<p>Hanna, six months? Here in NY, it is considered that you flunked the test if you don’t take it and you lose your license. YOu can even lose your car. That’s why I think that the kid who declined th test, should have been assumed guilty. Dignity, my tail end. If you are on someone’s insurance,driving the car they provided to you, and they want you to take a drug/alcohol test, if you decline, I think it is perfectly right that they pull those privileges. If you don’t like it, don’t drive on vehicles that they have insured.</p>
<p>The OP asks for an opinion. Here’s mine:</p>
<p>Many parents are far too tolerant of illegal underage drinking and that tolerance kills children. These parents are supposedly being realistic - their children will drink anyway, blah blah blah. These parents want to be friends with their children and be thought of highly by the cool kids.</p>
<p>When these parents entrust their children with cars, they risk not only their children’s lives, they risk ours. So do us all a favor: give your children a choice. If they want to drink illegally, take away their licenses. Physically take them, put them in a shredder, and burn the pieces. Don’t let them near a car, even if you think they haven’t been drinking because you never know where they might go and what they might drink after they leave. Whatever you do, don’t “trust” them to do the right thing because by drinking illegally they have already established that they can’t follow rules and are unworthy of that trust.</p>
<p>And if you think the worst you’ll do here (assuming your child doesn’t get killed) is have your insurance company pay for someone’s wrongful death, think again. You’ll get off cheap if your child kills someone but if your child merely causes permanent physical injury or brain damage kiss every non-protected asset goodbye because you’re going to lose everything if you own the car.</p>
<p>Another lecture about under age drinking, which is under 21. Not all kids from age 18-21 are irresponsible. There are just as many DUI over 21.</p>
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<p>This number of bad incidents on the road in a short time is not “somewhat typical” for any age group. </p>
<p>If it were my child, I would not let him drive until he can prove himself worthy of the responsibility.</p>
<p>my sophomore chemistry teacher had a good idea. It’s unreasonable to put a curfew on an adult. but it is reasonable to put a curfew on your car. </p>
<p>given the hassle it will involve, it will likely keep him from lots of late-night drinking. or, at least, it’s the best you can do</p>
<p>^My parents do that-- and I am 21. In my social circle if you are going to drink, you usually opt to sleep over at the hosts house to avoid drunk driving. Since I am a smart, responsible person, I choose not to drink since I know I cannot stay the night since the car has to be home. If I were not a smart, responsible person-- ie the type who would ever drive drunk, I don’t know if that would stop me from “just having a drink or two, of course not getting WASTED!” and we all know how good young people (and some others) are at judging their tolerance level. Not being able to keep the car overnight keeps me from drinking because it takes away the only responsible way to do it, which I feel like is only going to work for an already responsible kid.</p>
<p>I appreciate so many of the suggestions, but the thread has veered. I am sincerely looking for some support to help my S! OK, so even if you think I messed up as a parent, or that my S is irresponsible, I am still trying to turn this around. What can I do now, at this late date, to help my child make more responsible decisions about drinking and driving? I am very worried, for him, for others, and even for myself. Right now, he has withdrawn and won’t talk to me (which is fine if it’s getting him to think). I know he feels bad, but that’s not enough. I need to help him so when he leaves in a few weeks and goes back to school, he will be better prepared. And parents, beware. My son makes good grades, never partied in high school, has always been a good kid, and is the one everyone always says is SO responsible. But I think he has lied to me since going off to college. Designated driver? Not drinking too much? Not drinking and driving? Not ever using any drugs? I was reassured many many times about these issues. We have talked about them on and off on a regular basis since middle school. But something happened…I believe he lied to me about these issues. I am devastated. I just want him to be an honest and responsible person who makes good decisions related to drinking.</p>
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<p>And what exactly was the offense?</p>
<p>I don’t think its a crime to teach someone to crack a safe, what they do with the knowledge could constitute a crime.</p>
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<p>With regard to driving: don’t let him drive your car until he has proven himself to be responsible with an automobile. As a first step, require him to find and attend a course or program to improve driving skills and attitude. </p>
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<p>Would he be willing to see a therapist?</p>
<p>I’m very involved with the parent organization at son’s high school. This past spring I arranged for an evening on teen driving safety. The California Highway Patrol came. They brought a film that was made by kids at a local high school after a terrible accident that shook that community where alcohol was the cause. The film was outstanding. It followed a morning of several students who decided to ditch a period one class and go drink. On the way back to school, a terrible accident ensues with a terrible outcome. It was very powerful. Then the film showed a trial for the driver who was sentenced to many years in prison – a shocking number of years for an 18 year old. Then the father of one of the sons in that horrible accident described the night his son called him and the scene of the accident. I don’t know where you live, but if you live in CA, you might be able to get your son to see that film via the CHP. If you live in another state, your highway patrolmen will have similar films. Call SADD and arrange a meeting with a young person who has killed someone else while driving drunk. Take him to a morgue if necessary. I realize he is over 18, but you might be able to get him to do some of those things.</p>
<p>not2keen,
Think about your situation/problem as involving at least three issues. Each may have to be targeted separately. 1) The relationship. Think about how to get back on some neutral ground with your son. Right now, he’s so defensive that nothing you say or do is likely to get through. 2) The car. As others have pointed out, your financial liability is virtually unlimited. It’s important to decide and communicate what you need to do to protect yourself and the family finances. 3) Your son’s judgment and decision-making regarding alcohol. Consider calling your son’s college (or checking on-line) to see what resources they have. Research is showing that some positive effects are occurring from participation in a BASICS Program (Brief Alcohol Screening and Intervention with College Students). Many colleges and universities have this program available through their counseling centers, health centers, or wellness programs. It doesn’t use fear tactics, doesn’t lecture, and yet improves the decision-making that students use regarding alcohol use.
Good luck. Too bad we can’t just keep them locked up until their good adult judgment kicks in.</p>
<p>He needs to be a better driver first. That level of accidents is NOT typical at all. Divorce that issue from the drinking for a moment.</p>
<p>The data at most colleges indicates that among white males, there are relatively few “moderate” drinkers. They are either bingeing at least once every two weeks (usually more than once), or don’t drink at all. </p>
<p>I think you have to assume unless proven otherwise that if you know your kid drinks, and has a car at school, he does drink and drive. Young people think they are invincible, and once they do it once without consequences, they have “learned” that they can do it again</p>
<p>Neither of my kids had cars at college - in fact, I don’t even think we discussed it - it wasn’t an issue. My graduate student doesn’t have a car. If they want to pay for it, with their money, and they purchase their own insurance, then I say “congratulations”. They are shouldering adult responsibilities.</p>
<p>You should never put yourself in a position where another ADULT feels obligated to lie to you. You did your job well, and now it is time for the young man to step up if he chooses and takes responsibility. But responsibility has nothing to do with your providing a car for him. Let him become an adult, and that means budgeting for his own car and insurance if that’s what he, as an adult, chooses.</p>
<p>First, figure out the pattern of when and where he has those accidents. Was it at night? With friends in the car? Unfamiliar roads? If those less-than-optimal conditions act to hinder his driving skills, limit them. I’d for sure disallow him to drive someone else’s car while at college. It’s just stupid and asking for trouble.</p>
<p>How do you make him aware of his pattern of accidents? Have a “serious” talk. Or have an objective third party monitor (psychologist, or priest, or former teacher, or favorite uncle) that talk. </p>
<p>If you’re thinking he’s having accidents while driving, again, bring someone in who can talk to him. There are people who go to homes and talk to young adults one-on-one about these dangers, usually they’ve have personal experience, and this topic really hits home. See link below.</p>
<p>More immediately, I would lay down the law that he may not have your car at school and cannot borrow someone else’s car. Not having a car limits those problems. And aside from paying for those tickets, car repair, and insurance, how about send him back to driving school?</p>
<p>I just looked up the name of the group who’ll come to give talks about the hurtful dui experience. I think this is it:
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<p>First of all, unless the DPS has revoked the license, what good is taking the son’s license and shredding it going to do? All he has to do is report it lost and get another one.</p>
<p>Second, the OP’s son goes away to college. Just exactly how is she going to enforce her rule that he not borrow anyone else’s car, much less “not let him get near a car?”</p>
<p>It seems to me that since he doesn’t drive her car at college, denying him the use of her car only solves one of these many problems. The only way to enforce these other restrictions that are being presented is to bring him home and send him to a local college so that she has more oversight of his activities. It doesn’t sound as though that idea is really on the table at present.</p>
<p>Nrdsb4: true, there’s very little you can enforce when kids go away to college. But, if he’s having accidents driving other cars while away, then he has a serious issue that could only get worse. He could just be a very bad driver, since others have pointed out that cops have not issued anything about dui with those tickets he has gotten.</p>
<p>He needs to grow up and understand he needs to act more responsibly when behind the wheel. That’s why I suggested sending him to more lessons. Even if drinking is not an issue, this kid should still hear about the personal trauma of what COULD happen if you mix drinking and driving. He sounds like an accident waiting to happen.</p>
<p>I’m reluctant to think he needs to live at home because of his driving record. After all, wouldn’t he be driving more if he did? However, I haven’t heard the OP mention anything she’s done that establishes consequences (pay for tickets, property damage or insurance) other than to get a bigger car. I do think he should know of this as a possibility, but be sure to enforce those other restrictions so he knows you’re serious.</p>
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<p>I agree with all you’ve said. I don’t think sending him to class is a bad idea; I’m just not optimistic it will do any good. Kids this age are already aware of the dangers of speeding, reckless driving, etc. Most just don’t get that the laws of probability and physics apply to THEM personally. I remember seeing all those hideous car accident films when I took driver’s ed. As horrified as I was, I never believed for a second anything like that would ever happen to me. It turned out that I became a very conservative, responsible driver, not because I was afraid of the physical consequences, but because I was afraid of authority figures like cops pulling me over and giving me a ticket (DD of a military man). </p>
<p>As many consequences as she can enforce on him, the better. Like you said, paying tickets, property damage, etc. should be on the table immediately.</p>
<p>I’ve had experience with this. Once you find out substances are not involved, the best thing you can do is make him pay for the costs involving his accidents and tickets including insurance increases and damages to cars.</p>
<p>Not2keen, there are many things that college student, adult and nearly adult kids are not going to share with their parents. In fact, many do outright lie about these things to their parents when asked. There really isn’t any magic path that will solve this problem. If there is, I’d like to know it. Astute parents often get an inkling, without proof, but an inkling, a feeling, a something that their kids may be doing things that are unacceptable to them. Sometimes there isn’t a thing one can do. First of all, you just might be wrong. Second of all, getting definitive proof that your feelings are right may not be possible. You have to understand the position you are in, before running on ahead making all kinds of consequences. It often does no good, since the kid does not believe that he will get caught and is willing to take that risk. Films, talks, tours of facilities, threats, contracts, there is no way of knowing if any of these things are going to do a bit of good. I’ve known kids who have been through all of these things who still drink and drive. Most of them have not been caught which makes it even more difficult to convince kids of that age that of the magnitude of the risk.</p>
<p>All you can do is firmly let your kid know what your position is. Then you simply do not lend out your car to your kid except in controlled situations. It’s your car, your insurance, your finances, your headache if anything goes wrong, and if you are not comfortable in taking that risk, that is your business. In our case, there is no question, that any of our kids are getting a car for college. Thanks to our oldest two kids who cost us an arm and leg, and nearly our sanity in traffic issues, the younger ones know that we just cannot afford, monetarily to take that risk. For them to get their own cars, they have to buy it with their own funds and insure it themselves. We can barely afford the insurance as we have it right now. We can barely afford to pay for their college and private school, and they know it. A car for them is just not in the equation.</p>
<p>Also, we need our cars. Can’t have them out with the cars because we must have them. So they use the cars for short self contained missions with no open ended use. Yes, they can go to a friend’s house and back,but the car has to be back at a certain time. Our car, our rules. WE cannot afford a screw up in this area as we are on the brink of losing our insurance as it is. </p>
<p>I don’t say anything about suspicions, mistrust, etc about them. Those are just “fightin’ words” and I don’t want a fight. Too old, tired and beat up for that. I just cannot take the risk. And we are talking about good kids here. I truly believe that my college student and high schooler would not take risks and would do the right thing, but we just can’t afford even a true innocent accident, which can happen any time to anybody. And that is how we leave it.</p>
<p>As for driving other people’s cars, drinking and driving, getting into a car with a drunk driver, along with any number of other stupid things people do, there is just nothing a parent or anyone can do about it. All you can do is to cut down on the opportunities, and cut down your obligations and risks. If a kid is driving YOUR car with YOUR insurance and has problems, it’s going to be on YOUR record and be YOUR liability. If your kid has problems while driving someone else’s car, it will be that person’s problems. It will be between those interested parties and your kid. You can only pray that whatever issues occur, that they are not serious ones. But at least you will be in the best position to help since your head is not on the block if something bad does happen. You can’t be that helpful when you are fighting for your own financial life in a situation. Also it’s not as easy to borrow someone’s car as it is to just jump in your own car. There are kids out there that are not going to be interested in lending out their cars to others, some who are going to be very picky about the circumstances under which they lend out the cars. Not every kid has a car either. So it really cuts down on the opportunities to drive when they do not have a car at college. It completely eliminates the issue of someone else borrowing the car cuz there ain’t no car to lend out. You are just cutting down on the number of risks and opportunities for abuse. Short of keeping the kid in the attic, there is no way to eliminate them altogether, and if the kid is determined to lead a risky life or can’t resist immediate temptations, there really is nothing a parent or anyone can do. Just don’t be party to any of the transgressions that may occur so that you are in the best shape to deal with any issues that may arise.</p>