<p>If my adult son wants to drive my car and I want proof that he is not drinking when I suspect he is, he danged well better pee in that cup. Cuz he won’t be driving my car if he declines. When you have the dignity to refuse a police officer the same request, you lose your license in my state.</p>
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<p>Actually, they have inexpensive breathalyzers you can buy now - no peeing required. :)</p>
<p>I know several people who have them. Bought after their kids were caught drinking and driving. I would hate to have to succumb to that but, OTOH, I would hate it more if my kid killed himself or someone else when a simple test could have alerted me to a potential problem. The fact that the OP’s son refused the test pretty much means he was drinking and driving. When you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing.</p>
<p>Kids are also inconsistent. I have one who will call and ask permission for something that is so obviously ok, and then will sneak off and do something that is ever so not ok. Just because they call and ask permission for something doesn’t mean they are not doing things that they would not call and ask. It isn’t worth getting in trouble for doing something that would probably be given a green light if you ask, but kids are not about to ask permission for some things. Do you really think your D would call and ask if she could squeeze 8 kids in a car from some carnival event? I don’t think so. Do you think she would call and ask if someone can borrow the car for a frat road trip? Highly doubt it. I know kids who have lent out their parent’s (and sister’s ) care for both of these purposes.</p>
<p>Any decent swimmer can pass a breathalyzer test as my boys have gamely shown. My son got in trouble at college for giving lessons on how to pass one of those tests.</p>
<p>The speeding is an issue that can be fairly innocent. You can go over the speed limit without thinking and it does not have to be that much at times to get a ticket. I would not automatically pull the car away for that. It’s really more that entire feeling of mistrust more than individual mistakes. </p>
<p>My friend’s daughter had her car that her dad bought for her totaled when a friend dropped her off at the airport and then started back home with it. She did not want to keep it at the airport for the 2 weeks she was going to be gone. Well, the friend had an accident. Thankfully she was unhurt but the car was gone. The father refused to get another car for her and the insurance barely covered the loan, so she was without a car. Bad luck.</p>
<p>^^^^^</p>
<p>Cpt, do tell. My D is a swimmer, and I am befuddled on how they would do this?</p>
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<p>Good point - will need to think about this more. You’re right.</p>
<p>Funny, we were having a discussion on the parents forum earlier about Beach Week and whether kids could be trusted to go off for the week by themselves. There were plenty of parents who argued that their kids could be trusted. Even though in my area, Beach Week is well-known for being a week-long drunk fest and in our state, almost every year, someone dies during Beach Week - parent chaperones or not. </p>
<p>I wonder if that trust can’t also apply to the ‘car’ issue. I just talked to my husband about my concerns about son taking car and husband replied, “I never lent my car out in college. Sure some kids will do that but most don’t.” Will need to think long and hard about this. Son has never given us reason to not trust him. I would like to trust him on this matter but have no problem verifying that he is following our rules. Sigh…parenting is hard. :)</p>
<p>I don’t swim, so I don’t get it. I also don’t drink and drive so it is not an issue with me. But, apparently, you can beat a breathalyzer test if you know how to breath in the outside air and expell it without it getting any alcohol fumes in it. Swimmers are particularly adept at this since rhythmic breathing is essential to their success in the races. Mine are all swimmers, one national level, so they all know how to control their breathing very well. </p>
<p>Ironically, the best swimmer in the world flunked the breathalyzer test. Also passing the test isn’t going to do you a bit of good when you smell like a gin factory or beer brewery but come up with zero.</p>
<p>Momlive, you can make some of these decisions by knowing your kid. It didn’t take a psychiatrist to figure out that one of mine could not be trusted with a car, with drink with anything, for that matter. Another is just weak when it comes to peer pressure because he just wants to be accepted and have friends so badly. Another is very rigid, and is probably the least likely to lend out HIS car after seeing what his brothers did with cars. MY car, well, I wouldn’t bet on that . Another is pretty strong in not bending to peer pressure, but would probably end up chauffering hard luck cases when he should not be doing so. But he is in a situation where he would really be under the gun to load up his car and drive places, given his sports and activities. So it’s not just shooting in the dark. Many parents who do give their kids cars are deliberately putting their heads in the sand. Most of us realize there are risks, but hope that we dodge the bullets that come our way, and the chances are usually pretty good we do. But when you have one like my troublemaker, you know you are a prime target.</p>
<p>We have been in your shoes except that we don’t think our son ever drove after drinking. We bought a small portable breathalyzer and used it routinely with no advance warning and it never showed he had been drinking and driving. What did concern me was that he and his friends had “designated drivers” that I didn’t trust. I told him that when you all go to a party, you are not following the DD around to confirm that he is not drinking, and because you are drinking you would not recognize if the DD did. I have always told my children that no matter what mistakes they make, we will be there to support them EXCEPT if they ever injure anyone because they have been drinking. I just have no tolerance for that.</p>
<p>We did take our son off of our insurance because of the number of accidents( Non-alcohol related) he had. However, he had to show us proof of insurance (and I confirmed it) while we paid for school. He also had to buy his own cars and pay for all of his tickets. We helped him with his first car which he promptly totaled; that was the end of that!</p>
<p>Fortunately he seems to have outgrown that phase of his life; he is working professionally now and says he doesn’t have time to waste and is too tired in his off-hours to party much anymore. Also fortunately, our other 3 have never really gone thru that phase. However I sympathize with you as it was really a tough period in our child-raising days. We were very strict and stuck to our guns. While he was in school and we were paying for it, we told him that if he didn’t follow our rules, we would not pay for school. </p>
<p>The portable breathylizers are reasonably priced and a good investment. I would tell him that if he refuses the test, you will no longer support him financially. It sounds harsh, but it is the only right thing to do. Not only will you be protecting society, but you will also be protecting yourself from the liability if something were to happen.</p>
<p>After I wrote the last post I noticed the post about beating the breathalizer. In talking to friends who are in law enforcement, they have said that it is very difficult to do consistently. There are some brands that are better than others in that regard. We felt that the results were good. On the other hand, we didn’t really suspect that he had been drinking and driving, just that he was very careless. If you really think it is a problem you should probably use the urine test.</p>
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<p>I agree. Although I tend to come down on the conservative side with son. He thinks I’m way too strict. But I know too much - I was wild as a teen so it’s hard for him to get away with much. I’m usually the Mom who’s saying no… Although I have lightened up since he’s almost 19. Honestly, I never gave the car thing a second thought until we went to orientation and then a lot of red flags started popping up. </p>
<p>I really do appreciate the discussion about this. It’s given me much to think about. Thanks.</p>
<p>I think it really depends on kids. D1 is all about her. She doesn’t like to deal with problem or clean up after anyone. So I know she would never want to have a party when we are away (too much cleaning up) or lend out her car (because why? what’s in it for her?). Most girls would borrow each other clothes, not D1. Her sorority sisters know not even bother to ask. Whereas with D2 she could be influenced much by peer pressure. She has been caught a few times doing things she is not suppose to do because “everyone else is doing it.”</p>
<p>Trust me, my boys can beat the breathalyzer. The ones the police use. They’ve done it. One ended up thrown into the psych ward of a hospital because they figured if he wasn’t drunk, he was crazy. He had a blood alcohol of over 2 and registered zero on several breathalyzers. The police are not interested in letting the word out that it is really not difficult to beat the breathalyzer. The cops in Buffalo had my son washing their police cars in the winter when he was caught teaching a bunch of college students how to breathe to beat the things. Yes, you can beat the breathalyzer.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that we cannot afford to have our kids have problems with our insurance. We cannot afford to give them our cars to take to college. So, I can’t take that chance, even if I were inclined to do so and my kids were the most trustworthy kids on earth. </p>
<p>My current college student could have gotten a car if he had chosen to stay home and commute to a local school that offered him a generous scholarship. Instead he chose a school two time zones away that is on the edge of being unaffordable for us. So a car is out of the question unless he pays for it himself.</p>
<p>It makes life simpler in many ways when you just can’t do it. We are on the brink of losing our insurance, can’t afford a hefty increase in rates, can barely afford our cars. So our kids don’t get cars until they can to pay for them and get their own insurance. If we permitted one of ours to get his license, we would be in really dire financial straits, because he has been in so much trouble with motor vehicles even without a license (he says it’s because he’s without a license, but that is not true). It’s difficult to withhold things from your kids when you can afford to provide them and they so want those things and have been great kids and earned your trust. We had a good reason for saying, no–we pretty much had to do so.</p>
<p>I started using the following on advice from a the HS, presented by local law enforcement and an ER doctor…
- CarChip works great as it tracks all sorts of things; speed, length of trip by date/time. Takes away the “but I wasn’t speeding” explanation/excuse.
- Breathalyzer and drug tests work great as a deterrent. HS aged-kids can say, “I can’t drink, my parents test me.” They recommended making is random, except on holidays, until there was a problem; then make it mandatory.
- Field trip to the ER on a Saturday night and 5 visits to AA meeting. Kids learn from experience. Son did the 5 AA meetings after getting caught by us drinking - what a reality check. Turned out, he saw a older guy he works with and discovered the guy had killed someone while in his teens - went to prison.</p>
<p>Son is off to college in the fall. One small fender-bender, two tickets; one wiped by traffic school. He paid for all and lost use of the car with each one. He never was going to get to take a car, but now even renting a ZipCar is out. He’ll use local transit, a bike and rides with his roommate (we plan to have him pay for gas). We told him we were cutting his insurance, but do intend to keep it; just in case he gets himself in a situation wherein he chooses to drive the car owner home. We told him we’d reimburse for all taxi use as incentive to not drive and never ride with a drinker. He’s taking a breathalyzer, on a keychain, with him.</p>
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<p>I like this idea. A friend gave her all legal age kids (in their 20s) breathalyzer devices for Christmas and each got a $50 bill to keep their wallet to pay for a taxi.</p>
<p>I’ve always thought it was a little trickier with underage kids. Giving them a breathalyzer is almost like giving them permission to drink. OTOH, chances are they are going to drink anyway, so maybe once they go off to college it is better to assume they will drink and give them instructions on how to do so safely. I know I will breathe a big sigh of relief the day son turns 21! At least he’ll get legal and we won’t have to worry about underage drinking. Will still worry but it will be one less thing.</p>
<p>S refused alcohol test? He’s done with my car, and with any car I have the power to pull. In a lot of jurisdictions, the cops will pull your license for six months for refusing an alcohol test. That’s about right in my book.</p>
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<p>I like this idea, too, but I like it a lot better when the bars pay for the taxi ride themselves.</p>
<p>In my college town, they did just that. It was called Zero Hero program. And most bars gave free soft drinks to designated drivers!</p>
<p>Don’t exhale too hard at age 21. My oldest’s troubles started then. He was careful about his drinking, of which he did very little until it was legal. Then he felt he could drink all he wanted since it was no longer illegal. The lunkhead didn’t get it that too much alcohol at any age can get you into trouble. The drinking age laws do serve as a deterrent to some kids’ drinking. Though they may sneak a drink, they drink a lot less and keep it under the radar. Once it’s legal, they go all out, because, what the heck, they can!</p>
<p>My son did not have any car accidents until after age 21 either. Though he was not drinking when he had any of his car issues, they all occurred once he was 21, and I had finally exhaled.</p>