<p>Perfect post whartongrad08. There is the biggest flaw in your reasoning so far POIH. I think we’re done here.</p>
<p>SlitheyTove…thank you for the entertainment! One contradiction after another!</p>
<p>POIH…one of your main concerns with the original event in the first post is that parents of children at the graduation ceremony might have to answer their child’s questions about this val’s religious customs. </p>
<p>It makes me wonder how you survived the 18 years of your D growing up. For example, was she allowed to visit a friend’s home that may be like my home that has a mezuzah on the door? Hanukah decorations up in December? If so (you did say you don’t mind sharing a meal with those of other religions), were you irritated by your D’s questions about that weird thing by the door or the menorah on the table? Or did you do as most parents would do and make it a teachable moment to EDUCATE your D that there were those who followed a religion called Judaism and these were their customs, even though your family doesn’t agree or believe the same?</p>
<p>Man it feels good to put someone in their place with those “for the win” kind of posts.</p>
<p>Same here. I would have join the debate team (everybody told me I should) and I would have liked to but it conflicted with sports and other previous obligations.</p>
<p>I really want to get off this thread but
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<p>There are many flaws in the reasoning here:
- You are on a volunteer web site which is meant for discussions.
- You are in no obligation to open a thread or post by me or another poster.</p>
<p>During the school graduation ceremony:
- Each child has same right to be part of it. All parent and their family have the right to enjoy the cermony.
- No one has to listen to or go through the superstitions of others in order to be answerable to their children</p>
<p>I’ll sign off. It was a nice discussion though.</p>
<p>1) It is not our logic, but yours that says that you shouldn’t be posting what you are posting on here.
2) When something so prejudiced is said, especially about my own people, I feel like I have a duty to stop you.
3) Did anyone at the graduation complain that they had to hear a prerecorded speech rather than a live one? I don’t think that any of them had a problem. They were focusing on their child and their accomplishments, not how the speech was given.
4) Children don’t ask about some religious belief they have never heard before, so if they did not experience this, how could they become more educated on the Jewish religion?
There answered your 4 flaws about our logic, your turn.</p>
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<p>Probably because you were just served up a big old slice of your own logic which led to the conclusion that you sir are also uneducated. mind blowing…i know right? </p>
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<p>Maybe the example is a little flawed but the reasoning is sound. An atheist, like yourself, can do something (maybe without even thinking about it) that forces people to asks questions and therefore is a burden to society as his own supersititions are driving these questions and by your own logic is uneducated. </p>
<p>Like I said man…it’s game. set. and match and you just lost…the crowd is cheering!!! people in the stands are crying!!! The nation of CC rejoices in a sweet victory!!! </p>
<p>Good luck with your future endeavors and I hope that one day you are able to shed your own “supersititions” and become part of the educated crowd.</p>
<p>Yea… everyone on here is acting pretty immature. Though POIH could have used better words, he/she DOES have a point.</p>
<p>please woeishi, explain his point. Explain how it is alright to mock this valedictorian girl, who is the brightest in her class and happens to follow her jewish beliefs to be uneducated. Explain to me how someone can look beyond her intelligence and only at her religion and call her uneducated. This is the same thing as looking beyond race. Though someone might feel uncomfortable because there was a different race in the room, doesn’t mean that person of a different race wasn’t educated. Though the race is more genetic, I feel that my Judaism is an obligation. I don’t feel like I could just convert to something else that I wanted (not that I feel trapped). It is something that I was born with, something that I will carry for the rest of my life, just like someone’s race.</p>
<p>woeishe - I agree with POIH’s notion that people’s beliefs should not negatively impact others. That is just common sense. In the case presented the only implication of the valedictorian’s action is that maybe a few kids in the crowd asked their parents some questions about why she could not give the speech. Is that in and of itself a negative consequence? Does that make her uneducated? </p>
<p>So let me ask you something…if your family celebrates kwanzaa and you decorate the outside of your house with kente and other pieces of art which then leads the neighborhood kids to ask their parents about it does that make you a burden on society and uneducated? By POIH’s construct yes…pretty much everyone else on here disagrees.</p>
<p>^^ It’s about where do we draw the line at accommodating people’s traditions. For example, Sharia Law. Do you really want to accommodate that?</p>
<p>There is a difference there because sharia law forces other to partake in a religious act, not just the individual. This girl wasn’t making everybody not use their cell phones, only she herself was not using the electronics.</p>
<p>One thing that confuses me about this story–don’t the soundboard and speakers used to the deliver the speech require electricity as well? Is it okay because she’s not using them directly (but her parents can’t take pictures of her, even though they’d be the ones using the camera, so…)?</p>
<p>Just curious. :)</p>
<p>^That was my first thought as well.</p>
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<p>I’ll answer that. You make reasonable accomodations out of respect because it is the Jewish religion. You don’t make unreasonable accomodations.</p>
<p>You also don’t make no accomodations just because you think the whole thing amounts to doggy poop.</p>
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<p>Yes, it’s the official interpretation. Mormon reasoning on the subject has been pretty inconsistent on the subject though, and I think in the past caffeine use was more frowned upon (which is why caffeine free coffee substitutes were allowed). But coke is most certainly legal now.</p>
<p>The part of their scriptures it’s based on refers to “hot drinks.”</p>
<p>Well, a few comments:</p>
<p>a) Atheism is not intellectually equivalent to professing a particular religion. If you want to believe something affirmative (such and such a religion is true) the burden of evidence is on you. </p>
<p>b) This poor valedictorian is too easy to defend. I think POIH would have better luck picking on something like “The Catholic Church uses the term “Transubstantiation” to describe the change of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ.”</p>
<p>c) I think that society imposes very severe limits on normal religious practice, for example prohibiting polygamy even for moslems.</p>
<p>Very revealing thread. The OP’s original and subsequent posts are proof that he really has no understandimg of world religions, their customs and their historical [ and in many cases factual] basis for many of their traditions and customs, their historical importance in world history, and their subsequent importance to many people. He also has no comprehension of 1] how poor his interpersonal social skills are,[ quite common in a certain % of geeky male engineers in Silicon Valley] 2] how offensive and belligerently his posts are written, or 3]an understanding of how they are perceived by others[ another sign of the cluelessness of some otherwise intelligent people], and 4] how generally lacking in insight and empathy he is of other people . He should seriously consider moving back to his native country, where he would be less isolated and could receive sorely needed one-on-one social instruction/ help/ guidance of how to get carry on conversations and get along with others, online or off, in his own native language …</p>
<p>Great so we are now all on the same page. Anyone who holds a belief that is not based in empirical evidence and in any way triggers people to ask for explanations, etc. is uneducated -</p>
<p>Right…that’s why I mentioned earlier that POIH’s idolatry of prep school and college rankings is his “religion” and…therefore…guess that makes him uneducated.</p>