When to backoff HYPMS and apply ED to other good colleges

Applying to College
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<p>It seems that this year lots of deserving students missed the boat at the lower Ivies (U. Penn, Columbia, Brown, Cornell) and equivalent good private schools like Duke, JHU, NW etc. by not applying ED.</p>

<p>The counslars have also suggested that in certain cases it has been seen that similar students had different results based on whether they applied early decision or not.</p>

<p>It is only applicable to Early decision where it is binding, this problem is not there with Early Action or SCEA.</p>

<p>So the question when one should decide to back off in the race for HYPMS.</p>

<ul>
<li>Is it when the UW GPA < 3.9 if a competitve public or private high school doesn’t rank.</li>
<li>Is it when the rank is above top 5% at a competitive public or private high school.</li>
<li>Is it when a special hook is missing. i.e a kiiling research, RSI, SHARP, or representing US in Olympiads, Intel semi finalists, Seimens Award</li>
</ul>

<p>In other words can a normal good student just back off and find a lower Ivy or Equivalent Private College and apply ED.</p>

<p>This is with the intention that the STUDENT and not the PARENT wants to attend those colleges, so please stay off the thread if you want to post why only these colleges.</p>

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<p>Maybe the student should apply ED to the school they actually want to go to, not the school with the highest rank in U.S. News.</p>

<p>If a student really wants to go to HYPSM, they should apply early there. If they don’t, they’ll always wonder what if. </p>

<p>Also, to imply that a student who wouldn’t get accepted at HYPSM would easily be accepted at Columbia, Penn, Brown, Duke etc. is ridiculous.</p>

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<p>JyankeesSS2: Why you have problem with anybody asking some genuine questions?</p>

<p>It has already been made clear that if you don’t like reading or responding to posts that involve US NEws top 20 Colleges (LETS Call it UN20) then stay off the thread.</p>

<p>Also you might not be interested in applying to colleges just they are in US News top 20 list but there are many who will just do that and won’t go wrong because in worst case they will still have a good education.</p>

<p>Also if my daughter wants to attend YALE then that doesn’t mean that she applies there without any consideration whether or not there is any chance of her acceptance. </p>

<p>The question is:

  • Does it make more sense to apply ED to an alternative college (U. Penn or Columbia) where she would like to go in case not at Yale; if there are more chances to get into it ED at U. Penn and Columbia; then to endup not getting accepted at any of these three colleges.</p>

<p>The questions is about a capable student who can get accepted into UN20 ED but couldn’t make it to UN20 regular admission.</p>

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<p>“Lower Ivy”…that cracks me up! And “deserving” according to whom? </p>

<p>If a student thinks he or she is going to be happy academically, socially, psychologically, financially, etc…, at any of these top-rated schools, then he or she should apply, period. However, it is important that the student (AND PARENTS, although I understand the intention of this thread) be realistic about their chances of admission to one of these schools. There are only a handful of research universities that are admitting 15% of their applicants or less (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Brown, Columbia), but each of these school offer their undergrads VERY different experiences and educational opportunities both in and out of the classroom. A student may be admitted to Harvard, but not to Brown. In at Princeton, but not at Columbia. In at Yale, but not at MIT. Only a handful of LACs admit fewer than 20% of their applicants (Amherst, Williams, Pomona, Claremont McKenna). Any of these schools are able to select whoever they want - usually the students who are going to add something to their communities while taking advantage of the opportunities that are available at these schools. If the student applying and the institution both have common interests, then the student has a good shot at being admitted…but it is still a crapshoot.</p>

<p>But seriously, one really DOES need to ask WHY is it so important to go to HYPSM? Are these school REALLY the best fit for the student? If one of them is, then apply ED or SCEA (if either is offered). If another school that is not HYPSM is the best fit for the student, they should consider applying ED there instead. If you only set your sights on the most selective schools in the country (HYPSM, Brown, Columbia, Amherst, Pomona, Williams) and only apply to these schools, chances are you’re going to get a lot of deny letters - regardless of how smart and possibly hooked you are…you’re just not going to be a fit at every school you apply to.</p>

<p>I’ve talked about this in other threads - ED vs. Regular Decision - but it is worth repeating…your “chances” in ED may or may not be better at a particular school depending on what particular school it is. At my institution, there really is nothing quantifiably or qualitatively different between the students we admit ED vs. Regular Decision. At other schools, there are differences. At some schools, the ED pools are full of hooked students - athletes and legacies, in particular - while at others there aren’t. It really depends on the school and how much they use ED to enroll their class. You’ve got to do the work yourself - ask the colleges you are considering how much of their class is enrolled through ED or EA, for example. You’ll notice big differences amongst the Ivies…</p>

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<p>The answer is the student should apply ED to another good college when that college is their first choice. And that’s the ONLY reason. Because JyankeesSS2 is right: the “what ifs” would be killer if HYPSM was their first choice and they never even gave it a shot.</p>

<p>That said, a student SHOULD apply ED to their first choice, if they have one, even if it’s not the highest ranked school. From personal experiance I know how hard it is to give up the chance to see if you could make it into that higher ranked school, but if you know where you want to be, you should apply ED. It just makes sense.</p>

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<p>“This is with the intention that the STUDENT and not the PARENT wants to attend those colleges, so please stay off the thread if you want to post why only these colleges.” – tired of getting bashed? I don’t blame you!</p>

<p>The question is a good one – it is a matter of strategy. If the student has identified 5-8 schools they would like to apply to and those schools include Ivies and other top schools, when is it a better strategy to do ED to one of the lower ivies (haven’t heard that before, but I assume you mean not Princeton, Harvard or Yale).</p>

<p>I can’t answer that – I am not even sure which lower ivies/top schools do ED, so you might want to check that out and post that info.</p>

<p>I do know that ED isn’t advised if you need FA or if you aren’t willing to commit 100% to going to that school. If you D has the dream school of Yale and she applies ED to another school, she is giving up that dream without even trying.</p>

<p>On the otherhand, if she is equally interested in Yale, Harvard, MIT, Wellesley and Northwestern – she could apply to one that offers ED that she thinks she has the best chance at getting in.</p>

<p>I keep telling my son that he isn’t allowed to pick a “dream school”. That he needs to be equally happy to attend any school on his list. His safety offers a great honors program, beautiful and funky campus and a BA/MA 5 year program in an area he is interested in studying – so that makes it attractive. </p>

<p>You might spend some time reading the individual threads on acceptances and the stats on the colleges forum – it gives you a general idea of the stats of kids both accepted and not accepted from schools.</p>

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<p>hsmomstef: The colleges I’m referring to are U.Penn and Columbia both offer ED the acceptance rate at both touches 45% for the ED.</p>

<p>So when to make a decision to give up hope for Yale to apply ED to these two colleges.</p>

<p>It was a very simple question I just tried to make it generic than to be so specific as to include the above three.</p>

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<p>You are very misinformed. The ED rate at Penn last year was roughly 29% and it was roughly 24% at Columbia.</p>

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<p>Adofficer: This is just plain rehtoric from the lower Ivies as there bound to be difference between the applicants admit during the ED than during the RD.</p>

<p>Here are the reasons for it:</p>

<ol>
<li>If there is no difference than why don’t they make it EA or SCEA.</li>
<li>The strategy is to capture the attention of students I’m trying to imply in this thread. These instittutions know that there are lot of very capable student who might not take risk of loosing their institute in order to try for the dream college.</li>
</ol>

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<p>JyankeesSS2: Last I checked for U Penn was 45% for ED.</p>

<p>But I might be wrong. Can you post the link?</p>

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<p>Penn <a href=“http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/applying/profile.php[/url]”>http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/applying/profile.php&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Columbia <a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/applications/stats.php[/url]”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/applications/stats.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>If you want to formulate a strategy for applying early and to “game” the system, it would be pragmatic to know how realistic your child’s chances are into the top schools. An unbiased third party–like a <em>highly qualified</em> guidance counselor or private college counselor–might help you.</p>

<p>From personal experience, I’ve found that it’s hard for students or their parents to judge themselves accurately. For instance, I would have applied ED to Brown (my 2nd choice where I would be extremely happy at) mostly because I loved it, and partly because it’s statistically less a risk than say, some SCEA schools. My gc convinced me that I had a shot at the other Ivies, and after RD, he was right. ED at some schools, like Penn, have noticably higher acceptance rates. OK, I know that the early pools have legacies and athletes and other hooked candidates, but Penn seems to really care about demonstrated interest, and its ED is very high.</p>

<p>Disclaimer: Like previous posters mentioned, the college admissions process is extremely random and acceptance is like a lottery. So, even if you do try to game the system, it obviously might not be successful. :slight_smile: Or you could get in, and wonder “What if?”</p>

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<p>Owned.</p>

<p>And my thoughts…ED isn’t some sort of strategic way to get into your school of choice. The higher percentage of acceptances is moderated by the fact ED doesn’t have as many applicants that don’t fit the profile of a potential admit; quite simply the pool is stronger. If you’re considering ED it should be because the school you’re applying to is your first choice, not to try and get into the highest ranked school possible.</p>

<p>There is no such thing as a lower Ivy. I was admitted to Princeton and rejected at Penn (Penn ED) and Columbia–every school is looking for a slightly different type of applicant.</p>

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<p>parent of ivy hope, are you “old but wise” in disguise? its time to stop posting until you’ve read alot more, because 90% of the posts you spew are filled with garbage facts and unparsimonius analysis.</p>

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<p>um why does somebody’s mom/dad have to do all this stuff for the kid? my parents never did anything like this and i got accepted to several “top 20”'s… sure i agree that it is a parents duty to help their kid in everyway they can…but at this point in life, the kid should be motivated/responsible enough to take on this task himself because he truly wants it. if not, then he doesnt really deserve to go to a “top20”</p>

<p>i also agree, there is no such thing as a lower ivy… have you seen penn’s yield rate? it is comparable to at least P and S</p>

<p>your kid should just early to the school he/she truly wants to go to. if he/she doesnt get in, then they should just apply to many more RD round and if your kid is qualified, im sure they will get in at least a few.</p>

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<p>slickhitter: if you follow columbia link provided by JyankeesSS2, you will find the following:</p>

<p>44.6% of the Columbia College class was admitted through Early Decision.</p>

<p>40.9% of the Columbia Engineering class was admitted through Early Decision.</p>

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<p>Also for U. Penn the numbers are</p>

<p>ED Applicants: 4120
Admit in Dec : 1181
Admit in April: 159
% Admit : 32.52%</p>

<p>RD Applicants:16363
Admit in April : 2277
% Admit : 13.91%</p>

<p>Look at the two rates they are drastically different. There have to be advantage for ED.</p>

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<p>ok regardless of “odds of getting in,” a student should apply early to the school he or she likes best. When to back off HYPMS? When a student likes Emory or Duke or WashU or GW better.</p>

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<p>ParentofIvyHope, 44.6% of the class was admitted through early decision means just that. 44.6% of the total class was admitted through ED. It isn’t the acceptance rate. The acceptance rate is the number accepted/number applied. That number is 24%.</p>

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<p>JyankeesSS2: I got that that is why I recomputed the U Penn Numbers. I’ll do the same for Columbia too. But it seems that there is real advantage to apply ED at these schools.</p>