<p>Anyone have an Emily Post book hanging around? Let’s check out this “and guest” business!</p>
<p>Lje62, we did have wedding crashers and they were (uninvited) children!! We had a “no kids” policy at our wedding which really ticked off several friends and family. Too bad. I went to too many weddings with terrific bands where the under 10 set were doing cartwheels across the dance floor while their parents oooh’d and ahh’ed over how darling they were. NOT. My two cousins brought theirs anyway but kept them under wraps pretty much.</p>
<p>dke, trust me that Miss Manners does not allow the use of “and guest.” She also abhors response cards – the proper thing to do is to write a response letter. (I’ll haul out the Miss Manners books if you’d like, but I have to unfreeze the frozen pipes in the kitchen first.)</p>
<p>3mb103, just because people write “and guest” on their wedding invitations doesn’t mean it’s the proper thing to do. See “response cards,” which most people seem to use, above. Great for the wedding industry, to encourage the expense of hosting strangers and the use of more printed material, however! The wedding industry has also convinced brides (and others) that they must buy a special dress in which to get married, a dress that they can never wear to any other occasion, and grooms that they must rent clothes they would never be caught in at any other time. And so on.</p>
<p>lje62 ~ yep, i had one extra guest. I sent an invitation to a second cousin (or some such relation) AND GUEST. He sent back the response card as just 1 would attend. Ok, so that’s what I planned for with the seating arrangements. Don’t cha know, in the receiving line, he comes along and introduces me to his guest. I am now stressing because I remembered he was at a table that was already full. So my dad went into overdrive, contacted the restaurant and made sure there was room somewhere. I don’t even remember how it was resolved (nor did I care at that point). And those of us involved all remember it to this day, over 28 years later. Of course, this wasn’t one of our most favorite people in the world anyway, but at that point in time was necessary to invite.</p>
<p>Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve ever seen him again since!</p>
<p>My boss had a couple arrive at her daughter’s wedding reception that had sent back the response card (that miss manners hates) saying they would not attend. Luckily there were a couple of tables they could be seated at and she chose the one most appropriate, though not optimal.</p>
<p>Short of going back to the days where people had to respond to an invitation by a written note, (good luck with that, it’s hard to get them to send back the preprinted, stamped response card) I guess response cards are pretty standard these days. I’ve been married 30 years. We used response cards too. Also used “and guest”. So it’s not new. My only question was: does “and guest” mean anybody? Or a date?</p>
<p>3bm103, responding with written notes is exactly what most of the people invited to my first wedding did, even though the invitation was not a formal one. I wrote each person I was inviting a letter; most people responded in kind.</p>
<p>For the second wedding just a couple of years ago, many of my friends (all in the around-50 age group) responded by email! They knew that was fine with me, as we’d talked about it at some social function or another. I didn’t care how they responded, just so long as they did!</p>
<p>I know response cards were used 30 years ago, and I know “and guest” was also used 30 years ago. So were cash bars. Doesn’t make any of them proper etiquette, however. (Lest anyone think I’m sneering at anyone who isn’t “proper,” please know I’m not. I may not DO the proper thing, but I usually know what the proper thing to do IS, whether I do it or not!!)</p>
<p>~~~~~~~~~</p>
<p>From Miss Manners “Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior”…</p>
<p>Dear Miss Manners:
I got a wedding invitation with an answer card enclosed for me to fill in my name under “Will attend” or “Will not attend.” Does this take the place of a handwritten reply?</p>
<p>Gentle Reader:
Never. It is meant to, however. Miss Manners finds such cards an abomination and invites you to help foul up the systems of people who try it. Use your own letter paper to write a conventional formal reply. This will be too big for the filing box in which the hosts are keeping track of who is coming and who isn’t, and thus drive them crazy. Maybe then they will learn to behave better by the second wedding.</p>
<p>Dear Miss Manners:
I heard someplace that I shouldn’t put “and Family” or “and Guest” on my wedding invitation envelopes. Well, how else do I let them know everybody is invited? Also, why do I have to use two envelopes? It seems like a waste to me.</p>
<p>Gentle Reader:
Using “and Family” on your invitation is its own punishment. You cannot then complain if your sister-in-law’s dog disturbed the ceremony, and you didn’t know where to seat your bridegroom’s best friend’s stepgrandfather’s new friend. The word “family” can be very broadly construed when free champagne is involved, and those who use “and Guest” on their invitations are courting disaster. </p>
<p>If you care enough to invite people to your wedding, you will find out each one’s name and use it. You need not send an invitation to every man, woman, and child. You may send married (or otherwise cohabiting) couples a single invitation, and you may even include, beneath those of their parents, the names of daughters living at home, as in:</p>
<p>[example not typed]</p>
<p>Their brothers, “The Messrs. Awful,” should be sent a separate invitation, even if they live at the same address. It is best not to include more than two adults in one invitation. </p>
<p>It is a treat for children under about age thirteen – if you really want to invite them – to receive a separate invitation addressed “The Misses and Messrs. Awful.” </p>
<p>[explanation about double envelopes not typed]</p>
<p>~~~~</p>
<p>There are other examples in this and others of her books. I cannot tell you the copyright on this one, as it’s tattered and missing not only the covers, but part of the table of contents, too. I find her writing very entertaining (as well as informative, as my mother imparted no etiquette instruction to her children whatsoever).</p>
<p>I received an invite with “and guest” years ago and my date was so insulted but thought it was hilarious at the same time. He said, “My name isn’t Mr. Guest!” and “why would I want to attend a stranger’s wedding?” but ended up going with me and having fun, anyway. Response cards? . My mother almost had a heart attack when I told her that H’s family wouldn’t respond if we didn’t use response cards so she reluctantly went along with it but wasn’t happy about it. Her friends threw out the cards and wrote handwritten RSVP’s anyway!</p>
<p>We are attending a family wedding and will be out of town guests. We are very close with the family hosting the rehearsal dinner. BUT none of us is IN the wedding party or otherwise involved in the wedding. We feel we do not BELONG at the rehearsal dinner. The rehearsal dinner doesn’t need to be a “mini” wedding reception, and that is what some of these are turning into.</p>
<p>The trend I’m seeing the most is the “Save the Date” cards and websites for the bride/groom. Back in the day…you just waited for your invitation to arrive. Now you get a “Save the Date” card or magnet or something about six or more months in advance. I find this helpful, but it IS a change.</p>
<p>Also, more weddings of our friends’ kids seem to be the traditional type of wedding, while many folks my age either had smaller weddings, got married out in a field, or both…not as formal (not saying everyone did that…but it certainly was more common then than now).</p>
<p>I hope I get to help plan a wedding someday!!!</p>
<p>I also told Mon that we’d need to set up a table for gifts. “WHAT?? Why would anyone bring the gift to the wedding? Are you sure we need to do THAT?” but I assured her that H’s side wouldn’t be mailing things ahead of time.Different strokes…</p>
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<p>dke, we had the SAME policy. Despite that, we were TOLD that very young family member would be coming because “she always comes to weddings”. We said politely “she’s not invited”. She came. We had a very small wedding and paid for ALL of it ourselves. </p>
<p>Now, many years later, we can chuckle about this but it was NOT funny at the time.</p>
<p>owlice: I didn’t mean to imply that I didn’t believe you or agree. I was just saying that sometimes it’s better to go along with what’s common and accepted. Kind of like dke is saying.</p>
<p>IMO one’s view of what’s a great wedding is subjective. I don’t think there’s one right way. Much of it depends on local traditions and what the bride/groom and their parents can afford. I wouldn’t invite guests who the bride and groom didn’t know, but some do. We’ve been invited to weddings where H is a business associate of the bride or groom’s father. We’ve gone and sat with folks my H knew and had a great time.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t have a pot luck, but my SIL, who lives in a small steel town in PA, had one. People from her church brought the food and some women from the church cooked a ham and a turkey. It was a lovely wedding and meant a great deal to my SIL that the folks from her church participated. Everyone had fun. She didn’t have money for a catered wedding and my inlaws didn’t either; the potluck made the reception possible.</p>
<p>My D is getting married in June, and I’ve been interested in all of the posts. It’s a destination wedding (an island off the east coast of the US where we have a summer place). Almost all of the guests (right now–100) will be within driving distance. The only exceptions are H’s siblings and my cousins/aunts who are all from the midwest. The groom’s mom and stepdad are hosting the rehearsal dinner and they’ll invite out of town guests who are there on Friday.</p>
<p>One observation–it is easy to get carried away and you sometimes have to stop yourself. There are times when we just need a reality check and the kids are good about grounding us. We’re trying to have a great party at a great spot and hope everyone enjoys the day.</p>
<p>" the potluck made the reception possible."</p>
<p>It’s great that your SIL and her friends enjoyed her wedding potluck.</p>
<p>I’m just commenting to say that one can have a very inexpensive reception without tons of food. Wedding cake and punch would be an example. I went to a wedding last year that had that. It was the middle age bride’s first marriage, too. The reception was also held at her church.</p>
<p>It was lots of fun. One doesn’t need to spend a lot of money and have lots of alcohol and food to have a nice wedding and reception. What really matters is the spirit of the event.</p>
<p>We were happy to have kids at our wedding, because the only families with small kids who were coming were in H’s extended family, and we knew they were pretty well-behaved.</p>
<p>We did have some “and guest” problems, though. We had a strict cap on attendance from our reception site, and we had invited attendance cap + 15%. A few of our friends (who, to be fair, probably hadn’t been to that many weddings before) RSVPed for two from their singly addressed invitations. They were very reasonable when we contacted them to explain that we probably couldn’t have extra guests, but if we knew we had extra spots after getting more RSVPs back, we’d be happy to let them know.</p>
<p>One friend who RSVPed back “plus guest” was planning to bring his new, younger girlfriend. The former girlfriend, who was not too pleased about this development, was also coming to the wedding. (Never let your friends date each other. It’s a bad idea.) We already had to seat them at tables across the room from each other, and I was in a fine froth that he’d bring New GF anyway and cause a commotion. Luckily he didn’t, but, man, what was he thinking?</p>
<p>“The MollieB wedding thread was my all-time favorite thread on CC.”</p>
<p>zoosermom or Mollie, can you post a link? Thanks!</p>
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<p>I just have to ask…how do you drive to an island?? (sorry…read that and had to ask).</p>
<p>To answer the OP’s original question, I think just about anything goes with weddings today. You can have the kind of wedding you want, the kind of reception you want (potluck or not!), who pays for what is negotiable, etc.</p>
<p>Also, someone mentioned at the beginning of the thread that someone didn’t have the “16K dream wedding”. My D was married last August and being “traditional” parents of the bride, paid for nearly everything. It WAS NOT a lavish affair and it cost just at the national average - @ $25,000. This included invitations and all that goes along with those, thank you notes, stamps, wedding programs, female bridal party dresses and all that goes along with those, all the flowers (they were gorgeous and different - deep, rich colors and he used a lot of fruit in the arrangements), church fees, dinner for @ 185 at a local country club, photographer and photos/albums, the cake, hair and makeup, favors for reception guests, flights for our younger D to attend, hotel room for us, gifts for all the showers I attended, and their wedding gift. Every time we got a bill I said, “This isn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be” - it just adds up. AND we live in the Midwest where things are suppose to be cheaper!</p>
<p>D and her H were married in their college town, which is @ 75 miles from our home and 40 miles from his parents’ home. D bought a $700 wedding dress at our local bridal shop. We purchased the bridesmaids dresses (they were all college students or recently graduated) at the same shop. They were gorgeous and something they could potentially wear later for $100 each. The favors were candies from our local chocolate shop - a way to bring a little bit of home to the reception.</p>
<p>Groom was a music major and people left the ceremony blown away by the awe-inspiring
atmosphere the music helped create in the church that day. The organist was a friend and did an amazing job. Instead of a soloist, they had a small choir composed of friends - beautiful! The wedding was in an old church and had a very formal, reverent feel to it. The reception was much lighter, where a small jazz band was the entertainment. Very different and everyone loved it. I will forever treasure the sight of my 90 year old mother bebopping to the music! They decided on a buffet set at different satellite tables that encouraged people to get up, mill around, and talk. The bride and groom chose not to have a dance - they ate quickly, and then spent the rest of the evening visiting with their guests at the reception. </p>
<p>On the question of children at the wedding/reception - when the invitations were addressed, we just addressed them to the adults. We received two RSVP cards where the people had “added” their child into the “number attending”. D just called them and explained that they weren’t going to have children at the ceremony/reception.</p>
<p>Regarding people asking to bring other “guests” who were not invited. We had two people do this (one a friend and one family) and we said yes (regrettably!). BOTH of these parties didn’t show in total for the wedding or the reception - so we paid for dinner for them and the extra guests they asked to bring (7 total people), even though they didn’t come. So yes, you will have “no shows” for people who have RSVPed yes.</p>
<p>H and I tried to stay out of the decision making process as much as possible so they could make the day their own. At the end of a lovely day, our D and her new H came up to thank us for giving them such a wonderful wedding. We asked them if it was what they had envisioned and they said, “YES, exactly!” That is all that mattered.</p>
<p>^^ I think that it is such nerve to ask to bring a guest, unless the person who was invited is in a very serious relationship (ie: now engaged). Not to show up without calling is even more rude! Usually if guests call 48 hours in advance, or at least 24 hours in advance one might not have to pay for guests who are not attending! Emergencies and illnesses do happen, but I would try to call 24-48 hours before if I started to become ill. Sometimes one doesn’t have 24 hours notice in the case of an emergency, but that is so rare.</p>
<p>Oh, I love happy endings, MidWestParent. (I guess it’s really just the beginning, though, isn’t it? :))</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing the details. You must have some wonderful memories. It is amazing that an “average” wedding costs $25,000! I hope to have time between college graduations and weddings! (But you never know . . .)</p>
<p>A couple of years ago my BIL was engaged to be married for the second time. A surprise shower had been planned but my BIL showed up without his fiancee! She was mad at him about a project he hadn’t finished, and refused to come even after she was told about the surprise shower. But BIL did bring the wedding invitations, something quickly printed from their computer. The reception was to be at their home for family and a few friends. At the bottom of the invitation was a request to bring a side dish to share.</p>
<p>The best part was that a couple of weeks later we were asked to make double the planned amount of our side dish and divide it into two containers, because they were having a second reception later in the day for more friends and we weren’t invited to the second one!. I made my double portion to keep the family peace, but I was doubly appalled that we never received a thank you note for our gift or the food.</p>