<p>Agree with EmmyBet. My D’s goal in life is not to be on Broadway, though she’d be happy if that ever happens, of course. She loves to perform, don’t get me wrong. But her other jobs in this field, the non-acting jobs, are ones she also enjoys, and are not truly considered “fallbacks” in her eyes. She is happy working in the world of theater and music in any capacity. She also creates her own performance opportunities.</p>
<p>Out of respect for people who do want “Broadway or bust,” I will say I do admire that kind of drive. I have known many very ambitious people in my life - I knew many, many aspiring doctors, lawyers and businesspeople in college, and it took a lot of hard work and sometimes ruthlessness to achieve those ambitions. Some of my classmates, 25 years later, really are “stars” in their field. I’m very happy for them.</p>
<p>But I think even in those professions, even at a high level of achievement, we’re not talking about being a Broadway star. There are too many variables and too much that the individual can’t control. That would be like someone who not only wants to be a doctor, but wants specifically to be chief surgeon at Mass General, or a lawyer whose goal is to be a Supreme Court Justice.</p>
<p>A few people actually manage these goals; others live bitter, disappointed lives. And still others find ways to use those talents, skills and professional credentials to do important work that’s available, needed, and notable in its own way. All of these scenarios can be applied to the theater profession, absolutely.</p>
<p>We were impressed by theater schools that describe this kind of hope for their own students, and say that’s what they prepare their students for: for whatever life in theater is right for them.</p>
<p>When I wrote that my D’s goal is not to be on Broadway, I should clarify. I meant that her goal is not that narrowly defined. She does have high goals and would love to perform at the highest levels. But she doesn’t define success as a singer/actor as being on Broadway only. I think as long as she is working in the field, that will be a success. But she does aim high and sets high expectations of things she wants to achieve. But these are not so narrowly defined as “Broadway”. Like you say, someone who is very into law can aim high and be very successful while not being on the Supreme Court. The chances of landing on Broadway are not that high but are possible. But the chances of being a successful singer/actor are attainable in a reasonable fashion. I think you can have a lot of drive and ambition, while at the same time not believing in “Broadway or bust.”</p>
<p>It reminds me of college admissions. My girls wanted to go to very selective colleges to be challenged and set high expectations, but neither felt “Ivy or bust” or “tippy top BFA or bust” notions. One can have drive and aim high, while not defining “high” as “one thing only.”</p>
<p>If you just want a fallback job, why even get a Masters on top of your BFA? Thats what community college is for. Its pretty cheap in most states and you can accomplish it in a much shorter period of time. You can learn to cut hair, be a legal assistant, drive a truck, be a forklift operator, a tax preparer, a computer techie, an aesthetician or any number of other practical skill sets you can use full or part-time to keep a roof over your head. Just stay away from nursing or becoming an EMT or a cop because those are full time and require PASSION for what youre doing if youre going to be worth a crap and remain employable for any length of time </p>
<p>I dunno Coming from a primarily working class and military background, I get a little offended every time this discussion comes up. Well Not really offended so much as more or less going into eye rolling mode at the sense of entitlement I feel from those who seem to eschew the intrinsic value of any kind of education and, instead, look at is as some kind of ticket a high paying job. I got news folks It aint! If youre not doing something about which youre passionate, chances are youre gonna suck at it or at best be a spear carrier for someone else who followed her bliss. Why not just pursue what you love and have faith in whatever it is you have faith in that following your bliss will lead to good places even if theyre not necessarily the places for which you set out?</p>
<p>“Why not just pursue what you love and have faith in whatever it is you have faith in that following your bliss will lead to good places even if theyre not necessarily the places for which you set out?”</p>
<p>^^Totally agreed (I wish I knew how to do the quote box!) but that doesn’t mean that you will suck and be miserable at whatever job you do end up with even if it’s not what you had in mind. Sometimes a job is just a job. You do it because you need the money.</p>
<p>Plenty of people look at their job and wonder how they got there. Some are miserable and unfulfilled. Some are perfectly satisfied. It’s up to you to choose which you want to be.</p>
<p>fish…my kid is with you! When she went to college for theater, we never ever discussed fallback jobs or second majors and so on. She is going for it in theater all the way. Yes, she has to earn money while on the audition trail but she does that all in theater/music. I don’t think she ever plans to get a job earning money outside this field. Why must a “side job” be unrelated to theater? Says who? If you have a varied skill set within performing arts, there are many ways to earn a buck. My D LIKES all her jobs. They are not something she endures in order to be an actor. She is very into the variety of performing arts work that she does.</p>
<p>soozievt, your D’s situation is ideal! :)</p>
<p>She’s not unique. Someone in the arts hopefully has a variety of skills. I don’t think you have to have a side job outside the field if you hone a variety of skills within it. My D has many friends who wait tables while auditioning and she does feel fortunate that she has ways to earn money in the arts while auditioning and that these things often pay well, and she enjoys these things as well.</p>
<p>I’ll also add as someone who has worked both in the arts and in other professions that many dedicated artists of all kinds don’t necessarily want to spend all of their time in that work. Some arts are lonely - writing, painting. Some arts are physically stressful - dance, music. Sometimes there are so many hoops to jump through, and so few guarantees of longterm stability, that it’s a relief to do something else in addition, or as an alternative, for a while. And trying to do creative work within the frustrations of administrative red tape, grant funding, front offices with a “bottom line,” etc., etc., is helped by the balance of work that’s completely different, whatever might appeal to you. Finally, “creative” people, as much as we love them, and are them, can be kind of high maintenance. Sometimes it’s healthiest to have a mixture; finding a balance doesn’t mean you haven’t succeeded or aren’t as dedicated.</p>
<p>People studying the more creative subjects, or any other “less useful” subjects - don’t ever let anyone say you’re “wasting your degree.” It’s yours to do what you want with, and you’re the person who has to live your life every day.</p>
<p>One issue that someone has to consider who is trying to audition for work, such as in NYC, is that their “other jobs” have to have some level of flexibility in order for the actor to be available to audition during the day. That is one reason some wait tables. For my kid, she has several part time jobs, many which are flexible (can accept certain amount of work at any given time) and some are late in the day. So, this is another consideration when it comes to jobs for an actor who also auditions.</p>
<p>Hi, My S is now in grad school at CMU for directing. However, He graduated from NYU as a director. Well, at 21 no one wants you to direct… so he waas lucky enough to have NYU friends who made their own theater company and produced his plays( He’s also a playwright) and had him direct. Now he stil had to pay the rent in his Washinton heights apt. Luckily he fell into para legal work. No he did not have a degree in it but because he went to NYU lots of firms loved him and supported his temp job. He has been offered the chance to go to law school and has turned it down .Theater is his passion and we will just have to see how his scenario plays out. It’s not easy!</p>
<p>This is probably just a matter of semantics, but I think there is a difference between a “fall back” job and a “survival” job. </p>
<p>Most young theatre artists have some sort of “survival” job… The job that earns you steady money to pay the rent, buy food, etc… while you are also pursuing opportunities in your chosen field. For some the “survival” job is in another area of the field… teaching theatre or dance to children, playing for auditions, musical directing, etc… sometimes they will be in another area… paralegal, proof reading, substitute teaching, catering, waiting tables, clerical work, babysitting, dog walking, hostessing, checking coats, bartending, etc… Most young theatre artists will need a “survival” job of some sort. I know very successful performers, directors, choreographers, etc… who also still need a “survival” job in between professional theatre jobs… Broadway shows close, and you have to pay the rent until the next show.</p>
<p>“Fallback” jobs to me describe the career that someone chooses to pursue when they decide that performing professionally is not what they want anymore. I think of it as a career switch. Sometimes this will be in another area of the field… casting director, publicist, theatre professor, musical director, etc… in this case it is often something that you have been involved with, that you now are making your career focus as opposed to it being a way to pay the bills while you pursue your primary interest. </p>
<p>Anyone going into an arts field will most likely be asked “what are you going to fallback on if the whole theatre thing doesn’t work out?”. Implied in this question is the idea that “the whole theatre thing will not work out, so what are you going to do when you have given up?”. I honestly can say that I don’t know people who still want to be working in the arts in some capacity who are not doing so. Most of my friends (in their mid-30s to early 40s) who still want to be performing professionally are. They are AEA/ SAG and supplement their income between professional jobs with “survival” jobs either in or out of their field. Many are married, some have families, all support themselves and are happy with the lives they are living. Would they rather be able to support themselves full-time at all times with performing? Sure, and some years they do. </p>
<p>My friends who no longer pursue performing full-time have CHOSEN a different career path. Some in the field as producers, directors, agents, publicists, casting directors, college theatre professors, etc… Some in completely different fields as doctors, lawyers, elementary school teachers, paralegals, counselors, social workers, etc… For some career choices they needed further schooling (ie. Doctor :)), but they all had some sort of undergraduate degree… many with BFA degrees in Acting or Musical Theatre, and all have been successful pursuing their new dream job when they discovered that it was no longer performing. </p>
<p>I have a BFA in Musical Theatre and an MFA in Directing, and I teach in a BA Musical Theatre program. I honestly think that there is no one BEST way to educate yourself for a career in the performing arts. The BEST way is going to be whatever way is best for you. Pursue the undergrad training that you feel best suits you. There are so many twists and turns in the road that it is impossible to know 100% at age 18 what you are going to want to be doing at age 30, 40, 50, etc… prepare for what you want to be doing when you are 22. School itself may open your eyes to other passions, and once you are out of school you will make even more discoveries about yourself and what you want in life. You may discover that your 17 year old self was right and perform professionally for your entire life. You may discover something else is a passion. With a college degree – BA, BFA, BS, BM – you will have the basic credential to pursue additional education if you choose a different path, and have a college degree that is needed for many entry level jobs (regardless of major).</p>
<p>Sorry for the long post. :)</p>
<p>PS. I am not sure if I made clear in my ramblings above that I don’t believe it is a “fallback” to choose a different career path than performing. I think “fallback” is a misnomer.</p>
<p>Hardly a rambling! Beautifully said! :)</p>
<p>Kate, I think you said it very well.</p>
<p>“Fallback,” “survival,” “career change,” whatever the words - they happen with any degree, in any profession. You’ve described a way of thinking about how to make choices in the short- and long-term in a very realistic and inspirational way. Thank you.</p>
<p>I wish people talking about English degrees, philosophy, etc., could see what you wrote. It’s not just true in the arts. If going directly into a long-term job were the only goal of college, all they’d teach would be business, education, nursing, engineering, etc. While those are lovely areas of interest, IF you are interested in them, they are not what many people want to study.</p>
<p>That’s an interesting point - imagining at 18 what you want to do at 22. When I was 18 I wanted to be a 22-year-old who had spent 4 years getting a great liberal arts education. That’s it. I figured people would be interested in me if I was smart and motivated and well-grounded, and that I’d go to grad school someday if it wasn’t enough (and I did, as it happens). I know some people thought I was being foolish, but I believed in it. It was hard getting my first job out of college, but that wasn’t because of my school or degree choice (unless I’d done business, education, nursing, engineering, etc., again). Those first few years I got a lot of experience, had little money, and learned a lot about where I saw myself at 25 or 30. Where to be at 40 or 50 had to come later.</p>
<p>It’s a journey that happens to just about everyone, in any field. Let’s get our artsy kids off the hook a bit on this one. It shouldn’t sound so awful that they aren’t on a “job candidate assembly line.” They’re just taking very understandable and respectable steps in life.</p>
<p>Excellent posts by Kate and EmmyBet!! I so much agree with you both. </p>
<p>I often see on the theater forums people talking about “needing” a second major with theater, for their “fallback.” College is not all about what you major in. A college degree is an entry level into many kinds of work. I agree with EmmyBet that you don’t hear this asked as much of those who are doing liberal arts majors, like you do of those with majors in the arts. </p>
<p>I think if someone is passionate and skilled in the arts, they can have some type of career in the arts, as KatMT mentions. Nobody HAS to do a completely different field if they don’t wish to. </p>
<p>I also agree with the notion of “survival” jobs for when an actor is not cast in a show. The survival jobs may or may not be in the field of performing arts. For my kid, her “survival” jobs are ones she LIKES and wants to do. They are not truly a “fallback”. She never discussed “fallbacks” when pursuing college. She did talk about ways she could earn money while auditioning and she kept gaining experience in these other related endeavors, that she also enjoys doing. She never discussed needing a double major. You can major in theater and get work like anyone else majoring in a liberal arts type subject. Getting hired is not ALL about your “major”. Many jobs want to see “degree”, or an education. I think people get very caught up on majors and double majors as if the only thing a graduate from college is equipped to do is a job in their major. Not so. Tons of people have careers that are not directly related to their college major. College is not about job training, but rather about becoming an educated person, who also pursues more in depth one area of interest while in college. It doesn’t mean that the person can only work in that specialty field. I don’t consider undergrad school to be job training, as much as it is about an education in itself. That will serve someone well in life no matter if they have a job in their major eventually or not. </p>
<p>But yes, actors, even those on Broadway, need additional “survival” jobs between gigs. So, having ways to earn money is a consideration but it doesn’t mean you need a second major or “fallback” in the plan. Many, like my own kid, don’t have a “fallback career” in mind whatsoever and their life plan is to be in the arts. </p>
<p>I also agree with the posts above that someone who is 17-22 can’t know or plan everything about their lives yet. Things change and evolve as a person grows and has new experiences.</p>
<p>If all else fails, be a company spokesperson. You can emote passion, excitement, sincerity. And know how to connect with a camera :)</p>
<p>“Survival jobs”…I like it. Waiting tables is still one of the better paying “survival jobs” and there are plenty out there for young, attractive young men and women with great personalities. My own daughter (now a junior) wait’s tables at our local Friendly’s and always makes between $18 - $23 per hour. This is probably because she can “turn it on” with the best of them.</p>
<p>She also is in SAG/AFTRA/AEA and receives residuals from past professional work. With all this, she helps pay the cost of her tuition and expenses at a very expensive conservatory. She also pays for all the trips in the city for auditions, dance classes, etc. She now knows what hard work is and is willing to pay the price for what she wants to accomplish. By getting her BFA degree, she hopes to spend less time in a restaurants and more time doing what she loves. I think it all goes back to how bad do you want it and what are you willing to do (hard work) to get it. There are so many talented people trying to work in the arts and so few opportunities.</p>
<p>Good luck to anyone who wants to jump into the fire.</p>
<p>It is hard to say where a degree will lead you in any kind of program. For many years, I wrote activity lessons for elementary school textbooks. I also worked with photography models. I did well in each using the skills I learned in theater school.</p>
<p>I’m resurrecting this thread because it really pertains to my d’s situation.</p>
<p>She loves to be on stage and whether college ends up being a BA or BFA or in MT or straight acting is unknown at this point. And there is no other field she is interested in doing. So no “fallback” in business or something like that for her. And, she is not interested in teaching. Just is not at all interested in it. Frankly I’d rather her go back to school - if necessary due to cost, even to come home and go to our UNM (University Near Mom, lol) school - to get another degree in whatever other different field, if she decides to switch out of performing, than to go into teaching if she doesn’t have a passion and love for teaching. It would be doing herself and the kids a huge favor for her NOT to teach if that isn’t what she burns to do.</p>
<p>So I’m not suggesting to her nor is she contemplating trying to train for a “fallback” career while getting her theater degree. I like the clarity of separating a survival job from a fallback job or career, and I like the honesty of knowing that people often do completely switch careers at some point in their life and you should expect to have to reschool or retrain to an extent, in that case. </p>
<p>In fact, my best friend’s husband got a BFA in theater management, had a successful career doing exactly that for 15 years, then decided he wanted to do something else, went back to school for his accounting degree, and is now employed as a CPA and is really enjoying his new steady and lucrative career. In this economy nobody is promised anything, but he’s riding it out fairly well (switched from the housing industry YIKES to the medical - so he might have to switch yet again haha but as long as people need to count money there will be work) and really likes it.</p>
<p>(now my daughter would rather do just about anything than something involving math but the point is, I don’t think you can get ready for two completely separate career fields with one degree - if you have a total career change, you should expect a certain amount of retraining, unless it’s into a field that doesn’t require specialized training.)</p>
<p>I have mentioned that d has a lot of costuming ability, and though this whole admissions into college thing would probably be a lot easier if that was ALL she wanted to do, she absolutely wants to perform, so she’s really not looking to actually major in tech/costuming. Because, the programs we have looked at so far, give a smattering of performance (much as the performance degrees, certainly the BFA’s anyway, give a smattering of tech - 9 hours maybe, some a few more), which I don’t think would be realistically be enough training to make her competitive in auditions after graduating. </p>
<p>I am pretty sure - and discussions with people in the field support this - that a survival job in costuming would be easier to dovetail with auditioning than some other non theater survival jobs might be. Instead of doing choreography or coaching voice or things like soozievt’s daughter (who sounds so amazingly talented) her thing would be costuming. And that could even feasibly turn into her actual choice of career one day so it’s kind of both a fallback and a survival job at the same time, but a fallback that would not necessarily require going back to school. Though an MFA in costume design would probably not hurt anything.</p>
<p>My question is how does she get enough costume training to get costuming jobs while not hurting the quality of her performance training while getting a performance based degree? It seems pretty obvious a BA would make it easier to do that than a BFA but there are a couple schools that she likes (and one is her safety) that she really prefers the BFA program. For example in her safety, the BFA’s (but not BA’s) spend their entire junior or senior year studying abroad. (very cool - one semester in London, another in Spain!) It’s one of the main reasons she likes that school. If she went there she WOULD do the BFA. So she’d have to figure out how to fit in more costuming somehow.</p>
<p>It will help her a lot that she will be going in with potentially 27 hours of core class credits already due to taking dc classes (and they all transfer to her safety as well as pretty much all of the state schools and most of the privates on her list, actually) so we already know she can probably fit in more costuming classes that way.</p>
<p>Is that enough? Would be be better to get a BFA and try to fanagle these dc classes and work in the costuming classes that way or would she be better off getting a BA with a really substantial minor (if there is such a thing, some people are dismissive of minors) or a double major? </p>
<p>As some of the BA’s we are looking at are non audition, that decision might end up being made for her if auditions don’t go brilliantly this fall…</p>
<p>but assuming she has a choice - any thoughts on this? On any aspect of it from applying to her program and degree path to beyond?</p>
<p>I mean, I can look at the programs and requirements and tease it all out and with deduction and reasoning, come up with a possible degree plan that would ostensibly accomplish such a thing, but I have noticed there’s a lot of factors that are based on acquired knowledge, and not logical deduction, in this particular field! (if that were not the case, I don’t think there’d be such a need for this board!) and I don’t have that knowledge.</p>
<p>I’m open to all advice.</p>