<p>not2keen,
I have reread your 3 posts and it seems that you are seeking the impossible. You want to know how you can guarantee that once your son returns to college, that he will make good decisions regarding driving, drinking, drugs etc. Realistically, I think you know there is no such thing. When we send our children off to college we all would like to know that they are eating right, sleeping well, going to class, doing their work etc. We hope they are not staying up all night, cutting class, drinking, smoking, doing drugs etc. But there are no guarantees. For some kids the thought of failure or their parents disapproval keeps them on the straight and narrow but there are others who are risk takers, experimenters who like living on the edge, so to speak. Some get away with it, some don’t. For some kids seeing a movie about the dangers of drinking and driving is enough, for others it is not, they have to live it. There is no one size fits all. </p>
<p>We have the best job in the world as parents. We are blessed to have our amazing kids in our homes for 18 years to guide them into hopefully bright, responsible, young adults. There comes the time, however, when we send our kids off on their own and hold our breath and cross our fingers that we did a good job teaching them all the rights and wrongs of life. They will make mistakes, and the teaching continues. I believe that there must be consequences for bad behavior. The consequence should fit the mistake. In your situation, you seem to fear that once he returns to college that he will continue his poor driving habits in borrowed cars or possibly drink and drive. Why can’t you just tell him that he is not to borrow anyone’s car or drink and drive. Not happening? Well how is this for a consequence…if you do,then you will not be returning to XYZ university no matter what. He already knows the consequence, now the decision is his. Is that enough to keep him honest or is he the risk taker I talked about, willing to put his future (and possibly yours) on the line for a ride. Seems kind of harsh but I think that what is more of a concern to you is that you can’t trust him because you feel he is lying to you. As I said in an earlier post, I do not believe your son’s behavior is “typical” for a college student. Perhaps there is more going on with him. No one on cc can tell you how to make him make the better decision, that is in his hands. But to be sure if you are leery that he will engage in dangerous behavior, let him know up front what he is risking. For some kids borrowing someone’s car at college is really no big deal. But for others, especially someone like your son who has a history of questionable driving, it is very much a big deal. You just have to realize that there is no guarantee that he will make the right decision and sometimes some kids need to lose something important to them before they realize that maybe mom and dad knew what they were talking about. It could be his education, it could even be his freedom should he get locked up for drinking and driving. If you feel he is not mature enough to live away from you and make his own decisions, then keep him home until he is.</p>
<p>Listen to what the others are saying because there would not be any court that would be sympathetic to a drunk driver that has killed or injured an innocent person.</p>
<p>The son refusing the alcohol test is definitely a red flag; restricting his driving rights after such a debacle would certainly be understandable.</p>
<p>That said, some of you are coming down way too hard on college kids. Yes, people drink underage; they do so quite frequently in college. There is never an excuse to drink and drive (unless you are over the age of 21 and only had say, a beer with dinner), but denigrating kids for drinking in college (and yes, even in high school) is just unrealistic. Moreover, if you teach your kids to look down upon their peers who drink before 21 because it is “illegal”, your S or D will likely be viewed as a pretentious jerk by most of his or her peers. Not drinking is a personal decision, and most people can respect that, but come on, the high horse is a bit ridiculous.</p>
<p>I was a wild child in high school. Two drinking tickets, two speeding tickets, reckless driving, one accident (minor). When I had to pay for an attorney, I got a job and paid for it out of my own pocket. That taught me more than any punishment by my parents ever could have. Now, I drive like a Florida granny in the slow lane, cruise control set firmly on the limit and not over. Do I do this because I’m afraid of my parents? No, I’m just sick to death of paying attorneys after I’ve acted irresponsibly. Sometimes you just have to let your kid discover things the hard way-it’ll be much more of a wakeup call than anything you could ever do.</p>
<p>Of course, you should always go to extreme measures to prevent drunk driving. I’m not saying let your kid drive drunk (please don’t), but as far as the wrecks and insurance and other consequences go, let the kid keep driving and make him pay for everything. I guarantee you it’ll teach him to become a better driver.</p>
<p>^^^^ I don’t think anyone is being unrealistic here. This kid has a awful driving record when he was sober and now the mother suspects that he may be drinking and driving. </p>
<p>When I was about to graduate college I received a phone call from one of my best friends buddy. They were on there way back to their apartment with a Christmas tree on their roof when a drunk driver slammed into the passanger side of the car. My best friend Kevin was killed and his buddy viewed the horrors of seeing what he looked like with his face torn apart. Kevin died immediately and the drunk driver did not have more than cuts and bruses. Kevins death left his parents, friends and loved ones lives forever changed. He was an amazing person who had just graduated Harvard the previous May. He never had a chance to have a wife, family or the enjoyment of everything he had worked so hard to achieve. The drunk SOB got out of jail within six months and I would imagine went on to live with his wife and children. There is not a drunk driver who has the right to be on the road and when a parent allows their kid do drive when theey obviously do not have the good judgement to do so, then they to should be held accountable in a court of law. I would not only sue the kid but the parents of a kid for every nickel they had if a drunk driver injured a hair on one of my kids heads.</p>
<p>To the OP, My generation made some of the worst mistakes involving drugs and driving which is why my generation has made sure that people who drive under the influence can no longer continue to drive the next day. Listen to the advice you are getting and stop protecting your “smart great student who appears to be responsible in the eyes of others”. He is none of the above he is a kid that needs to be reeled in and set straight.</p>
<p>You just try to reduce the chances of problems, the opportunities for problems. Giving a kid a car at college is going to sky rocket those odds. Whether it happens or not, is one thing, but you are putting yourself at higher risks. It’s not that not giving them a car is eliminating all risks, but giving them a car just increases the risks.</p>
<p>In college towns, the cops are usually pretty lenient about drunk students unless they get really unruly. I’ve walked through the thick of college areas, and seen any number of kids, easily underage drinking. But if you are behind the wheel of a car, that becomes a whole other story. You can have the book thrown at you for that one. It can not only be a death or destruction problem, but a huge financial and time devastator when your kid gets caught driving under the influence or driving a car with others having contraband on hand. Yeah, they usually hit the driver really hard in those cases, and you will go through a gauntlet that will leave you stunned even if no one was hurt. The time, expense, the trouble, the threats, the stress are enormous when something like that happens. I want to reduce the probability of these things as much as possible. Not having a car is a big step in that direction.</p>
<p>This whole idea of denying college-age kids access to a vehicle just seems foreign to me. Even in high school I could count the number of people I knew without their own vehicle on one hand, and still have a few fingers to spare. Most of us were greatly irresponsible in those years, but several years later we are all alive today. Out of the hundred or so people that I keep in touch with from high school there have been 4 or 5 dui’s, no serious accidents and plenty of lessons learned. But denying your kids access to a vehicle because of what might happen seems a little overbearing unless you have good reason to suspect some risky behavior, as in the OP’s case.</p>
<p>Failing to give someone a car is not “denying them access to a vehicle.” Maybe if we’re talking about an international student not authorized to work in the U.S. Otherwise, get a job if you want a car.</p>
<p>People are a whole lot less likely to crash a car they’ve bought and paid for.</p>
<p>Whereas giving a car to a dangerous driver so he can go out and kill someone seems foreign to me. As someone else said upthread, this kid is a dangerous driver even sober, and now his parents suspect he’s driving drunk also? How do you live with yourself after you hand the car keys to your kid and he runs over a bicyclist because he’s been drinking? How do you look yourself in the mirror every morning, thinking about how that cyclist is never going to her son’s graduation, never going to see her daughter marry, never going to hold her grandchildren? How? (Of course, you won’t be in your house looking in your mirror, because you’ll have lost your house. But money-- your money-- can’t bring someone back from the dead.)</p>
<p>Yeah, screw other people on the road. That’s a good attitude.</p>
<p>Look, if my kid is not what I deem a reasonably safe driver, he’s not on the road. Period. End of subject. If that means he doesn’t get my car, oh wellz.</p>
<p>I am pleased that you were able to improve your driving skills without killing or maiming anyone. However, if faced with a kid with a driving record like yours or OP’s, many of us are not willing to just watch and hope that the kid doesn’t kill himself or others, and/or ruin us financially, on the theory that learning is or will be occurring.</p>
<p>I think it will be far safer and more prudent to have the kid walk or pay for bus tickets–in dollars and in inconvenience–so he can develop an incentive to drive better without risking the lives of everyone who happens to be in his path while he may (or may not) be learning.</p>
<p>This has always been a spectacularly non-compelling argument for me. I went to hs with kids whose parents bought them cars for their 16th birthday, but when it came time for college they had “no money” and wound up at Southwest Missouri State. My rising high school seniors have to share cars with me / my H. I work at home, so that’s easy enough to arrange, but I am not obligated to provide them with their own car. They get downtown and to their jobs / volunteer work using public transportation – which is both better for the environment and a way to develop city-skills for my suburban kids. Our plan is to buy them cars when they graduate college, but as of this writing, I see no reason that they “need” cars in college unless some situation drastically changes.</p>
<p>I am sort of curious about something. Many people I know don’t let their kids take a car freshman year but then let them have it sophomore through senior year. That seems to be the norm unless a kid is very far away from home or there are remaining kids at home that need the car. When people on this thread talk about not letting their kid take their car to college, are you talking about all four years? If not, what do you think has changed between freshman and sophomore or junior year that would assure you that your child is now trustworthy of a car? Just curious - trying to make some decisions of my own.</p>
<p>I went to a college in a city. The school simply did not provide parking lots for student cars. The meager parking available was carefully watched and assigned. That took care of any car issues for most students. Though some of you may know a lot of kids who had their own cars at age 16, or in high school and college. that was not the case here. My son goes to highschool in NYC and cannot drive there until he is 18. That ends that issue. </p>
<p>Everyone has to draw a line where s/he feels comfortable. BUt don’t let yourself be bullied into something cuz everyone did. First of all everyone doesn’t. And it really comes down to what chances you want to take with their lives, others’ lives, other medical issues, liability and a great big pain in the neck among other places if things go wrong… I just can’t do it.</p>
<p>Want to add that H’s cousins’ kids all have cars. Somehow, someone or the family is able to scrape up cars for those kids. And oh, how it makes them proud and happy. But they can’t pay for college, they are saying, and a whole lot of other things too. A matter of priorities there.</p>
<p>If you can afford it financially, and mentally, that’s fine. Just be aware of the risks you are taking.</p>
<p>My oldest son did not need a car when he was atending school in Boston. Our two middle sons are rising seniors at Cornell. They have proved to be very responsible and they will have a car for their senior year. How do you know if your kid is responsible…when they have done nothing to prove otherwise, are open, aware of how their acts could affect you the parents and show personal responsibilty in their academic, social, and personal life.</p>
<p>Absent unusual circumstances (such as a medical need requiring a kid to go to regular doctor visits that couldn’t be handled by public transportation or a cab), I simply can’t imagine there is a real need. A car is a luxury, not a necessity.</p>
<p>Looking at the schools that my 2 kids are looking at, most are in / near big cities (Boston, Phila, DC), where there is public transportation (and I think a little inconvenience of public transportation is not such a bad life lesson), and there are a few that are in small towns - in which most kids won’t have a car anyway and will stick to campus activities, so what’s the big deal?</p>
<p>I’d rather save the money and then give them nice new cars upon graduating, personally.</p>
<p>We live in a suburb with zero public transportation. Literally zero. It’s virtually impossible for someone to get around without a car. A car really is a necessity here, not a luxury. Most kids either buy their own car, parents buy one or parents buy one for ‘the kids’ (if there are multiple kids in the family) or rarely, they share the family car.</p>
<p>My point is it’s not uncommon for kids to be driving their own car since they were 15. That kind of puts in a different light for some parents. After your child has been driving accident/ticket free since they were 15, it’s a little harder to justify suddenly taking it away for the next 4 years. I’m not saying people can’t or don’t do it but it does put a different spin on things. My son has shown himself to be very responsible with his car over the last 3 1/2 years. Do we reset the trust dial to zero at this point? He’s had plenty of opportunity to drink and drive over the last few years and yet, he has chosen not to (I’m up every time he comes into the house and have a conversation with him). Can’t say that for all his friends. Personally, I would feel better if I knew son was driving himself around rather than relying on others who may or may not be good drivers or have been drinking Let’s face - once they are at college, we have no idea what they are doing. True, you are reducing your own personal liability (a very good thing) by not providing a car but you aren’t necessarily making your child any safer (unless, of course, you forbid them to ride with anyone else).</p>
<p>It really depends on the campus - some campuses really don’t require a car, some do.</p>
<p>BTW - I’m not trying to persuade anyone that their position is wrong - only that some people see it from different angle. Haven’t quite decided what we are going to do but the norm with my son’s friends is to take a car to college unless it’s in a very urban area or very far from home.</p>