried to say clearly that in terms of the BFAs my D is looking at, the ones I feel best about DO have as much of the broader education both in liberal arts and in theater arts as possible. One BFA director had long talk with her about what she could do with her degree, and listed many options his graduates have followed. We’re looking for schools that pay that kind of attention to their future, while allowing for the immersion that a BFA provides.</p>
<p>My D is applying to a range of programs; she loves the BFA, but knows the benefits of the BA, plus the unguaranteed nature of admissions as well as post-graduate options.</p>
<p>Knowing something very solidly can be a benefit, even in a limited-but-intensely-focused program. And I do think that “knowing” theater can be used in many ways, probably unlike “knowing” something which in itself is less broadly skilled, such as solo instrument music, etc.</p>
<p>iwhitt,</p>
<p>There certainly are major differences in these degree programs but they both have value. While primarily used in an acting career or broader acting related career as EmmyBet points out, the BFA can still be used in other non acting related careers as well. And although some additional UG courses may be needed, grad school, even in an unrelated field is still a possibility. It’s really a matter of personal preference. </p>
<p>I must admit that I do know 2 BFAs who are not working in the business and they both feel that their resume lacks a certain seriousness. But again, they ARE working and not in an acting related field so it clearly didn’t prevent them from being hired. I also know BFAs who aren’t working in the business and don’t feel that way at all.</p>
<p>In my opinion, the thinking along the lines of “I have an undergraduate degree in X, so I can only get a job in X field,” is not the way I see it. Do you think every person who majored in English has a job related to English? Every person who majored in political science is working in politics? Every major in Chemistry is working in the sciences? Every major in French is working where French is needed? No. A college degree allows you to get many jobs because you have a college education. You don’t just have your “major” but you have your education as a whole. Many career fields hire people with a college degree and train them on the job or else their skill set allows them to do what is required in many jobs (obviously not specialized things like nursing, engineering, etc.). Many jobs want people who can read, write, think, problem solve, communicate orally, organize, lead, collaborate, etc. People with a theater major, or any major, should be able to do these things and apply that to many sorts of jobs. As a parent of a kid with a BFA, I certainly feel she has been educated and could qualify for many jobs if she wanted to. </p>
<p>That said, I also feel that someone with a BFA in Acting/Theater/MT can work at many related jobs in the performing arts field, besides acting. I’ll speak of personal experience. My own kid graduated with a BFA last May and is supporting herself in NYC and all her jobs are in theater and music. She has been cast in shows and is Equity. But she also holds jobs for when she is not in a show. She has several skills in theater and music, beyond being an actor on stage. She is a writer, composer, musical director, voice coach, arranger, singer/songwriter, and accompanist. She has jobs currently doing all those things. </p>
<p>We were never ever concerned about the idea of a BFA degree not equipping our kid to work in a job. However, we are convinced that she will likely always be working and earning her living in the performing arts, sometimes ON stage, and sometimes not. She already is doing that.</p>
<p>soozievt - I think you miss the point. Having a degree in English or Chemistry or French is similar to a BA program not a BFA program; you are taking a variety of courses in many areas creating a well-rounded college education.</p>
<p>Regarding your daughter’s current jobs - was this part of the MT BFA program at NYU? She must have had years of piano and music theory and such prior to attending right? Those skills are almost a separate degree by themselves, especially with little prior knowledge.</p>
<p>That being said, I do think that a BFA program teaches you skills that are very valuable to other professions. Sales and marketing, corporate training, party planning (a large and lucrative field) to name just a few. But I’m still a greater fan of the BA over the BFA.</p>
<p>I have a BA in English and it was no use at all when it came to employment. The sole marketable skill that I acquired was writing. This enabled me to get jobs editing the writing of a great many BA grads who could not put two sentences together with making a mistake in grammar, voice, or logic. </p>
<p>There are many virtues to a liberal arts education but marketability is not one of them. In fact, just the opposite is true. Most undergraduate degrees are non-professional and only qualify the degree-holder for graduate school. It would make more sense to worry that your actor son or daughter who wants to change careers might not qualify for graduate school but this, too, is a soluble problem. They can always pick up the prerequisites at state or community colleges.</p>
<p>amtc, I agree that a BFA is not as well rounded as a BA. But I do believe that even with a BFA, you are getting an education that can serve you well in a variety of capacities and that the skills are applicable to many sorts of jobs. Further, my kid got her BFA at NYU/Tisch which has many liberal arts type courses as part of the degree…not as many as in a BA but more than some BFA programs. So, she learned more than singing, acting, and dancing at NYU and wrote tons of papers and what not. </p>
<p>Regarding my own daughter…she does have a variety of skill sets and she further developed them in college where, for example, she did a lot of writing, composing, arranging, accompanying, and musically directing. Yes, she has played piano her entire life. She has never taken a music theory class but is excellent at music theory. She placed out of that requirement at Tisch in fact, though never had a course in it in high school. While she is not trained as a composer (her BFA is in Drama), she is indeed a composer, lyricist and songwriter. I just returned from NYC where we went to see her in her own gig of original songs at a well known club in NYC (she has many such gigs in the city and is cutting an album as well). She wrote a musical while in college that is now being professionally produced. She developed these skills in college, even if not through formal coursework. She did many of these things extracurricularly in college. It helps to have a variety of skill sets. Being a musical director is often in demand. She can be paid well doing these things and is able to earn a living while auditioning, and staying in the performing arts, and I doubt she will ever waitress 
(nothing wrong with that, however). Even if your degree doesn’t “teach” things like writing or musically directing, some people have certain skills. My D happens to be a very skilled writer and has always written very well. I’m sure those skills were honed in college. She is also very musically inclined. She has been involved in music her entire life and that is not unique for a MT kid (she also played two instruments growing up). Basically, if you develop a variety of skill sets (could be choreography, for example…she did a lot of that prior to college too…or maybe costuming, stage managing, etc.), there are a variety of jobs related to theater, besides acting. Someone with a BFA could get jobs in the arts field, even if not on stage. Not to mention…in other professions where the skill sets of a theater person come in handy.</p>
<p>PS…one more thing…my kid went to college in NYC and between who she met in college and who she met in NYC the past four years of college…she has a growing network and one thing has led to another…she even turns down jobs and gets jobs for her friends all the time. There is a life for those in the theater and music world (she is in musical theater, not just acting) in NYC and one can piece together many small jobs and earn a living, while auditioning, or in between shows.</p>
<p>@soozievt: Excellent point! Looking over the list of famous graduates of my alma mater, McGill, I came across the following:</p>
<p>William Shatner, degree in business, became an actor
Jake Eberts, degree in engineering, became a movie producer
Kate McGarrigle, degree in science, became a singer/songwriter</p>
<p>What you want to consider is what sort of marketable skills you are going to have when you graduate. The original question is about Acting/Drama BFAs, not musical theater BFAs. Let’s remember that an Acting/Drama BFA does not necessarily teach all of these instruments and skills that are being discussed. Ultimately, Acting training teaches you to use one thing, your body. That is to build skill sets in movement, voice, and guile. These are ultimately useful in life no matter where you end up. It will help you get any job there is to offer because it teaches you how to market yourself well and how to look good. </p>
<p>However, when a company puts out a position for a high paying job, they are looking for specific skill sets. Yes, this may include piano, other musical instruments, composers, lyricists, etc. But remember, this is not included in and Acting BFA. You are thinking about a Musical Theater BFA. Let’s assume her daughter has none of these skills, that she got excellent marks in high school, is accepted into a great school with a big name, and gets a BFA in Acting. She has the potential for graduating with many contacts in the Theater business, and will have taken many performance classes. Maybe she has even perfected her craft (however this is very unlikely at her age, young actors simply are not regarded as good performers, Sandford Meisner said it takes 20 years to becomes a good actor… then again he also said that the worst acting training takes place in Academia, so I guess I’m posting this on the wrong bulletin). </p>
<p>Alright, so we’ve got this well trained young actor with a million theater contacts.</p>
<p>But the question is not whether or not she will be prepared to go into theater. The question is what are her fallbacks. </p>
<p>Well, she can go to grad school, get an MFA in Acting and become a college professor, however it’s hard to get into an MFA with a BFA, because grad programs are looking for students who did not specialize. Also, most good BFA programs discourage grad school, they want students to go out and get jobs and advertise for the school (these actors put their colleges on their resumes!). </p>
<p>So both of those options still involve the theater. What if that’s simply not working. You get out of school, try the business for 5 years, and it’s just not working. What do you do?</p>
<p>Well, what are your marketable skills? Your body. So we need to start thinking about what you can do with that. Other than perform, all you can basically do is teach others to perform. That’s why we get so many stereotypical angry high school drama teachers, because all they are trained to do is perform, or teach others to perform (and the cycle continues). </p>
<p>You will also have people skills, so let’s not throw away being a telephone operator, or a customer service representative. Not quite the flashing lights of broadway, but hey, if you keep doing this for 20 years eventually you gotta be able to pay off those loans… right? Tisch is only gonna be like 100k in loans. But you can totally drop out like Lady Gaga and bleed to death at the MTV music awards for millions of dollars.</p>
<p>You should really check the statistics of these BFA programs and find out exactly what percentage of alumni are still working actors. The numbers are not pretty. It doesn’t matter if famous people graduated from where you go! It matters if you are famous! No one is going to hire you just because William Shatner went to your school. They want to know if you you have the skills that they require for the position. Yeah, John Turturro, Michael Badalucco, Scott Cohen, and Michael Gladis when to New Paltz, a non-BFA theater program. But no casting director is going to look at your school and immediately think of the alumni, Juilliard and Yale being two glaring exceptions.</p>
<p>Honestly, I would recommend looking at programs that give a BS in Theater. I’m at SUNY New Paltz and that’s what I’m looking at. It’s halfway between a BFA and a BA. A BA requires 90 liberal arts credits, a BS requires 60, and a BFA requires 30. On paper, these are the differences.</p>
<p>While the question is about Acting BFAs, the points are not much different in my view. By the way, my kid has a BFA in Drama. She trained in both a MT studio and an acting studio while at Tisch. The point was that those with a BFA can work in many fields. But also those with a BFA who have several skill sets, can often get work in the performing arts other than being on stage. By the way, it was in my D’s ACTING studio, that she wrote/composed/produced a musical. As well, a faculty member in Theater Studies (liberal arts requirement, not studio) and another faculty member in her acting studio, have also hired her for jobs outside the university setting. She also knows many acting students who did not train in the MT studio who work as singers as well. My D also coaches. While some say she may have had some of these skills prior to college, the fact is that she honed these skills IN college (both in classes and in extracurricular endeavors) and that people would not be paying her so quickly to do all the professional jobs she is doing now, had she not had a degree and the experiences she gained while IN college.</p>
<p>and that’s great for her! But fallback implies what sorts of non-theater jobs are opened up from a BFA in Acting/Drama… What non-theater related jobs is she doing?</p>
<p>A BFA in acting will have a difficult time of it, iwhitt, but I think the same is true of someone with a BA or BS in theater. I’m not sure what you’ll learn as a BS that is a solidly marketable skill. Above, you mention “history, technical and design aspects” but history, of course, is not marketable, and a few courses and some crew assignments in technical and/or design are not enough for a career. If you really want to a good job in design or tech, you need a concentration in design or tech. </p>
<p>I have to take issue, too, with your comment about a BFA meaning a commitment to a lifetime of acting. An undergrad degree is not a commitment to a lifetime of anything. You will most likely have several careers in the course of your life, and switching is rarely seamless, no matter what.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sorry, I don’t agree. “Fallback” is what jobs can you do to earn a living when you are not cast on stage in a show (which is a primary goal of an actor, after all). My D’s fallback jobs to earn a living are related to the arts. She is going for it as an actor on stage in shows, but meanwhile has to earn a living when not cast (she has been cast part of the year she has been out of college), and she CHOOSES to earn money and create jobs for herself to do so in areas that interest her, rather than take unrelated jobs to the arts. Some of her friends wait tables while auditioning. She opts to earn a nice rate of pay doing jobs in the arts world. She also can earn nice hourly wages doing these sorts of jobs. There is no rule that your fallback jobs to acting in shows has to be OUTSIDE the arts ! She never planned for fallback jobs outside the arts and likely won’t be doing that any time soon. Her life is in the arts. She may be on stage at times if cast, and working in other capacities in the arts if not cast in a show at any given time. She has no interest in a fallback career outside the world of the arts. Also, believe it or not, she LOVES her so called “fallback” jobs. She is as interested in most of them as much as she is in being an actor on stage. She enjoys her work. She doesn’t consider these jobs “Oh, I have to do this because I am not in a show but I dpn’t really want to be doing this.” She found fallback jobs that she wants to do. She loves to act/sing/perform, but she truly enjoys several things and is skilled at more than one thing. In fact, she has CHOSEN to not audition for several months at the moment because she is very involved in several other meaningful projects that also mean a lot to her as well. Why does someone have to do a fallback job outside the world of the arts, if your fallback job (not acting) can earn you $35/hour? She prefers that to a job that may even earn less as a fallback job outside the arts. Also, you are in college, but not sure you realize it but the “fallback jobs” need to have flexibility so that you can be available to audition! That is the nature of her jobs. They are not 9-5 jobs. They are flexible in many cases and allow her time to audition if she so chooses.</p>
<p>I disagree that a concentration is in design or tech is a necessity, and I did not imply that those would prepare anyone for a career in tech/design. But taking classes in costume construction and stage craft are absolutely helpful in a huge variety of “fallback” jobs, well outside the theater. My theater department requires not only those classes to be taken by all majors, regardless of concentration, but it requires 40-50 hours of labor per class, as well as 4 additional semesters of technical work, 40 hours each. This accounts to at least 240 hours of labor on stage craft or costume construction, even for performance concentration students. A concentration in design and tech would not necessarily mean more experience with these skills, but more of a focus on design aspects and computer technology. These basic skills of sewing, and using a wide variety of complicated power tools are drilled into us intensely, and we as students are well prepared to market those skills if we do so wish, and few graduate who are not. Many BFA programs (such as SUNY Purchase) do not even permit students to take these classes because of time restraints.</p>
<p>Okay, fair enough, but the sorts of jobs you can get knowing the fundamentals of sewing and power tools are not necessarily better-paying or more interesting than waiting tables or teaching traffic school classes (a favorite for out-of-work actors in LA). </p>
<p>My husband has a BA in theater which, among other things and after several years, led to work as a journeyman carpenter where he was at the mercy of the housing market. Eventually, he went back to school to get an MBA. </p>
<p>I’m glad you’re getting the real-life skills necessary to make and repair things. These are valuable in itself and can lead to all sorts of things. However, it may not help too much as a fallback plan.</p>
<p>iwhitt: You are a very thoughtful and intelligent person (notice I didn’t say kid!). Your posts are very important in this conversation. And since my D is very interested in New Paltz, I’m reading what you say with particular interest.</p>
<p>I’m going to say, though, that I think you should stop talking about “fallback” jobs, and implying that only some jobs are “real” and some aren’t. Careers and lives go in a lot of directions, and everything is important one way or another. Maybe working at a filling station is at the bottom of most people’s lists, but on the other hand my H worked at a truck stop for years when he was in school and he learned an awful lot about life and about himself doing it.</p>
<p>I may get blasted by people who think only someone with the “drive to make it to the top” is going to “succeed” in the theater world, and I do understand it’s a very competitive profession. I don’t have a kid whose only goal is a Tony award and gobs of dough. She’d be honored to find a way to keep theater in her life and have some great moments, wherever she is. She also has the perspective of growing up in the heartland and knowing it’s a big country, with people doing wonderful things in the arts - and supporting themselves with it - everywhere, not just NYC and LA.</p>
<p>I know it can take a lot of guts and drive to fight your way in. I know it also takes luck, and connections and maybe even some fairy dust, to get the “big rewards.” But that’s not the only way people can feel successful or happy. And these things come and go, over time. </p>
<p>I may sound condescending, but please keep that passion and work ethic you have, but temper it with some flexibility and a more open mind about how life can turn out. You might miss some great opportunities otherwise.</p>
<p>After complaining about other people’s grammar, I need to correct my own mistake. I meant to say:</p>
<p>I’m glad you’re getting the real-life skills necessary to make and repair things. THIS IS valuable in itself and can lead to all sorts of things. …</p>