When getting your kid to write reflectively is like pulling teeth (dark thoughts on a Sunday night)

We just did a dry run for a college application (in this case applying to a summer program with one very short essay) and folks – it was rough.

To begin with, S25 hates writing. He manages well enough at school with the paint-by-numbers approach taught in AP courses but doesn’t enjoy it and tends to put off writing assignments until the last minute – and then glower his way through them.

Writing a personal essay seems to send him into a new circle of hell. We sat down yesterday to brainstorm an outline for his essay about a summer he spent in France. Getting him to reflect on his experience and talk about it was already painful – he was impatient and sour for most of the time. But I asked a lot of leading questions and helped him pull together an outline. When it came time to write the actual essay, somehow the whole was less than the sum of the parts. It felt lifeless – uninspired – repetitive. The funny anecdotes he remembered didn’t make it into the essay, or did so in such abbreviated form as to be unrecognizable. The conclusions he drew were facile. It was impossible to read this and divine anything about my kid other than a vague sense of going through the motions.

I’m trying to get him to edit it and getting a lot of pushback. But people – if this program is in any way competitive, he’s not going to look very strong. And this is just a taste of what it will be like when he starts having to work on college essays in a couple of months.

So, my sense is that we have a multi-layered problem:
a) he generally doesn’t like communicating in writing – which is a fundamental life skill that he will need to master.
b) he doesn’t like revealing things about himself and seems deeply cynical about personal statements in general. But this means people don’t really get to know him.
And also (trying not to catastrophize here, which is why I’m dumping this into an online forum instead of having this conversation with my husband): I worry that
c) somehow he really isn’t very reflective. I don’t think he talks about feelings and experiences with his friends. He sure doesn’t like to reflect about things with us. We get little flashes here and there, doled out unpredictably. But if he’s not processing life experiences either orally or in writing – if I can only get him to do so by effectively interviewing him, and even then he groans and acts tortured – what does this mean for his ability to understand himself and grow?

Oh, and how the hell are we going to get through college admissions in one piece?

Disclaimers: no, he doesn’t have any kind of documented learning disability. He’s not on the spectrum (we just had an updated psych-educational evaluation). His verbal IQ scores are in fact really high across the board. He learned to read at age 3 and would sit with a stack of books for hours from a very early age. In fact he preferred reading to most other activities, at least until screens crept into his life. (Curse the screens.) He does have mild ADHD. But as a fellow ADHDer, I tend to process things verbally – in conversations with a friend, in writing, in talking to myself even. I don’t think I was an outstanding writer as a kid but I don’t ever remember being reluctant to write the way he is, or reluctant to process things.

He was similarly taciturn during our one attempt at therapy at a younger age and resents even the quarterly meetings with his psychiatrist to get his meds updated (because she asks him questions about himself.)

One unfortunate side effect of this reluctance to disclose/communicate with other people about his experiences: his teachers really don’t know him, and so getting meaningful recommendations from them is going to be a bit of an uphill battle.

Would love to know if anyone else’s kid has been in a similar place. I don’t think that this is as simple as hiring a writing tutor although it’s something I’m exploring. The problems feel so fundamental.

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I think a writing tutor will be good, because he in addition to college apps, he will likely have to do a lot of writing on college that may have different expectations than his high school requirements.

And maybe look at Canadian colleges? They don’t require essays (or at least didn’t when my son applied a few years ago). And I think you are in California? The cal states don’t either. There are likely some more —if you can avoid the common app.

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I saw from your other posts that your kid is looking at Liberal Arts Colleges. In all honesty, a LAC is the LAST place for a kid who really does not like writing. LACs are known for being extremely heavy on writing, with grading being based mostly on essays or tests with long answer formats.

My kid churned out reams of stuff, and had a few essays due almost every week for her entire undergrad. She doesn’t mind, and can churn out good work at an amazing rate. However she likes writing, so it didn’t bother her. However, you are saying that your kid hates writing. It’s not a huge issue overall - my wife loathes writing, and she is a CS professor and runs a couple of institutes as well. But if she needed to write a fifth of what our kid had to churn out as an undergrad, she would quit that job th enext day.

It’s not an ADHD thing - my kid was diagnosed with ADHD between sophomore year and Junior year, so she was doing this with untreated ADHD, while my wife is the farther thing from ADHD that is possible (you can imagine how she feels in this family). So treating and accommodating for ADHD will help, but it probably won’t make him like writing any more.

So I would recommend that your kid and you start rethinking his college choices. I cannot see how he will be happy at any LAC, unless he acquires a love, or at least a high tolerance, for writing.

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Yeah, I’m talking with a writing coach tomorrow–actually the mom of one of his best friends, which in some cases would be awkward but in this case I think might actually help because he’s so shy and feels comparatively comfortable around her. She’s a former AP English teacher and is great with teenagers.

Re: college selection, I’m hoping to minimize bureaucracy and put him in a setting where he can get to know his professors and get a fair amount of personal attention. He also has no idea (really, none) about what he wants to study. I did a bit of research into Canadian schools and got the sense that he’d need to be far more independent than he currently is for those to be places where he’d thrive.

I do also feel that allowing him to apply only to schools without any essays whatsoever is kicking the can down the road. If he can’t write an essay, how will he write the inevitable paper? Or a cover letter? Or a love note?

We just sat down together and hashed through a round of revisions and I learned through version history (thanks Google docs!) that his rough draft, while too long, was more colorful and interesting. I gave him some tips about varying sentence structure, using certain kinds of details (proper nouns, etc.) to create more of a visual in the reader’s mind, and with my very active encouragement he submitted something that was quite a bit better. And about halfway through the process I stopped worrying that his looks were going to kill me.

I do worry about the fear of disclosure or whatever it is.

I guess this will be part of his journey.

Yeah, it’s a conundrum. I think the small class sizes, opportunity to explore various fields, and personal attention that you get in liberal arts colleges would actually be great for him. But you’re right – it’s a lot of writing. :grimacing:

The application he was working on was for a summer engineering exploration at WPI. If he enjoys this program, that might shift us in the direction of schools like WPI, RPI, Rose Hulman, etc. (also fairly small and personalized, but not as writing-centric.)

For a kid that is this absolutely fundamentally averse to written expression, I think it’s completely fine to simply accept that. (If there were more wiggle room in his aversion, it seems more writing development, tutoring, etc. might be helpful, but in this case, no need to force feed the kid.) I would accept that he is who he is and go from there. Look at engineering schools where the writing requirements are lesser. Or research schools that offer STEM majors with very few writing distribution requirements. This doesn’t preclude LACs, but he’ll want to be thoughtful about finding schools where he could avoid writing heavy courses. This isn’t in any way unhealthy! People are different and come to the world with different skills, talents, and yes, aversions. He is perfect exactly the way he is. Now he just needs to find the colleges and programs that will match who he is. Regarding the college admissions essays, yes, it may be a challenge, but you can handle it just like you did for the summer camp essay: draft and redraft with adult support. It’s fine.

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I didn’t write a single essay from the age of 14 until I wrote my (math) PhD. Ironically nowadays I spend my life writing (albeit on technical subjects). That was fine in the UK system where you specialize early.

S23 is much like me, and absolutely hates writing essays. He does find his subject (astrophysics) interesting, and would prefer to just do that. So a huge part of college selection was picking places with the fewest GEs. LACs were out of the question when he realized GEs would be 50% of total courses. He ended up at the place with the fewest GEs (<15%) and is able to take them pass-fail if he wants. For the moment he’s just taking math, physics and astronomy for every course, every term.

I think your problem is not that your kid hates writing but that he doesn’t know what he wants to study. Has he ruled out majors that involve writing and it’s simply a matter of finding which STEM major to do? If so it seems like this summer should be focused on that decision (S23 went to an astronomy camp after junior year of HS and came back firmly decided on that as a major). Then find place that are strong in the major and don’t have many GEs.

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Small class sizes and personal attention are also possible at big universities too. Especially if accepted to honors colleges. And if he does well on the AP English exams, at some schools he could place out of those English gen eds. There will still be writing, even in engineering, but technical writing, which sounds like could be more in your child’s wheel house.

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You could have been describing my S24 exactly. I mean really 100% everything you described (attitude to writing, mild ADHD, being completely unsure he wanted to study at the end of his junior year).

He is technically a very good writer. He is very fun and says just the right things to amuse people or make they happy in person. He can write an amusing fictional piece (if typically somewhat absurd). But reflective writing is absolutely a no-go with him. Extremely painful for all of us when he has to do it. And he is SO cynical about it, absolutely hostile really.

We got through the Common App personal statement with many fights and tears and stress, much like you described your process for finalizing your son’s summer program essay. The final product was actually quite good, I thought it reflected his humor and his personality. But I honestly didn’t think we were ever going to get there.

The shorter essays with a more direct purpose were less painful, but together we decided he should apply to fewer schools that had multiple essays.

The whole process was made easier when he finally decided he wanted to pursue engineering. And his experience during his senior year has confirmed that that is the right decision for him. As the writing for his non-math and science classes has gotten more complex and, I would say subjective, he has decided that he prefers classes where he is creative with ideas & problem-solving, but doesn’t have to write as much.

I guess like someone else said I would encourage your son to think about this experience as he considers what kind of major he wants to pursue.

ETA: My son is going to attend UMass Amherst in the honors college. I originally felt like smaller schools would be better for him, but in the end the ability to change major to a wide variety of possibilities (along with cost & location) won out. I am hopeful that the Honors College will provide a smaller community & classes that will help him not get lost among the massive student population. :crossed_fingers:t3:

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My main reaction is that this is a young man of age 17 or so, and their brains are under construction. It may be that he turns out to be a great writer in a few years, who knows.

You mention a recent psych-educational evaluation. What was the reason for that? Did it show anything at all? Was this prompted by concern about the writing issue?
You also mention a psychiatrist: is that for the ADHD? I feel that we are missing some info.

I think he can apply wherever he wants to apply, but keep the number down. Visit schools and come up with a list of 4-6 schools. Even fewer can work, if they are well-vetted for his needs.

For engineering, Olin in Needham MA is a nice combination of small and rigorous, for project-based engineering. Babson is next door and offers classes in entrepreneurship.

I always say the best and maybe even the only reason to hire help with essays is to preserve the relationship between parent and kid. We have a free essay help service here on CC with some of us parents volunteering, so that is a resource too.

Our public school didn’t do much to teach kids to write. College will actually be helpful if occasionally painful. There is often a lot of help and support on campus for these kinds of challenges.

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But be aware that many Honors colleges impose additional liberal arts requirements, especially on STEM majors. So the trade-offs may not be worth it compared to the alternative of getting to do more upper level classes in your desired subject, which will usually be small anyway.

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I suggest that it might be helpful for your son to look through the many posts here in the essay forum. There is also a useful article called Hack the College Essay, which he can do a google search for. Maybe direct your son to that.

I’m going to gently suggest that this is a major part of the problem. As a professional tutor who works with many students on their essays, my general opinion is that parents truly need to stay out of the essay writing process in the early stages for sure, and certainly for the personal statement. You repeatedly refer to we, but this is his process. You are overthinking it and there is PLENTY of time for him to write his essay.

Here are some fairly universal truths about essay writing:

  1. Parents have pretty erroneous ideas of what they think a personal statement needs to say. They often try to persuade kids to write about things they don’t want to write about.
  2. Most students are uncomfortable trying to convey their personalities in 650 words.
  3. Most students feel there is nothing dramatic or noteworthy to say about themselves.
  4. Teachers can be very helpful if they have the time, but their goal isn’t necessarily to show the student how to write an essay that will be best for their college app.
  5. Most students now don’t have the best writing skills. Good writing has taken a back seat to so many other aspects of schooling (a separate topic, but regrettable.) If the parent wants to be helpful once the student has some kind of rough draft, this could be the time to review for grammar and punctuation, and/or enlist the help of a friend or relative who has some skill perhaps. I recommend someone other than the parent, if possible.
  6. Every student DOES have something interesting to say about themselves, but they often think they have to write something they think a college wants to hear, such as their experience working in a soup kitchen, or the time they won the race. Those can be great topics, but no better than writing about how much they love to sit in a hammock and watch the clouds go by.

If your child is comfortable asking for help from strangers, there is a free service right here where your child can get started and ask for help via the hive mind at CC. STUDENTS, Need Help w/ Your College Essays? Get Community Feedback Now

Meanwhile, I suggest you drop it for now. Let him finish the school year. There is no need for him to write the essay at this moment.

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People who are cynical about personal statements are my very favorite people.

In my opinion, a strong antipathy toward personal statements provides excellent proof of deep reflection. :wink:

And I don’t think disliking writing in high school (and especially not disliking writing personal statements for applications) is any sort of predictor about whether a student can thrive at an LAC.

This year the student I know who had the very best admission results (far beyond what anyone predicted) was a male student who freaked out so badly on the personal statement that his application had to be rescued by an essay coach (a PhD student) who ended up completely writing the personal statement for him, according to what his mother tells me. (Did I mention I am cynical about personal statements?)

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He had to write an essay to apply for a summer program.

Thanks for clarifying, as I didn’t see that. Regardless, my feeling is that this parent is overly involved in this endeavor. It seems there is a teacher friend who might be helpful, so I recommend asking that person for help.

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Does he hate all types of writing? Is he a STEM oriented kid? Does he need to go to a highly selective LAC? Would he be best off at your flagship state U, or even your local 4 yr state college? Does he have any ideas of career path yet?

He doesn’t need to write a soulful, kick-azz personal statement for most colleges, especially engineering schools. Either hand him off to a coach, if you can afford it, or yes, if the essay is the only thing standing between him and a great application, then brainstorm with him and then write the darn thing for him. Admissions committees have to realize that many, many kids, especially those who come from means, are not really writing their own essays - there is an entire industry built around writing these college essays for kids!

What you do not need is for this to be a source of conflict with your adolescent son.

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I second the recommendation for an essay coach. I am a professional editor, and even for my highly reflective (and also highly sensitive) child who loves to write, it was clear that he needed to develop his essay without me. I knew the process would be fraught if I were involved.

We found a teacher who does an online summer class over four weeks in July that includes group and individual sessions, with particular focus on developing the idea and getting a good draft done. She does no line-editing, just asks questions and provides feedback. It was fantastic, and I’m very excited to have her as a resource for my younger son, who like OP’s kid doesn’t like writing.

This is the only thing we spent outside money on (a few hundred dollars) for our kid’s college application process, and the ROI was huge, not just in terms of the essay produced but also in terms of preservation of family harmony. :slight_smile:

Good luck!

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This sounds like exactly what my S25 needs. Any chance you could send contact information for the person you used?

So you are very, VERY, much not alone.

Because my S24 did not get admitted to the very-most-selective colleges he applied to, we have had a few “post mortem” conversations, and he has apparently been doing the same thing with peers. And one thing he at least believes is that in retrospect, his essays were fine but were not necessarily up to the standards of the kids who did get admitted to those few colleges. Basically, his belief is he got admitted where his academics (including recommendations) were a slam dunk, and for the most part did not write his way into anywhere else.

I’m not 100% sure it is that simple, but it is somewhat plausible. He did in fact last minute almost every essay (despite my urging him to start way in advance). He ended up reusing essays with modifications, which is fine, but those were often made last minute too. I think he did in fact struggle consistently with getting out of “what do they want to hear?” mode, as opposed to really reflective expressions. He did not make nearly as much use of the free essay help at his HS as he could have (and I urged him to do that too). And so on.

And in fact, in what I thought was a really revealing comment, he also said something like that he simply wasn’t willing to do the sort of BS essays some of his peers had done. Again, I am not sure that is entirely fair, but I know what he means, there was a game he saw them playing that to him seemed dishonest and he just didn’t want to try to do the same.

Now the thing is, my kid is an excellent academic writer (particularly for his age), and I think has discovered more and more he actually enjoys academic writing. It may well be taking him in a completely different direction academically and career-wise than he would have thought a couple years ago. And so I had zero concerns about whether he would do well with academic writing at college like, say, Carleton (where he was admitted).

But reflective writing is not the same as academic writing, and while he did it well enough to get into some great colleges like Carleton, he might well be correct that he did not really play that game the way the very most selective colleges want it played.

And I agree with others above–if that is how it plays out, you can in fact just accept that as your kid’s reality. Like, yes, maybe some other kid would be willing and able to write their way into a couple more colleges, but I think that is not really something to worry about if your kid is writing good-enough essays that get them into great colleges anyway.

Of course if you have a kid who really WANTS to play that game, you can support them. I just personally did not see much benefit to any of my trying to push my kid into that mode, and in retrospect I think that I really should not even have tried as much as I did. It was his process, his preference, and it all worked out well.

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Is the topic he is writing about something that HE chose? Is it something he was passionate about? What is your son obsessed with? THAT is what he should write about.

Also, my experience has been, parents are not the best ones for helping with this task. Find someone who is not mom or dad to help him hone the essay. Kids don’t like to be taught by their parents (in my experience). Remember, to them, we are ‘so dumb’ and ‘don’t understand’ ‘don’t know anythingggg’ lol

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