30 years ago, I was trading, really gambling. for a living. I was doing pretty well so my wife said, “You should tell your mother what and how you are doing”.
I said I don’t want to do that. My mom is going to be negative and worry. I don’t want those vibes. That attitude won’t be helpful to me or my mother.
My wife was persistent and she is very bright so eventually I told my mother what I did.
30 years later, I still remember the exact words she said.
“You are going to lose all your money!”
My wife was wrong! I didn’t talk to my mom about my job for 30 years.
My kids want to act, I would be slightly worried but I would support my kids and be very positive. I would keep my worries away from the kids. If my kids wanted to join the military, now that is scary!
Plenty of computer professionals work as contractors and consultants, but they are usually experienced. Perhaps he can take a regular computing job at graduation and work at that for a few years, while doing performing arts as an “extracurricular” (just like how many people do sports and other activities outside of their jobs). He may then be in a better position to go into contracting and consulting on the computing side (both in terms of being experienced enough to get those kinds of jobs, and in having some built-up savings as a financial buffer) if he wants to increase his time available for performing arts.
"My wife was wrong! I didn’t talk to my mom about my job for 30 years.
My kids want to act, I would be slightly worried but I would support my kids and be very positive. I would keep my worries away from the kids. If my kids wanted to join the military, now that is scary"
Though I generally would say to listen to your wife, I suspect you know your mother better. Mothers do not want to worry. They say they want to know everything, but they can’t stand to hear the alarming things. We jump to the worst possible conclusion.
Yes, the military is scary (and we are both prior military, so we know exactly how scary it can be). I have insisted that if they join the military, it would have to be as an officer, and Air Force or Coast Guard only!
“Plenty of computer professionals work as contractors and consultants, but they are usually experienced. Perhaps he can take a regular computing job at graduation and work at that for a few years, while doing performing arts as an “extracurricular” (just like how many people do sports and other activities outside of their jobs). He may then be in a better position to go into contracting and consulting on the computing side (both in terms of being experienced enough to get those kinds of jobs, and in having some built-up savings as a financial buffer) if he wants to increase his time available for performing arts.”
That makes complete sense, however, the fire is in him right now. I think that unless he had a job with Google lined up, it would be hard to go that route, with many of his friends going into theatre right after graduation. And of course, far better to do something like this before having a family, however, it is also apparent to me that it would be better to have CS skills and a background first, and plenty of $$ saved up.
I have two related stories. My BIL went to one of the top colleges for theater and then did time in NYC as a “starving actor”. Although he’d grown up in a low-income family, his mother (dad had passed away) supported his decision. He did a lot of theater and the occasional small part here in Seattle for a time. It was local theater that gave him a great deal of experience in the field. Then he moved to Vancouver, BC, where he now makes a VERY comfortable living in live theater, commercials, TV and movies. Though he does mostly small parts now due to his work behind the scenes, chances are that many of you have seen him, or heard him if your kids watched any of the popular cartoons of the 80’s or 90’s. He had a few lean years, but there is a LOT of money in voice work and commercials. His wife also works in theater, in set design. Both have traveled the world and live well-neither are “A Listers”, but work steadily.
My ex wanted to major in music and become a professional musician. He was good enough even in HS to have been on an record as part of the back up, but his parents, both engineers, would not support his goal. They pushed him into engineering as well. He was good enough at it-he has worked for some of the most well-known companies and if you’ve ever used certain printers, made airline reservations or a certain operating system, you’ve benefited from his work. But his passion was and always will be music. He eventually began playing semi-professionally on the side, and that’s really where he’s happiest. He never forgave his parents for forcing him into a career he didn’t want, even though he could have, if he’d really wanted to, paid his own way through college back then.
One of my points is that not all actors are “starving”, but they might be if they think they’ll be A listers from the beginning. In other words, be realistic. A few words in a national commercial can be very lucrative, even if it doesn’t win you a Tony. The other point is that our kids are not us. Their values may be different, and a high-paying engineering job may just not be what a newly-minted adult wants out of life. It might not EVER be. I don’t believe that a kid has to work to “pay me back” for his/her education. My job has been to raise good people who are happy with THEIR lives. If they are happy, then so am I.
Fantastic that your son is thinking in a nonlinear fashion. A twist on your situation. My son was getting his Honors math degree and overreached for math grad schools. He cancelled graduation and did the 5th year to finish a second major in CS (he then was only one instead of two years ahead of his agemates) instead of applying to different math programs. Got a job at a major software developer despite weak programming skills then was recruited after a couple of years by a top company where he still is. We were/are disappointed he didn’t go to grad school.
Yup- curious where son will be when he’s 30. Glad someone else has that thought. Thought we (and he) would know by 25. CS is a field with many smart people and an advanced degree so far doesn’t seem necessary for son to be intellectually satisfied. We’ll see in the next several years.
Theatre isn’t just acting or NYC/LA. A friend’s relative, the son of two STEM profs, is working in that field in Chicago after some kind of theater major.
Son is teaching himself new programming languages that become useful to him. I can see your son keeping up with his abilities in CS even if he pursues another field now. Better he tries this now than to wonder years later if he could have succeeded. Also, if he does do CS it will be because he wants to and not because that is what his major was and he is stuck with it. I wonder how many of us would have changed careers instead of sticking with what our years of schooling trained us for if we could do life over.
One other thing to consider: does he naturally have frugal spending habits without having to try very hard to control spending? If so, he may be better able to handle uncertain or volatile work earnings in either performing arts or contract work in computing.
@busdriver11, i know your husband and you were in the military. Joining the military would stress me out. Dad’s can get stressed too. Watching a show like Parenthood can stress me out.
What if your son is one of the ones who make it? That is a possibility, right? Don’t forget. Your son may make it.
There are so many kids who graduate from college. They have too much student debt. They don’t have a passion. They are lost.
Your son doesn’t have these issues. Your son is already a winner!
“One of my points is that not all actors are “starving”, but they might be if they think they’ll be A listers from the beginning. In other words, be realistic. A few words in a national commercial can be very lucrative, even if it doesn’t win you a Tony. The other point is that our kids are not us. Their values may be different, and a high-paying engineering job may just not be what a newly-minted adult wants out of life. It might not EVER be. I don’t believe that a kid has to work to “pay me back” for his/her education. My job has been to raise good people who are happy with THEIR lives. If they are happy, then so am I.”
I think he’s pretty realistic. But I don’t think he’ll be interested in struggling for many years, as he does want to be able to provide for himself well. It’s good to know that there are many people who are making a good living, whether they are the A listers or not. Glad that your BIL and wife are doing well in their profession.
Those in my family who are in the business, have also done well. My great uncle was Robert E Lee, if you have ever heard of him, he co-wrote Inherit the Wind and Auntie Mame with his partner, and my great aunt did many voices on cartoons during her day. But it does seem like such a crapshoot, to actually be able to make a living in this business.
40 years ago DH took his EE degree on the road as a full time musician. He was “salaried” at $75/week, considerably less than engineering paid. His parents declared music “a wonderful hobby” in almost every conversation.
Within 18 months, we realized our opposite schedules and no free weekends were not working, though living on narrow budget wasn’t as hard as he had feared. He got his first “real job” and continued to play in whatever way made sense as he pursued his tech career. As an aside, a fellow band member went on to become the head of a huge music empire.
Hang in there; totally get the stress of this for parents, as we have one making it in a “long shot” career. Takes extra patience and tenacity on everyone’s part, making the progress all the more appreciated.
"What if your son is one of the ones who make it? That is a possibility, right? Don’t forget. Your son may make it.
There are so many kids who graduate from college. They have too much student debt. They don’t have a passion. They are lost.
Your son doesn’t have these issues. Your son is already a winner!"
I do believe in him. I think he has as much chance as anyone. However, most people don’t have much of a chance. He is lucky to have no debt (though little money). But I think there may be too much emphasis upon the passion thing. I don’t think most people really have a true passion. I used to have a passion, which turned into an interest, that turned into just a way to make an income. I guess that’s better than most options.
"Fantastic that your son is thinking in a nonlinear fashion. A twist on your situation. My son was getting his Honors math degree and overreached for math grad schools. He cancelled graduation and did the 5th year to finish a second major in CS (he then was only one instead of two years ahead of his agemates) instead of applying to different math programs. Got a job at a major software developer despite weak programming skills then was recruited after a couple of years by a top company where he still is. We were/are disappointed he didn’t go to grad school.
Yup- curious where son will be when he’s 30. Glad someone else has that thought. Thought we (and he) would know by 25. CS is a field with many smart people and an advanced degree so far doesn’t seem necessary for son to be intellectually satisfied. We’ll see in the next several years."
I had heard that it doesn’t even help you in the CS field, if you go to grad school. In fact, many of the top schools even recruit people and get them to quit college. So maybe your son will be more financially successful (and hopefully happier) than if he had gone to grad school.
“One other thing to consider: does he naturally have frugal spending habits without having to try very hard to control spending? If so, he may be better able to handle uncertain or volatile work earnings in either performing arts or contract work in computing.”
He can be pretty frugal when he’s spending his own money, as opposed to ours! However, he is pretty generous with other people, tipping, lending, and paying for others when they don’t have any.
" Hang in there; totally get the stress of this for parents, as we have one making it in a “long shot” career. Takes extra patience and tenacity on everyone’s part, making the progress all the more appreciated"
That’s great to hear that you have one making it in a long shot career! There is always hope.
I appreciate people’s words of advice. It sounds like many people are in the same situation, watching, waiting, wondering and hoping for their kids. Good luck to all of us!
I think I’ll go to sleep and think about this now.
As mom of a son who is majoring in CS and minoring in theater, and seems to like the latter quite a bit (if I have to be honest, perhaps a bit more than the CS…), I’m finding this thread very interesting! Particularly the comment about frugality, since I would not say that is one of DS’ s strong points. We shall see…
He has the gift of health insurance until he turns 26. There is no better time than now to chase his dream.
Grit your teeth, plaster on the fake smile and say “go get em.” 100% support on the outside. Better to be remembered as giving support rather than as the reason he didn’t take a chance.
I have an art kid chasing her dream. Somehow, she is surviving. She is poor. She is happy.
I worry everyday. it eats at me. It is hard to hide.
Kid is making a lot of money he doesn’t spend. Plus he will inherit the money we earned but don’t spend. frugal family. He seems happy with where and what he is doing. Our thing is valuing education. Hence the wish for advanced degrees.
That same family mentioned has another son with elite college credentials including a math PhD and had trouble finding academic jobs. Their theater kid was working while the more highly educated one kept job hunting.
btw- not all CS grads went to the same level schools or have the same abilities. Thank goodness son landed the better opportunities job (but it became less interesting et al after time) than the other one he had a lead on. Many CS grads will end up doing more mundane work than son has done.
And here we all once thought getting into college was the end of parental angst. We all need to relax and let our adult children live their lives as they see fit, not as our wishes for them. Getting older and wiser here (finally).
Both of our kids have chosen low paying, risky careers (D is getting PhD in History after BA in Musical Theater, S is getting BM in voice performance-opera). They have gone in with eyes open as our family has loads of friends who are professional performing artists and H is an academic. One thing that we have taught both kids (one more successfully than the other) is how to budget, how to save for major expenses, how to defer gratification, etc. We also help financially when we can. We know that neither will ever have a tremendously high paying career, although we’re kinda hoping they marry well. But we do know that each is following a passion, learning and growing continually, and contributing to society in a meaningful way. My children are happy, so I am happy.
Terrific thread! The mention of the military takes me back to the night I went and found my dad in a barrister’s pub in Boston. I had withdrawn from college and enlisted in the Marines during the Vietnam War. Every fellow student except one told me I was nuts. So I explained to my dad why I had made my sudden decision. Several lawyers within hearing distance heard his response to me:
“So you want to be a ditch digger for the rest of your life!”
Don’t be like my dad who didn’t wake up until four months later when he decided to rent a car and drive all the way down to Parris Island, South Carolina for my graduation. Your son needs your support and advice now but it is his decision to make. Pray that it’s a wise decision.
Among many questions - where would he pursue this? NYC is traditionally the theater market yet sometimes it’s easier to find small success ( non broadway ) in smaller markets, where it’s also easier to survive financially.
