Which of these wonderful LACs to choose? Advice desperately needed

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Some might be using the boarding school angle as a euphemism for full pays. But that’s not necessarily the case, as many boarding schools offer need based aid to plenty of students.

Anyway, in the interest of education, we can see the proportion of full pay students at a given school by going to the CDS. For Wake Forest, the most recent CDS is 2024-25. Section H2, row C shows that 1,201 undergrads (22%) have financial need, that’s out of total undergrads of 5,412 (H2A).

Said differently, that means 78% of WFU students have no financial need (although some who don’t qualify for need based aid might be receiving merit and/or athletic scholarships.)

To me, that’s an important number to understand because the number of affluent/full pay students can impact the vibe at a school.

To be clear, that’s not directly why I recommended above eliminating WFU from her list, it was more so due to the unforgiving social scene at WFU of for those outside of Greek Life. Again, IMO. YMMV. We could probably draw some connections there, but there’s really no need to.

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Money is a personal thing. I think one can spend how they want but if it causes strain is where I personally draw the line. My kids had $50k budgets. We are full pay. But that was my self imposed line. You may not have a line and if it won’t cause impact to your life, then no biggy. If it will, I’d be opposed but you still may not be.

You’ll see many LACs don’t publish detailed career stats. Yet some that also offer engineering and business do. I believe there’s good reason for this - those schools don’t have impressive stats, not matter how good the name.

So expenditure is up to you but would you expect an English major at one to necessarily do better than one at another?

I think this Kenyon page is enjoyable. Click on the major and see where some end up - salary excluded of course. Just click on a major, see the positions. Then hit back and see another major.

I will say - using my kids as an example - my engineer went to a solid, unranked flagship and interned with kids from arguably the top engineering program in the country. He got a return invite and job offer. They did not even get a return invite. My daughter chose a regional public over a school on your list. She’s in a selective public service job that I see on the Kenyon list I just shared. And she noted to me her orientation was mainly Ivy, Michigan, North Carolina types.

We all see ‘pedigree’ differently. I think it’s overhyped or rather $100k is a lot of $$ for a maybe. Fir my $100k, I’d want assurance but I’m not you.

If it were name recognition you seek, WFU stands alone in my opinion followed by W&M and then maybe Emory.

But, most importantly, as you’ll be on campus four years, day after day, finding that hopeful right fit is most important. But there’s definitely ways to cut that list - some of the characteristics like % athlete, % Greek, type of urban/suburban/rural noted above.

That is the hardest part - cutting the list.

Good luck.

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“Stands alone” is a strong statement! I think of Emory as more prestigious than WFU - if WFU has more name recognition, it’s probably just because it’s more athletically prominent, whereas Emory is D3. Likewise, I think of W&M as at least comparable to WFU in “pedigree.”

And Carleton, which consistently ranks among the top 10 liberal arts colleges, is reputationally in the same tier IMO; it’s just not as well-known by people who don’t know colleges, because it’s a small D3 school in Minnesota, not known by those who only know the schools that make sports headlines.

No shade toward Wake Forest, but OP’s daughter just doesn’t read like a WFU kid to me, and I don’t think they’d be giving up anything reputationally to choose one of the others.

That said, I may draw a stronger association between band geeks and W&M than the school actually deserves, because I have fond memories of attending summer band camp there as a middle schooler in the 70’s :sweat_smile:

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I didn’t say prestige….although people often tie the two together - but there’s lots of “prestigious” schools without name recognition - including to some extent Emory and most others on their list.

That’s why I went with name recognition - since the entire list is “prestigious”.

And yes, Wake is in the ACC and that’s likely where most of their name recognition comes from, no differently than many other schools.

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Disagree. It is the exact opposite: Emory, then William & Mary, then WFU. However, for federal government employment, William & Mary surpasses both Emory & WFU.

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For me name recognition is different: In no particular order…

Hamilton, Kenyon, Grinnell, Bard, Carleton, Davidson

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Guess you all don’t watch sports :). Much of the country does.

I laughed when my sister asked why my daughter applied to an HBCU (Emory).

But we are all different. Funny thing about Kenyon - I learned of it when Shaka Smart became big. Sports again. B4 that, I hadn’t heard of it.

Anyway, OP doesn’t have a bad name on the list. Different, but all great no matter how you slice it.

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Seems to be a difference of opinion here as usual. I would argue that across the US as a whole, Emory has the highest name recognition on that list. I know where I am (Bay
Area), a lot of people don’t know a number of those LACs (though Occidental is well known as its instate). Of course, name recognition doesn’t have to be a factor in choosing a college, but if a hiring manager is sitting with a list of the USNWR top 30…

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Hiring managers have their own “top” lists. If you’re hiring in aerospace/aviation, you’ve got ERAU. If you’re hiring chemical engineers, you’ve got Missouri S&T. If you’re hiring for the paper industry, you’ve got U Maine. If you run a charter school network looking for education disrupters, you’ve got Bank Street. If you lead a museum and are hiring entry level educators and curators you’ve got Williams. The CC obsession of whether Northeastern has moved up or down three slots… actual grownups who earn a living hiring new grads cannot afford to let a magazine determine their recruiting strategy.

The “published rankings” matter over a long period of time (let’s call it a decade or so). But if your paycheck depends on your skill at hiring new grads who are going to pass each level of the actuarial exams and advance in their profession, you really don’t care what a magazine is telling you about “top tier” schools. Companies measure all sorts of things. Retention- of the X number of new grads we hire, how many are still here after two years, how many have been promoted after three, etc. Mobility- how many of them were eligible for/agreed to transfer, and had developed the skills we needed to be useful in a different division, region, country? These metrics are mostly divorced from whatever the lists or listicles have to say.

And that explains UIUC in CS, explains why companies don’t care if a particular university is ABET accredited in a particular engineering discipline, etc. If every hire you’ve made in the last decade from Cal Tech has been a standout- performance, longevity, retention, value creation, etc.- it’s going to take a LOT to get you to give up hiring from Cal Tech!

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ABET accreditation
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This is a decision only you/your family can make. What “other people say” should be taken with a grain of salt, to a large degree. Yes, cost is a factor, and certainly $25K/year price difference is a large factor. But if you are able to offer to let your daughter choose what seems to be the best “fit” for her with the data and all the info/visit experience you can gather without it making a dent in your retirement plan, no loans or refi of mortgages, etc, then that is a spectacular gift that IMO is priceless. Especially when she is pursuing humanities at a LAC where she has the opportunity to explore many different areas, yes she may be able to do that in most/all of these schools, but “cost” (and certainly “ROA”) doesn’t need to be the driving force.

As I have mentioned on CC before, I recently went to my LAC’s significant class reunion. Hearing the wonderful directions and careers classmates’ lives have taken was incredible. There are so many unknowns in your d’s future. Just as many undergrads with humanities majors become extremely successful as those who pursue professional degrees/careers and then choose to become a stay-at-home parent (just examples, but you know what I mean).

Its fun to look at examples of undergrad degrees that have nothing to do with one’s ultimate career. Take for example Jonathan Karl (ABC White House/ Chief Washington correspondent). Wanna guess his major?? Sociology. Conan O’Brien? His was IIRC a double major in History and Literature. Michael Eisner (former Disney CEO)? Theater and English Lit. We could go on and on and on. Bottom line- IMO don’t ignore the cost factor, but if you are in the enviable position of not having to let it be the driving force, then your daughter will thank you many times over in the next years. As an N of 3, I appreciated this gift from my parents. and my kids likewise appreciated it from us. Again, that is priceless.

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We actually came to prefer visiting on a regular weekday. We had already done tours and info sessions so returned to campuses for the kids to attend classes, hang out around campus, talk to department heads or faculty, and as I said, in one case, do an overnight. But my kids applied to a small set of schools!

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Of course, but saying that national reputation isn’t important is misleading too. Fwiw my sister’s hiring manager definitely had Emory on the list - literally didn’t care that her undergrad degree had nothing to do with what she was hired for (premed switching into a Chinese major, she was hired as a financial analyst). She said she was told “Magna cum laude from Emory, we can teach you what you need to know”. (Obviously it’s different if you require particular skills like engineering)

This interests me because it seems to be contrary to CC wisdom that ABET is all that matters, but it’s not relevant to OP.

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ABET accreditation
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I would say Reed if you want west coast!

We are going to visit Reed on our spring break. Sounds like a ton of reading and writing. Campus looks beautiful!

I would also look strongly at ones you can drive to
Like ease of travel home for school holidays
Unless you don’t mind airplane travel or long drives
I’m thinking for our family to look for something with a 2-12 hour drive from home.

Do you want urban/rural/or suburban setting?

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A few very, very, very top schools don’t bother with it. (Stanford and Cal Tech for some of their programs, don’t bother) I think that is what they meant. It clearly doesn’t matter for them…

This is true by and large for most people I know, except for people who majored in CS and engineering, and not even always for them.. I know engineers who are bankers and Spanish majors who are Surgeons and anthropology majors who work at a FAANG as UX researchers (which is quasi related, I suppose, but not expected by CC for most part). Geography as lawyers…Area Studies (Asian) as Ministers, etc.

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This post expands a bit on the comments on Hamilton posted earlier:

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Thank you – I think we needed for someone to give us permission to consider taking Kenyon off the list. Of course we’ll have a long talk with our daughter about this – when she gets back from climbing, which she’s doing right now, ha.

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However, U.S. News does not provide a general ranking with which to determine its top 30 colleges and universities.

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Replied in a new thread so as not to clutter this thread based on a student interested in humanities majors:

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But there’s a big difference between rank and name recognition - which is what I was mentioning.

If Bouldering was a criteria, too bad UT Chattanooga didn’t make the list :slight_smile:

You can research more - but Carleton is on this list. I’d assume for “outdoors’“ adventure but looks like they have a huge indoor gym. The source is USA Climbing. Maybe you can learn more.

I think it’s the only one.

Top Colleges for Rock Climbing and Outdoor Adventure

Rock Climbing at Carleton

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You have permission to take any off the list you need to for whatever reason suits you because you can only choose one. That’s it.

That’s why you can use, at your discretion, things like budget, city availability (not at Kenyon but yes at F&M …or you might not want city avail), size, is there a significant music overlap (Bard)…..are there some majors unique that look interesting. Example - W&L is part of the Shepherd Program on poverty studies. Is it distance to home or an airport, etc. Some choose base on aesthetics or dorm makeup (my kid chose because he got his own room and shared bathroom with one). Whatever it is that tickles her fancy - any you can remove makes it easier later.

You have to cut down somehow.

I suggest as you visit - immediately after getting in the car - or before - video her thoughts - what she loved, didn’t love, etc. Why? After a while schools will blend and a few weeks later she’ll say - about the same or I don’t remember, etc.

You can also - having visited several, do head to heads - ok, Wake vs. W&M - who would you choose. Or Wake vs. Davidson, etc.

It’s an exciting time - and also short lived as it’s over in 40 days.

The good news is - she might have a wonderful experience at many - so there may be no wrong answer.

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