<p>TSDad >>>> Don’t play where you work. Nothing good will come of it.</p>
<p>I spend too much of my professional life dealing with the fallout from inappropriate work relationships. <<<<</p>
<p>Are you a therapist?</p>
<p>LTS, if one works in an office environment–and I don’t–then working only for $$$$ (or worse, $$) is a pretty sad and stale experience. One works as much for psychic gratification, which can take many forms. My sister works for a nationally recognized company that has a definite counter-cultural streak to it and what feeds <em>her</em> is the sense of belonging to a team that’s solving problems. The team thang is extremely important to her whereas it doesn’t particularly float my boat at all. As Kipling said, there are nine-and-sixty ways… (At the health spa, there are nine-and-sixty weighs, but I digress.) </p>
<p>I find many of my real estate colleagues to be either boring or more boring. However, I’ve many interesting clients that I’ve really liked working with, where there’s a definite “click” person to person, and that’s one of the perks of the job. Beyond that, I’m a writer and a writing workshop isn’t exactly an office…but it’s almost impossible for writers who know each other well for years to maintain the kind of clinical detachment you might suggest. Perforce, by the nature of the “business” talking about personal outlooks/business is unavoidable. </p>
<p>Imo, navigating by hard and fast “rules” is no substitute for personal self-awareness and responsibility. </p>
<p>A phenomenon that I have noticed is that some people are unhappy about X, divorce spouse A, take up with new significant other B and often marry, and are still unhappy about X. They’ve misplaced their unhappiness in their relationship with A, when whatever it is about X is something inside of them that they bring with them. Was it Aristotle who said that the unexamined wife is not worth leaving?</p>
<p>TheMom’s boss recently suffered the loss of his wife to cancer after being married almost 40 years. Aside from being depressing–as well as cause for a couple of jokes between us–this prompted some conversations between TheMom and myself. I can more easily contemplate an extramarital “fling” than I can the notion of being married to someone else, so much have each of us become the other’s “other half.” TheMom says that if she died I should re-marry else people will think that she gave me a bad impression of marriage, LOL. Otoh, when she really is adamant against an idea, she tells me to “take it up with your next wife.” A shorthand that tells me that I might just as well pack up the subject now.</p>
<p>emerald : >>>> however on one side or both- sexual tension is going to be part of the relationship.
How well they handle that depends on if they are willing to admit it is there & if they restrict their interaction so that they don’t have an opportunity emotionally to take it to the next level. <<<,</p>
<p>You are so right about sexual tension on one side or the other and the innocent side can have absolutely no idea how the other side is feeling…A good friend of mine (married) had what she thought was a great friendship with a male co-worker. She enjoyed his company. They traveled together on business, and she thought everything was totally platonic (he wasn’t someone that she would be attracted to). She was very surprised when he confessed that he was “very sexually attracted to her” one night when they were traveling. Naturally, she had to explain to him that she considered him to be just a good friend. After that, he has been very cold, and even mean, to her. </p>
<p>I can see where a situation like this (woman wanting true friendship and not knowing that the male (eventually) wants sex ) can easily happen because some (many?) men don’t really want to spend extra time with women that they aren’t attracted to in some way.</p>
<p>TheDad, in my world, person intrusions on business just simply aren’t done; they do not happen. My office “spouse” and I have worked together for many years, very successfully. We HAVE to collaborate intensely on some things because of the nature of our skill sets, which is of course what makes us a profitable team. In addition, we LOVE what we do, and couldn’t imagine ever doing anything else. We travel together all over the country, sometimes for multiple nights in succession. One recent trip to California, my suite was right next to his - which was really yucky for me, because I had been looking forward to going out on my balcony with my coffee early in the morning to enjoy the ocean view - wasn’t going to happen though with the chance that he could do the same thing, and potentially see me on my balcony in a bathrobe. Other times in other hotels, I have scheduled my workouts in the gym when I know he will NOT be working out - so that there are no weird moments when one of us sees the other in spandex. </p>
<p>We’re also both single, same age-range, both never married, and both extremely attractive and we both attract interested members of the opposite sex like flies. </p>
<p>We both date, however, we have NO idea who the other dates, or how seriously. Why? Because it just simply is never, ever discussed. To do so would cross a line that we will not cross. Personal issues have no place in business. Certainly, there have been times when I have received flowers - roses and the like. He will smell the roses, admire the roses, even comment on the roses, but he will NOT ask who sent them. Same with me - he gets lots of phone calls and even Hallmark cards from women, but I do NOT ask “who was she” or “who is the card from” etc. It doesn’t belong in business. </p>
<p>We also support each other when one of us is the target of questionable or undesirable attention. I had a male business appointment come into town and he wanted to go to dinner. I didn’t want to go because I just knew the gentleman was going to cross the line, so, my office spouse went to dinner with him instead. It worked perfectly; I was off the hook and the two of them had a profitable discussion. The same has worked in reverse; women who seek his attention that he would prefer not to see, I step in, and so on.</p>
<p>Years ago someone gave me some very wise advice re business and romance: “measure twice, cut once”. So any time I even consider having a personal relationship with someone important to my business interests, I simply quickly mentally calculate what it could cost me, and, the numbers never add up to “worth it”. </p>
<p>Jlauer - if I may, I think your friend may have made a small tactical error in how she responded to the gentleman who confessed his attraction. She addressed the actor, not the action. Instead of saying that she considered him a friend, why didn’t she simply say something along the lines of “my policy is to never have social relations with colleagues” or “I don’t date people I work with” or, if applicable “our corporate policies and procedures manual says this is against policy” - any of those responses would have positioned it as policy, vs. a ruling of that man’s desirability to her. I’m not surprised he’s a bit cold.</p>
<p>latetoschool “Personal issues have no place in business.”</p>
<p>Then you don’t have an “office spouse”. The definition of an office spouse is someone who you DO share private info with but do not have a “romantic” relationship with. An office spouse knows about your spouse, how happy the marriage is, what your last fight was about, who was at fault, etc. </p>
<p>From the sounds of it, you simply have a business partner. Period. Not an office spouse.</p>
<p>Latetoschool… "why didn’t she simply say something along the lines of “my policy is to never have social relations with colleagues” or “I don’t date people I work with”</p>
<p>Since my friend is MARRIED, it would have been silly for her to say something like, “I don’t date people I work with”… She doesn’t “date” anyone at all!</p>
<p>I realize that I’m looking at this question from a 60-degree angle since I don’t have an “office” that constitutes my customary work space and working community. TheMom has had a number of close friends, both male and female, in her work environment but none have had the exclusive kind of non-spousal “spouse” relationship that seems to be discussed at least partly here.</p>
<p>yes…</p>
<p>An office spouse would be similar to a situation where two female co-workers are “best friends” who share personal info with each other (share home stories, spouse fights, children issues, etc) and sometimes spend “off hours” and/or lunches together. The only difference is that an office spouse is the opposite sex and is not gay.</p>
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<p>I am going to look at the other side of the coin, what is to stop the the female co-worker or your best friend whom you share home stories, spouse fights, children issues, etc, from making a play on your man especially when they know all the weak spots?</p>
<p>To me, the net-net is that sometimes it is very easy to blame others (the office spouse, the best friend, etc) when things go wrong instead of facting the fact that the love of our life may have a few character flaws of their own. Sometimes there are already things amiss in the relationship and people are just looking for an opportunity to get out. We will never know all that goes on in someones realationship behind closed doors and there are 3 sides of the story; yours, mine and the truth.</p>
<p>Think about it, the office spouse, best friend etc, did not stand up next to you and promise to love and be faithful to you. No matter how what your realtionship is with some one, we all make a conscious decision as whether or not to take the next step. Everything comes down to a question of worth, where one has to ask them self is this worth risking my spouse, my family and the life we share?</p>
<p>I am old fashioned. I do not think office spouses are good for those who want to remain happily (and monogamously) married. Emotional intimacy with someone of the opposite sex is not wise.</p>
<p>There was an interesting episode years ago on the TV show Family Ties in which the father begins dressing up for work, wearing cologne, etc., and if I recall properly, he did not consciously realize that he was doing this because he was spending more time with a new attractive female co-worker. Obviously, on a TV show it all turned out OK in the end, but in the real world there is definitely a danger for such temptation for some people. Even if you think that you are a person for whom such relationships are not a problem, your office spouse may one day become weak and have some different ideas.</p>
<p>I am happily married, and my objective is to never fall into adultery. I am (relatively) normal, including my emotions and hormones, etc. I recognize that some behaviors and some locations are more likely to lead me into temptation than others. I dont attend strip clubs, or rent adult videos, etc. I have a filter on my internet, so I am never pulled into various lewd sites. Liberals may label me as being weak, unable to handle temptation. Others might simply consider this behavior wise, recognizing when they see others who fall into adultery that There, but for the grace of God, go I.</p>
<p>I do have to admit that there is a certain married woman at my work whom I find very attractive. Fortunately, I work from home.</p>
<p>Well, I’m late to the party, but I think I would be extremely uncomfortable if my H had such a close relationship with a female co-worker. For many years, his line of work meant that he primarily worked with other men, so I never really gave it a thought. I’m aware of attractive women at his current place of employment, but after 25 years together, I don’t worry about it.</p>
<p>very cute, pafather.</p>
<p>My H and I have eyes for each other only, thank goodness. I do not work in a traditional office setting, so I am not quite ‘in the groove’. H on the other hand, is in the large corporate setting, with plenty of opportunities, I’m sure, but no interest.</p>
<p>Many years ago, I received an anonymous phonecall from a female who claimed that she was pregnant, and my H was the father. When I challenged her, she got hysterical, started yelling etc. She refused to say her name. It was quite funny and pathetic, that she was trying to cause a problem in our nest, and after a few minutes it was obvious that no relationship existed. My H could not figure out who it could have been, as it was a very large workplace, including manufacturing.</p>
<p>Jlauer</p>
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<p>I am a discrimination complaint investigator. I have done that type of work for over 30 years at the State and Federal level and now in a major university. Office romances, particularly where they involve individuals with unequal power, often result in complaints of sex discrimination and sometimes tear offices apart.</p>
<p>Sybbie~</p>
<p>A <em>perfect</em> post. Thumbs WAY up on that one! ~berurah</p>
<p>pafather: "I do have to admit that there is a certain married woman at my work whom I find very attractive. "</p>
<p>I would think in many work situations a person is likely to find <em>someone</em> attractive if there are a fair number of people of the opposite sex that work there. That would just seem to be the odds. </p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with the way that you conduct yourself. There is nothing wrong with avoiding situations which might tempt you (a healthy red-blooded male). Afterall, when we’re dieting, do any of us hang out at the ice cream parlor or candy story? I doubt it.</p>
<p>Sybbie, you make some good points. How many times have we heard that someone’s “best friend” has had an affair with her husband… We know of such a situation. The wives were very close and the families always went camping together. One night the wife woke up and found her husband “with” her best friend. They had been having an affair for quite some time.</p>
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<p>I’m afraid I would disagree, in the case of PaFather. There’s <em>nothing</em> wrong with his giving in to temptation once in a while. Maybe take this lady out on a date, wine her and dine her - who knows? He might get lucky…</p>
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I say you should go for it. Make that married woman happy ;)</p>
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haha jlauer, you missed the part where pafather said that he works at the candy store.</p>
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<p>Maybe you should change your SN from optimizerdad to optimizercad ;)</p>
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<p><strong><em>ROFLMAO</em></strong> OD!!! Ummmmmm, jlauer, you might wanna go and reread pafather’s original post! :eek:</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>afraid I would disagree, in the case of PaFather. There’s <em>nothing</em> wrong with his giving in to temptation once in a while. Maybe take this lady out on a date, wine her and dine her - who knows? He might get lucky…</p>
<p>if you like fireworks you might keep what not to do in mind.
<a href=“http://www.komotv.com/news/story_m.asp?ID=43624[/url]”>http://www.komotv.com/news/story_m.asp?ID=43624</a></p>