What's wrong with people?

Parent Cafe
41

It seems unlikely her reaction had much to do with the game. Something was bothering her, she separated herself by standing off by the trash can, she didn’t want to talk, she told you she didn’t want to talk, and you approached her and touched her. Her reaction may have shocked you, but it feels more self-protective than hostile. She was trying to hide and you pursued her.

Maybe this is how you would like to be treated if your were upset, but try valuing diversity enough to appreciate that some people need to be left alone. If you had needed to tell her that the building was on fire and she needed to evacuate, then that would have been a good reason to approach and touch her.

I know you meant it kindly, but she is probably asking her friends what’s wrong with people who can’t leave people alone who have clearly indicated a desire to be left alone.

42

Maybe you were the 5th person to want to talk about the game, after she’s said she doesn’t want to discuss it. Maybe her thought process was, “What is WRONG with people? What about “I don’t want to talk about it” don’t they understand??? And what about it is an invitation to touch me? What is wrong with her?”

It goes both ways. And yes, I believe you were rude for touching her.

43

It is a fairly common gesture in this country to hug someone even when they don’t know each other well, which is not usually done in other cultures. People in this country also tend to touch someone to be social or show support. Just because you are not accustom to it doesn’t make it rude.

When I worked in another country, people at work regularly kissed each other in the beginning of every meeting, as much as I disliked people touching me I accepted it (I tried to limit it to one kiss a day with each person, no kiss after we already kissed at another meeting). I didn’t think kissing on the cheek was rude or inappropriate touching when I was in that country, but back here in the US I wouldn’t kiss my colleagues.

Not sure why people are so focused on the fact that OP touched that person.

44

In the neck of the woods I went to school in, the saying would be “well, she’s not supposed to marry me!” as in, she could at least have been civil about it…

That said, while that woman clearly overreacted in the situation, I do agree with the PP who point out how you contributed to escalating the situation. I genuinely mean to be helpful - it might make the encounter feel less weird and disturbing, and inform you how best to act in the future.

You knew this woman was taking this sports team way too seriously, having been weirdly competitive about your children’s places on the team before. You had a very superficial acquaintance apart from that, not even knowing her first name. She presumably removed herself from the group because she was overly upset about this completely predictable defeat, and probably knew that she was, seeing as none of the other parents appear to be bothered enough to get worked up about it. You had to invade her space in order to reach the trash can, perfectly legitimate need, and made a meaningless comment to acknowledge her presence in that space, again perfectly civil behaviour.

She asked you, in just about acceptable but really somewhat rude terms to leave her alone.

And THEN you moved in and touched her.

Doesn’t matter you may have touched her before when you needed or wanted her attention. Doesn’t matter whether you meant for it to be compassionate. Your degree of acquaintance nowhere near warranted that touch, and she freaked out at you.

I’m sure you genuinely think you meant to be kind, but wasn’t there a teeny tiny bit of “I won’t be dismissed like this” in your reaction? It’s understandable, she was somewhat rude and unreasonable to you, but you tried to end the encounter on your terms and it didn’t go well.

You said sorry. That was all you had to do. If she never mentions the incident again, she’s probably embarrassed about it, as she should be, so I wouldn’t expect her to apologise back.

I’d be perfectly polite and pleasant in the future, if only for your daughters sake, and otherwise keep my distance, and let it go.

45

Following up on oldfort’s post, I absolutely believe “when in Rome…” especially having lived in different cultures in different parts of the world. I was brought up in the American south to hug and kiss most adults as a greeting. That was just good manners. Even so, moving back to the south in my 50s, I was quite startled when a teller at the bank where I had just opened an account came out from behind the counter to hug me and welcome me to the community.

We don’t know the culture where LeastComplicated lives. And regardless of culture, I’ve begun to do my very best to be careful about touching others. Not everyone was raised how I was. And many people, maybe especially women, find this disrespectful. And I appreciate the legitimacy of their feelings here. I don’t want to go on a tangent, but the idea women’s bodies don’t just belong to the public for touching is an idea which has really resonated with me and I am doing my best to adjust my own behaviors accordingly.

eta:

LeastComplicated: I will share an embarrassing story in case it helps you out. A while back I was at a community gathering and didn’t recognize an attorney who had done some work for me. The friend I was with reminded me, “this is Charlie Smith, your attorney” and, in over compensation, I said, “of course” and gave him a big hug. Then he introduced me to his wife and grown daughters, who were just behind him, looking a bit shocked and wide eyed. I just shook their hands, and hope they just thought I was a well meaning crazy woman.

46

What’s done is done. I think the OP needs to move on. I understand she was taken a back by the reaction…but it’s just not worth fixating on. If this were her BFF I might think different,y… but it’s not.

47

Not all of the USA is a touchy, huggy culture.

“Not sure why people are so focused on the fact that OP touched that person.”
Because it is quite pertinent to the discussion.

48

No, I don’t know why it is pertinent to the discussion. To me it was a small part of this episode, but some people are assuming it was the touching that set the woman off. I think that’s a big assumption.

49

Ok, not the all of the USA, but mostly with non-Asians.

50

Well, considering she blew up after being touched, I’d say that’s probably what set it off.

I’d be weirded out if a teller came and hugged me. Like… really weirded out.

51

Non-verbal signals. Touching could be a big factor that triggered her reaction. As, for example, Romani mentioned, she personally is OK with touching but really hates it when she is under the weather or stressed. A hand placed on the shoulder in response to “I don’t want to talk about it” is quite different from a tap on the same shoulder from a person sitting behind in the bleachers watching the game.

52

OP I know how small those bleachers can be for girls sports when only the parents are there. I don’t think you did anything out of the ordinary or wrong and it does sound like she was having a bad day and took it out on you. That being said, please let her see you cheering for her daughter the next time you have the chance to do so. I

53

“She presumably removed herself from the group”

No. She was standing next to the exit door of the gym and everyone who left the gym had to pass by her. The garbage can was next to the door also as that’s usually where it’s placed IME, so that people exiting can throw away their trash. I was doing both - exiting the facility and throwing away trash.

I do not understand why so many people have jumped to the conclusion that she had clearly separated herself from the crowd/other parents so it was obvious she wanted to be left alone. She had done no such thing. On, the contrary, she chose to stand in the most high traffic area of the facility.

I didn’t approach her. I approached the trash can and the exit door. To throw away my trash and to exit the gym. She was already standing right there about a foot to the left of the door. So I spoke to her. It would have been rude not to. If she didn’t want anyone to speak to her, she put herself in the wrong place.

And to be clear - our whole interaction lasted probably 3 seconds at the most. Think about it: Me: “Rough game”, Her: “I don’t wan’t to talk about it”, Me: touch - which would have been the totality of the exchange if she hadn’t responded to me with that outburst. And again, I now know not to touch people!!!. I’ve learned my lesson. I will keep my hands to myself from now on.

I think @dadx (and @oldfort ) is possibly on the right track. She obviously was already upset. My touch wasn’t the cause of her bad mood - it just made it worse. Anyway, although I’ve managed to accept the situation re the team and their dismal record, I’ve had to work at it. I guess I can understand how a parent (especially a tightly wound one) might be upset about:

  1. Having to attend games during the holidays (I don’t think anyone was happy about that - my daughter just told me “I just wasted 12 hours of my vacation sitting on a bus”),
  2. Having to attend a tournament with many people in attendance who’ll be watching our team lose again,
  3. Watching the team perform worse than usual in these circumstances,
  4. And, yes, watch other teams do well, while ours continues to flail (although they have improved this year).

I don’t think that excuses her behavior, but I think it might explain it. She was upset about that or something else, and I responded inappropriately and that set her off.

And @Tigerle

“wasn’t there a teeny tiny bit of “I won’t be dismissed like this” in your reaction? It’s understandable, she was somewhat rude and unreasonable to you”

The answer to that is a solid no. Like I said, I was tone deaf at first (with hindsight being 20/20 I can see that very clearly) and wasn’t aware that she was quite so upset, so I wasn’t in any way offended by her first response of “I don’t want to talk about it.” I wasn’t taken aback by that at all and didn’t consider that part rude - the way she felt was understandable to me. I can very honestly say, that I had good intentions with no other subtle negative emotions in the mix (until after I touched her - and I won’t do that again!).

And I’m still not going to talk to her anymore. Some of you might think I’m taking the low road on this, but if I did otherwise, I’m envisioning this possible scenerio:

Me: Hi, how are you?
Her: For the third time - I don’t want to talk about it!

If she approaches me, I’ll be civil and polite, but I’m not going to do more than that. Stuff like this bothers me too much. So much that I’ve made a New Year’s resolution to not post anymore new discussions on CC. I don’t have thick enough skin for this.

@threebeans Thank you. I always cheer loudly for all the girls on the team (and mention each one by name when they do something noteworthy - every little thing actually), and I will continue to do so. The team is improving and I want to continue to encourage them and hopefully they’ll have some pride in their improvement.

Today they lost to a team they had played before earlier this season, but they cut the number of points the other team won by in half. They also played excellent defense and allowed the opponent’s top scorer only 4 points (I’m sure everyone has figured out this is basketball). So even when they lose, they are improving.

54

I think you need to just forget it and steer clear of her. Sounds like she has other issues going on. I also don’t feel you “contributed” to the exchange. She stated she did not want to talk about it further and you didn’t. It sounds to me as if your slight touch was spur of the moment and meant to be compassionate and also was not overly familiar. I’m not sure the touch is what triggered the outburst as it sounds like she was just ready to explode anyway. That being said, I refrain from touching anyone unless I know them well enough to know they don’t mind. You sound like a nice person- don’t let this exchange stop you from being friendly to others!

55

I think that’s a great solution @LeastComplicated . I’d be taken aback by her reaction as well. If she surprises you by being friendly, great. If not, no loss.

Some parents are WAY too invested in their kids’ sports performance IMO. I think some have been offended that I don’t care as much as they do, don’t lecture my kid on her shortcomings in the game on the way home, etc.

56

Imo it would be a shame if you chose to never interact with this mom again. As others have said, whatever upset her probably has nothing to do with you. But by distancing yourself you are making it more about you. Some people take a future interaction as an opportunity to apologize. Others may be embarrassed and not wanting to bring it up again. You don’t have to reach out to her, but if your girls are friends and you are likely to interact with her again, maybe working on thickening your skin might be helpful. Just a thought.

57

LeastComplicated, you sound like a very kind and thoughtful person. I probably would have done exactly what you did, a quick touch to demonstrate compassion and acknowledgement. And I would find her response rude, regardless of what’s bugging her.

58

“Ok, not the all of the USA, but mostly with non-Asians.”

As a non-Asian, I certainly don’t view it this way, at least in my neck of the woods where folks can be a little more stoic. I did spend parts of my life in other regions of the country, including the south, and it does vary quite a bit.

" Stuff like this bothers me too much. So much that I’ve made a New Year’s resolution to not post anymore new discussions on CC. I don’t have thick enough skin for this."

Remember that none of this is personal. Neither the woman’s reaction (she was in a bad mood obviously) nor the comments here (we don’t know you IRL after all).

59

I do think we could be more supportive on CC, even if we don’t know someone IRL. Over the years, I have had the pleasure of meeting some CC’ers IRL.

There were a lot of (bad) assumptions people made about this 3 second interaction.

60

One of the women I lived with in college once blew up at me after I made a very innocent remark about something insignificant. I was very upset and could not for the life of me figure out what could have possibly have set her off. Sometime later it came up among mutual friends that she did this on occasion and had done this to others. I later found out she had some personal issues (and did some pretty heavy drugs). I felt better after that conversation, but truthfully I was never really comfortable around her after that.