<p>No, I get it. But at some point I do think kids as well as adults need to learn how not to sweat the small stuff because it’s part of life. We all have stories from middle school mean girls.</p>
<p>Real bullying is another matter.</p>
<p>^ but middle school mean girls is real bullying. It should not be tolerated at all…I realize easier said than done. These girls need to be counseled on how their actions are affecting others. They are obviously not learning compassion at home so other adults need to step up to the plate. OP’s daughter does not need to deal with their bad behavior just because that is the way it has always been. Until we demand these girls behave better, the bullying will continue.</p>
<p>Do your kids fight? Because mine do. They shouldn’t, but they do and I cannot teach then to never fight again. Depends how serious this is obviously but a zero tolerance policy against eye-rolling and BFF’s in 7th grade seems unlikely to be enforceable.</p>
<p>I am with Flossy, here. The OP didn’t say her daughter was being bullied. She said she is just sensitive and is affected by things that aren’t even being said to her or about her. I think that is a much different scenario. A kid that can’t cope in any situation that isn’t everybody holding hands and singing kumbaya had a serious problem that needs a solution beyond just avoidance, that is different from a kid who is upset because she is being bullied.</p>
<p>I have a suspicion OP’s D may actually be getting bullied and OP doesn’t quite know the whole story, which is why I said OP needed to get to the bottom of it before she could decide how to handle it. If OP’s D is being severely bullied, that is a situation that requires intervention-- I don’t believe in letting a child be subjected to cruelty and abuse to “toughen them up.” But we have no idea yet if that is what is happening. All we know is that OP’s D gets upset when the world is not all sunshine and rainbows-- and that there was ONE incident of bullying that needs to be looked into further by OP so she can decide what action is appropriate.</p>
<p>The bus incident really strikes a nerve with me. My bus experience in middle school was miserable, by the time the bus got to my stop we had to sit three to a seat to fit and nobody would ever move for me to sit, and people-- including the bus driver-- would yell at me to sit down but nobody would move so I could. It got better early high school when I could sit with older friends that protected me, and then get rides from them in their cars when they were old enough, but then they did sports or graduated and one way or another I got stuck on the bus again without protectors. I eventually refused to go to school and threatened to hurt myself if my mother wouldn’t drive me, which she did my last year of school, but then she yelled at me on the ride to school every day. The thought still makes me sick. If the bus incident wasn’t an isolated incident I don’t blame OP’s D for wanting to move schools. I could not be more sympathetic, and I do suspect there is much more to OP’s D’s school life than her mother knows. But we can’t assume that until she has the chance to actually assess the situation. I don’t think the information she has right now, as it has been told to us, is enough to make the decision to put her in virtual school.</p>
<p>Ema–OP may NEVER know the extent of bullying of her D. The fact that her kid wants to drop out of school/switch/be home schooled says A LOT. She is willing to give up the friends she has in order to stay home. That isn’t normal.
Most kids with “minor bullying” (only if you aren’t the recipient) consider it a torment that will hopefully go away by end of the school year (and they still remember it forever–and no, I don’t think it ever made anyone a stronger or better person).</p>
<p>Good post, Ema.</p>
<p>Whatever is going on and whatever OP decides to do, I think she really does need to make every attempt to get to the bottom of this. This isn’t just to decide whether or not to pull her daughter from school, but to know what her daughter is dealing with emotionally. If she is being severely bullied - which sounds like the most likely scenario -she’s going to need help rebuilding self-esteem and developing other, more potentially positive social outlets. But there may be other things going on as well. Maybe she is so embarrassed by her acne that she doesn’t want to be around people, even though she hasn’t been horribly bullied for it. Maybe she is developing some sort of social anxiety problem. Maybe - and I sincerely hope this isn’t the case - she is afraid of an individual who has hurt or assaulted her, or is afraid to be in the place where something traumatic happened. The point is, when a twelve year old decides something this drastic, it is well worth looking into.</p>
<p>I might suggest voicing some of your concerns honestly with your daughter and then asking her more specific questions than “are you being bullied?”:</p>
<p>“You told me John said something nasty to you on the bus. Do these kinds of things happen often? Do they only happen on the bus, or at other times, too? Are there a lot of people calling you names, or just a few? What do your friends do when people call you names in front of them? Who do you eat lunch with? If other kids aren’t mean to you, who are they being mean to? What kinds of things do they say?”</p>
<p>I would also ask practical questions: “Do you think you’ll want to go back to a regular school eventually, or is this it? If you do want to go back to a regular school (or, frankly, even college), what do you think you would do if people weren’t always kind there? If you aren’t at school, what other kinds of things might you do to stay in touch with other kids your age?”</p>
<p>The answers to these questions might help to clarify things. If they don’t, I think consulting a therapist or psychologist is appropriate. I think you could explain that to your daughter that while you trust and respect her, you are still responsible for doing what is best for her, and before you decide what that is, you want to run it by an expert who may understand the potential consequences better than either you or your daughter.</p>
<p>Let’s not forget the 12-year old decided she wanted to quit school this after being given that option during a stressful period in 6th grade. I agree the mom needs to know more but from what she posted it didn’t sound anywhere near that severe. She has friends and is doing well in school. If only the popular kids stayed in school the classrooms would be 10 people tops.</p>
<p>I had typed out a long response and lost it. I want to again thank you for all your insights and advice. I have spoken to the school counselor, who was compassionate and understanding, but because my DD hadn’t come to her (or anyone) wasn’t particularly aware of the finer points. One of my child’s teachers, who I also consider a friend, remains surprised that she is so unhappy because she seems happy at school and has nice, sweet friends. She did say, not in so many words, that one child is a strange fit for my daughter. </p>
<p>This girl, who considers my child a friend, had called her ugly a few months ago and my DD stood up for herself a few days later, telling her that she had hurt her feelings. The girl cried and of course said she didn’t mean too. Since then, I have learned that she has picked and picked. One of my DD’s friend’s mom called me yesterday to say that her daughter shared with her that this girl is really being mean to my DD and probably stirring the pot with a few other girls. I think her friends want to protect her but are just unsure what to do, and as pointed out upstream in this conversation, reluctant to have this girl turn her wrath on them.</p>
<p>More than just this one girl, my DD is clearly exhausted. Being so sensitive is hard, especially in middle school and if someone is being mean, it is just downright unbearable I think. I am not particularly thin skinned as I have chosen a profession that doesn’t allow for that characteristic. However, my heart breaks for my DD.</p>
<p>So, I think she is being bullied by this girl. I am not sure my DD does. She just thinks this girl and others are mean. She is tired of feeling different. Her skin issues are complex and far more difficult than just run of the mill acne. We have launched a new, more aggressive treatment and are seeing some results but this will be a long road. She does has self esteem issues related to appearance. </p>
<p>I know that some teenage angst is normal. The question is, as gouf pointed out, is when does it cease being normal and cry out for a solution. </p>
<p>So I continue to struggle with the message it sends to her to pull her out mid year and do virtual school vs the message it sends to leave her where she is clearly so unhappy.</p>
<p>Apprentice prof, thanks so much for the practical approach to speaking with her. I have asked some of those questions as conversations starters and am gently probing. We are monitoring her phone and emails because we worry about cyber bullying and have had multiple conversations about that issue with her.</p>
<p>Oh, I am so sorry. It is good to find out what is really going on, even when it hurts you to know your child is a target at school.</p>
<p>I encourage you to pull her out of school between semesters. This will send a message to your DD, that she is the most important thing to you. Education, grades, etc. they are important, but in 10 years these middle school years will mean nothing in relation to real life.</p>
<p>Being able to love yourself, like yourself, and believe you are of value as God made you are of utmost importance. Everything else can fall into place over time.</p>
<p>Can you fight this at school? Maybe. Will it be painful and drawn out? Yes. </p>
<p>Choose to save your daughter, show her you believe in her, that you trust her cries for help. If you don’t help her now, how do you know she will come to you with other problems in the future?</p>
<p>I understand this is such a complex issue, and we are all making sweeping generalizations and comments. Read the comments, then trust your motherly instincts. Trust your gut. You know what is best for your child.</p>
<p>Best of luck to you!</p>
<p>If you pull your daughter out of a school where she is academically successful, and where she has a group, no matter how small, of “sweet friends”, because of the recent actions of a single girl who is beginning to act in mean ways, you will be teaching a few lessons that I don’t think you really want to teach:</p>
<p>Your daughter will be giving a single slightly mean girl the power to determine where she will be going to school.</p>
<p>Your daughter will be allowing some feelings of discomfort with one girl to separate her from other supportive friends. </p>
<p>Your daughter will be making a big decision based on fear and avoidance rather than from empowerment and moving forward.</p>
<p>If I was the OP, I would enroll my daughter (and if possible talk to the parents of one or two of her sweet friends to also enroll) in a martial arts program.</p>
<p>OP, kudos to you for working to get to the bottom of the problem.</p>
<p>I agree 100% with everything eastcoascrazy says except the martial arts part. It would be good to enroll her in something that gives her self-confidence, but it doesn’t need to be martial arts. She’s not being physically attacked so she doesn’t need to physically defend herself. But whether its martial arts or music or drama or dance or swim lessons, the best defense against “mean” people is self-confidence.</p>
<p>Your daughter is the object of her own life, not the subject of someone else’s life. Don’t let her give this nasty girl the power to decide where she goes to school. Your daughter should not think of herself as a victim - it becomes a mindset that will hold her back in many areas throughout her life.</p>
<p>So true! And, exactly what I was trying to say when it somehow got twisted into a pro-bullying position. Wrong. This sounds more like a self esteem issue than anything else at this point. Maybe, quitting school and working on that makes sense, but it sounds a little drastic. Parents overreacting will cause kids to overreact, too.</p>
<p>Actually, it DOES sound like bullying, and a girl who is already sensitive and suffering from self-esteem from a physical issue is reacting pretty much the way I would expect one to. And I really don’t think the only solution is to help her tough it out. I don’t. Even WITH some outlet where she can excel and have friends outside of school, there is no guarantee that she won’t STILL have problems at school.</p>
<p>My youngest child was bullied in upper elementary school. She is outgoing and had plenty of outlets outside of school, lots of friends too. But even with the administration on top of things, it wasn’t a good atmosphere and not one we wanted her to have to navigate for the next 7 years of school. So we changed schools when the year ended.</p>
<p>Honestly, I don’t care if the bullies feel they “won” or the parents of these bullies (who backed their kids) feel WE were the jerks. What matters is that our D has excelled where she is now, not just academically but socially because she is accepted and HAPPY. </p>
<p>It’s funny-there was a poster on this board complaining about her toxic workplace and many people suggested she get a new job, not that she tough it out. Why is it different for a sensitive middle schooler? If there are other options here, I think it’s perfectly fine to explore them. I have a good friend who nearly lost her "sensitive"college freshman because she insisted the girl “tough it out”. Luckily they got to her in time after the suicide attempt and she is home now and doing well. While we all need coping skills, we DON’T need to be on the reviving end of taunts to be successful in life.</p>
<p>^^^
pressing the like button–nicely put sseamom.</p>
<p>Do students’ schedules at this middle school change from the fall semester to the spring? And if they do, could the guidance department set up schedules that keep your daughter and the other girl with whom she is having difficulties as far apart as possible?</p>
<p>That might be all that’s needed. It gets the OP’s daughter out of the toxic environment without requiring massive lifestyle changes that the OP and her daughter might regret. (Virtual school might be extremely lonely, and virtual school with parental supervision might create tensions that don’t exist now in the family.)</p>
<p>I couldn’t agree more with Sseamom! An adult would not be expected to put up with this environment, so why should a child spend years and years suffering like this?</p>
<p>Do adults really quit jobs because of one unpleasant co-worker? Maybe they do. No-one is advocating years and years of suffering.</p>
<p>Flossy-middle school + HS = years, and if nothing much changes = years of suffering. TRUST me on this, not all bullies get their comeuppance and even when admin gets involved, not all mean kids change. And some even have parents defending and egging them on. They grow up to be the kind of people who make one’s job a living hell.</p>
<p>As for OP, SOMETHING has to change for her D. There are several options, but I don’t think leaving for a calmer situation would necessarily be a bad one. We’re only sorry we left our D where she was for as long as we did.</p>
<p>HS was significantly different for my D., but she went to a different school, of course. Her middle school class had 4 kids (yes, FOUR). I believe that immaturity of 2 boys in her middle school class caused all the problems. None of it was in HS, she was a very happy kid there, some of her best times, still keeping in touch with many from different classes, down to 2 years younger.
I agree that escaping is a good strategy, keeping away was my advice to my D. all way to the point when she could not avoid it. And absolutely nothing she could do but build her personal psychological protective shield. In her 20s she realized that it was happenning because she just stayed away from some type of people all her life after middle school and she definitely was not taking all the negativity in a correct way. She took it too personally, while they just have to realize that it is a reflection on the bully and not on the person who is being harassed. Bully is lacking skills and most time no outsider can change it. Eventually bully will pay for it, it is inevitable. Bully will be a looser, but the harassed one could come out a winner if the experience is taking as a learning road block.</p>
<p>Even if we could find the perfect little cotton box where our kids could go to school and learn and be happy and never have anyone treat them poorly… would we have helped them to grow up and be strong, independent, resilient people? I’m not justifying mean behavior or bullying - it’s always wrong and should be handled by adults as such - but learning to deal with adversity (including social adversity) is a vital skill for kids to acquire. </p>
<p>I’m not talking about a group ganging up to torture one or two kids for weeks and months on end, or physical abuse. Those kinds of situations require parental involvement, and moving the child if things don’t improve. But I AM talking about one girl who is saying mean things to another. Do we teach our kids that the proper response to someone who makes nasty comments about my complexion is to run away? What happens the next time, in hs or college or the workplace, when there’s an unpleasant/nasty/toxic person to deal with?</p>
<p>Adolescence isn’t easy for anyone. Making it easy for our kids isn’t the best way to help them grow up to be resilient, self-confident, happy people. Helping them to develop coping strategies, responses, and self-confidence is the way to help them grow into independent, well-balanced adults who can handle whatever crosses their path.</p>