What would you do? I need some clarity.

Parent Cafe
61

<p>Conflicted. Sounds like you came up with a compromise on your original position that you could live with. Daughter should be happy for the compromise.</p>

<p>Thanks for reminding all of us to clearly state to our young dependent adults the financial rules we set.</p>

<p>The students are in a tough spot. How much of their own income is it okay for them to spend on stuff they would like before it becomes too much in the mind of a parent who pays for tuition, room and board. Lunch out everyday? New sneakers? What if they had been saving up for something they really wanted for a long time and had not spent on the other litttle things. What would be your breaking point? </p>

<p>My other thought is that life has a way of throwing curve balls at you and rules that have worked all of a sudden don’t work anymore and they need to be changed. Be open to compromise.</p>

<p>I have one young adult that became physically very sick and made some very bad financial choices during this time. I had to really loosen up to help her keep her life on track while she navigated through this. Looking back I am glad that I did.</p>

<p>also agree with cptofthe house quote “life is too short…”</p>

62

<p>If it’s about the money, it seems to me (for those who want to avoid anything like this) that it’s important what the “deal” is with respect to the money that is earned in the part-time job. In this case, we understand that the part-time job money was intended to provide spending money, and to pay for half of rent (as I understand it). Was there an understanding that if the earnings exceeded what was needed for rent and reasonable spending, the excess would go back to the parent to offset education costs? What if the D worked extra hours to save up some more money? I think this whole scenario–and the advice given–would be different if, for example, a D in college worked extra hours as a waitress to save up money to buy a $1000 acoustic guitar. Again, the 3-year-old threat was about getting a tattoo specifically.</p>

<p>One other point: I don’t think one is obligated to follow through on a theat if you decide you’d rather not. Even God reversed his promise to destroy the Israelites when Moses interceded with Him.</p>

63

<p>Sax, I agree with much of what you have said. I think in son’s case he has always wanted to live beyond what our family could afford. In the past we were always able to support the children’s needs and wants (within reason). We saw nothing wrong with son earning money to pay for trips, outings, excursions and the like. We paid for clothes for the most part, but if he wanted $300 sunglasses he had to buy them himself. Or if he wanted a tattoo- that was his choice and while I did not approve there was little I could do short of throwing him out of the house (H’s idea) but I didn’t see how this would possibly help or improve the choice that had already been made. This past year has not been particularly kind to our family financially and we explained to both children that we would all have to cut back and the children would have to contribute their “discretionary income” to items we had previously purchased for them. D was always an ant and S always a grasshopper, so it was not difficult for her to adjust. </p>

<p>Each week I sent S a check I also sent him an “encouragement” letter; I wanted him to try and build good habits for saving so I specifically instructed him to deposit X amount and the rest was for spending. When he had medical issues, of course we paid for those. What burns me is that he specifically disregarded reasonable requests to save for his books while purchasing other items which really weren’t necessary. It’s frustrating.</p>

64

<p>Sabary. I applaud you. I wouldn’t give him any more money either. He can get on Amazon or buy used books from friends/bookstore and bring the price down. He has 2 and a half months to work it out. Plenty of time.</p>

65

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<p>LOL, my child would score extra points if he/she came up with this argument and could cite chapter and verse!</p>

66

<p>I can’t help but wonder, just what would you get for a $1000 tattoo? Not knowing much about tattoos, it still seems like a ton of money for a tattoo.</p>

67

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It’s in Exodus. God is disgusted with the Israelites, and tells Moses He’s going to wipe them out and start over with Moses’ descendants. Moses argues that if God does this, He will look bad to all the other nations by wiping out His chosen people. God relents.</p>

68

<p>Conflictedmom, I can so relate and feel for you. We went through a similar situation where we eventually cut off financial support to D.</p>

<p>D didn’t try at school (Ds and Fs regularly appeared in her report card) and didn’t try at work (got terminated from several minimum wage jobs mostly for being late to work, one time for yelling back at a manager getting on her). D is very imature. We talked to her numerous times, sometimes calmly and sometimes not so calmly. We made it very clear to her what we expect and what we are willing to help with. She was spending money freely and getting into debt while we were paying for her rent, etc. It is so hard when you are working your butt off in such difficult economic times, clipping the coupons, looking for the sales while others just spend without thinking.</p>

<p>I also felt that we were being taken advantage of. D is on her own starting this year. She just recenlty told us that she has learned so much about life and there are many things to think about. Everyone has to learn some day.</p>

<p>Best of luck to you.</p>

69

<p>I have not finished reading the thread, but I am going into some level of debt and huge levels of sacrifice to pay for my kids tuition and have been doing so for 10 years. I am weary of the sacrifice and ready to be done, so I would find the slap in the face to be hard to take.</p>

<p>By the same token, one of my DDs saved her part time job income and paid for her own trip to Central America one break and I was somewhat supportive of the travel, though DH and I discussed whether that meant we were giving too much money.</p>

<p>Over the years we figured our student’s budget and predominantly did not ask any questions, but left them to their own budgeting priorities. One kid is very frugal, one kid spends a lot more on little things. The first kid traveled, the second graduated with $1000 in credit card bills and worked all summer to pay it off. We made a concerted effort NOT to judge their purchases and spending as long as they did not ask for more. DHs parents had always played money games with him and he really wanted to avoid that being part of our relationship.</p>

<p>That being said, if my kid was taking my money and flunking, involved in drugs &/or heavy partying or otherwise not living up to my basic life expectations I would struggle with that. I, too, asked my kids not to get a tattoo as long as I was paying their living expenses, not with a lot of strings and emotion and threats, just that as long as I was responsible for them not to do that or crazy piercings (ears fine, belly button, whatever, the rest, no) until they were fully independent. I figured that would get them through the peer pressure years unscathed by permanent or semi-permanent physical changes and allow them to make up their own minds later.</p>

<p>If I own the car and I am on the lease and I am taking student loans on their behalf, I will be sued if they are in an auto accident, I will lose good credit if they do not pay rent on time, etc. I have a right to have some expectations.</p>

<p>We never asked our kids to tell us their grades, only to maintain any merit awards and if they did not (minimum GPA) they would be taking the loan to make it up, not a threat, just a fact.</p>

<p>In the same way, this mom made clear an expectation and her DD did not just sneak a little hidden flower on her hip, she went big time with a $1000 slap in the face that is probably very viewable by all. I think I would let the DD just take loans to finish school. She can do it, she can be entirely independent that way. </p>

<p>I would also try to do this with no anger, just matter of factly, “obviously you want to be an adult and independent, so lets just do that, just take your stafford loans and you can take care of your tuition and I will not be nosy into your life any longer.”</p>

<p>Mom can stash the money she would have paid and decide later if/when there would be a time she might want to pay off some/all the loans.</p>

70

<p>bookworm - yes, an unexpected (on her part) amount of pressure (some self inflicted, but eh, she’s 21) and stress with her very taxing program this year (again, some self inflicted, but eh, she’s 21).</p>

<p>Last night I told her that I really couldn’t wait until she she could see the great things she brings to the proverbial table, and that I wasn’t the only one who sees it. </p>

<p>21 stinks. I remember it as being caught in some awful type of quicksand. Old enough to be on my own and supporting myself but too young emotionally to know what to do with it.</p>

<p>For her sake, I hope some day she becomes a parent and sees through a different set of eyes. Eyes that care and ache for someone other than themselves.</p>

<p>Yikes, I’m getting very philosophical.</p>

71

<p>Philosophical is good. Better than being eaten up with anger. (((HUGS)))</p>

72

<p>Youdon’tsay wrote: Philosophical is good. Better than being eaten up with anger.</p>

<p>Agreed.</p>

73

<p>In the big picture, the tattoo doesn’t matter much. I don’t like’'em, and still have a visceral reaction to them that would not help the “tattooee” if I were evaluating them in some way. But you can’t control it and there is a lot more social pressure/acceptance of it…regrettable as that may be. </p>

<p>I do think there is a possibility of some type of OCD/addiction (not the best terminology, but can’t think of another) relating to tattoos. Josh Hamilton the baseball player who had some very tough self inflicted problems…and continues to, apparently…also has a bunch of tattoos and said in an interview that he got some type of cathartic release when he was being tattooed. His story is worth following for some insight…its easy to find and has been on espn programs and magazines. </p>

<p>Don’t damage your relationship over this specific transgression. If you feel you have some limits financially that need to be honored, let her know what they are in some type of compassionate terms, and maybe that will forestall or eliminate the next financial excess.</p>

74

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<p>The occasions when my D has been the angriest with me have been the (fortunately few) times that she made a really stupid decision, got called on it and knew somewhere deep down that I was right and she was wrong. It is so much easier to become angry and think that parents don’t have a clue than to admit you were an idiot. I hope that upon reflection your D reaches a point that she can “hear” you.</p>

<p>My sympathies, Conflicted.</p>

75

<p>According to post 67, Moses negotiated with God to not carry out a threat. I don’t think this relates well to the Op at hand, other than to prove the wildly spending Daughter is not as skilled of a negotiator as Moses was.</p>

<p>As some have touched on, I also believe as the provider of money you are permitted a large say where that money goes. Banks, credit unions, credit cards, and even the utilities typically ask about income and expenses in their determinations whether to provide their money/service to a customer. A parent is not a business, but they are a provider of dough, and more importantly, supposed to be teaching their offspring.</p>

76

<p>My point about the Moses story is that the parent has the right to decide whether to carry out the threat or not, and can weigh the pros and cons of doing so. The parent shouldn’t feel bound to carry out the threat (or to carry it out in full) if she decides that it’s better not to do so.</p>

77

<p>And my point about the Moses story is that if one of my kids actually cited chapter and verse of the Bible, I’d think all those years of Sunday School were not in vain!</p>

78

<p>Notice that God used to argue with his children, and could even be convinced to change his mind. Now he just remains silent. What does he know about raising kids that we don’t? :D</p>

79

<p>I have to say that your story (conflictedmom) really resonates. I find it very difficult to let go of anger when my 20-year-old spends ‘his’ money on things I find extravagant or that I disapprove of. There is a line past which I would reduce the amount that we provide him monthly. (He lives off campus, so we pay monthly for rent, food, phone, internet + travel home.) But I’m not sure where that line is… he is by nature more of a spendthrift, and no matter how little or how much he gets from us, I think he will always be that way. Not all my kids are like this, and I have no idea how to influence this sort of thing. I think it’s really mostly a matter of temperament, and not very much about it is really open to modification. For example, this kid racked up bank charges of about $200 last summer for repeatedly withdrawing more cash from his checking acct than he had avail…WHILE HE HAD MONEY IN THE LINKED SAVINGS ACCT ALL ALONG – was just too lazy and stupid to keep track and move the money around. And sometimes his actions are more about the taking-advantage than the obliviousness.</p>

<p>I should just go beat my head against a wall quietly, I guess. I’m pretty sure I pulled some real boners at that age too.</p>

80

<p>One of mine is the ant, frugal as can be and does quite well with money, the other is the grasshopper and finished her UG with $1000 CC debt as well as parking tickets and other signs of financial immaturity, such as owning more clothes and little doodads than any normal father could imagine!</p>

<p>She lived on her own for grad school and got much more frugal on her own money, though there being loans available made it a bit easier. Now as she moves on to even higher learning I see her working hard to learn from her past spending habits. She just always seems to want the nice life today and fritters away money which her sister squirrels away and uses for travel or other significant memorable experiences or purchases.</p>

<p>Spending DD is much better, but it is not natural or easy for her, so have hope, but don’t be unrealistic in your expectations.</p>