Exactly!! My engineer s’s started in engineering related fields but both are now program managers. People pivot in all fields. @TheSiliconWarrior your DD will go far with good writing skills.
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For climbing, Bard’s proximity to the Gunks can’t be beat.
Also going to add that it could be a good exercise to go through the course catalogs, any general requirements, then the requirements for the path she wishes to take now, factoring in things like study abroad, to map out how the academics will play out at each over 4 years.
There may be some that seem markedly better or worse. This won’t help on the “fit” but it it could save you spending time on a school that isn’t quite as exciting academically.
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Here is an attempt to measure what they call visibility in an empirical way. You can filter just by the US if you like:
One thing that is quickly apparent is that people who simply assume the US News rankings have a lot of impact in this area might in fact be mistaken. Other surveys I have seen confirm even a lot of college students are not super familiar with the US News rankings, let alone the general public.
I think it also at least should be clear that using this sort of thing as an input into any personal ranking of undergrad programs is a rather dubious proposition.
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Does this student’s interest extend to outdoor climbing?
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I love this.
I believe Hamilton and Emory, and perhaps some others, have yet to release RD decisions. Further information from the OP as these results arrive with help contributors target their responses appropriately.
Same, I think that is very good advice. I tried to keep on a poker face, and then at the end of a visit I would ask my S24 the question I learned here . . . Same, Up, or Down, and then ask him to elaborate. So it was always his reaction we discussed, not mine.
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For the curious, Emory may, by a small margin, represent the hardest school to get into from this group at 35th nationally by Student Selectivity in this analysis, followed by Hamilton, at 39th:
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I thought William & Mary when I read this list but for no good reason — just the vibe I have gotten over the years reading about it on CC. I’ve not been there.
D22 is an English & Creative Writing major and has bounced around a bit. One of her writing friends went to Kenyon for a year and found the small size really hard. She ended up transferring out to a giant sized school. She was unable to visit before going to Kenyon because she was the COVID cohort or she might’ve made a different call. I know there have been some big Kenyon cheerleaders on CC so it might work out for you daughter but it is pretty remote so that plus the lack of climbing wall might be something to consider. It is generally regarded as a great school for creative writing.
I agree with most people’s takes here on Wake Forest but weirdly enough the people who I know who went there do not fall into the stereotypes at all. One is an author of both kids’ and adult fiction and one is a theater teacher. Might be that your creative nerdy kid could find her place there. Does she want to do marching and pep band? That’s another thing to consider. A school like Wake would offer more opportunities there. Some of the little schools on your list might not have much there. In addition to the climbing wall consideration you might ask her what she sees doing with music/band. I know a lot of kids who have really found their people in marching band/pep band and with a bigger sports school you get to do a lot of traveling with the teams if that is appealing.
I’ll put a plug in for visiting Davidson. I’m married to an alum and we have a core group of friends who are alums and they are all fantastic people. Some are former fraternity members but none are fratty. They are punk rock professors, teachers, photographers, engineers, museum workers, work in publishing, etc. One sent their kid there and he studied international relations or something like that believe.
Take time to really enjoy the visits. From 4 years away I really look fondly back at taking those trips with D22. It all went by so fast!!
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I’m not going to stalk you and pounce on every take you have with which I disagree, but I will say here, again, that guessing based on what you suspect to be the case does not make for good advice, and this is at the end of the day, advice. Sometimes it’s just better to say, “I don’t know.” And here, I don’t think you have an accurate idea of how well many of these schools, even the ones w/o engineering and business, place. I just don’t think you have a sense for the career options available to a kid graduating from Davidson or Hamilton with a degree in economics, or math, for example. And that’s fine.
I also think you might be overestimating the business degree as an employment punch ticket but that’s a discussion for another thread.
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Next time, please publish the entirety of what i said - and how it related to what OP asked about (is spending $100K worth it - you greatly altered the entirety of my message.
In the end, schools with competitive stats publish. Some LACs were publishing and removed. Your mileage will vary. Some still report success rates sans salaries and yes many don’t measure success in life by salary but many do and they don’t share.
Most schools share positive stories when they have them. They sell the story they have - it’s a data world and everyone knows it. Some simply don’t have the data they want shared. So they create another story. You think otherwise. That’s your right.
Since Grinnell is on the list, here’s one for them. I personally don’t find it helpful because while they share jobs obtained, they don’t align them to majors and of course provide no salary data but perhaps OP will find it helpful.
Not sure what this even means.
Your reliance on ONE datapoint- what graduates are doing a year (or six months or three months or whatever the timeframe) ignores the reality that this is not how the labor market for educated professionals works in this country.
An orthopedic surgeon hits the high six/low seven figure earnings mark 15 or so years after graduating from college. And stay there for another 30 years. But he or she will show up (or not show up, according to you, because the U is ashamed of the story they have to tell) as a 30K lab assistant the year out of graduation prior to applying to medical school. The poor bio major who wasn’t even shrewd enough to major in business.
The head of communications at a hedge fund (earning even MORE than the orthopedic surgeon) will likely have a first job after graduation working on capitol hill as a comm’s or legislative assistant. So earning 40K, in a job which is pretty hard to get, depending on which Senate office or which Congressional committee. This is where English majors and history majors and comparative literature majors and poli sci majors end up. It will take ten years for that person to develop the Rolodex and credentials to get hired at the hedge fund- and then another five to eight years to break into the mega-earner category. But there they are. Out-earning the engineers in fact, by a very large multiple. And staying there. There’s a reason why the top firms have such a young employee base. It’s because the middle aged ones cash out and are teaching scuba diving, never having to work again.
You love data. But the “here’s where our graduates end up in their first year” is not the story you think it tells.
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Not the place to debate.
Most look at the role their kids have out of school. That’s what they send them to college for.
Obviously someone on the med school track is different - but most would assume their kid making $75K in a rotational is doing better than someone making $45K in insurance claims or working as a grocery store manager.
All are good jobs and I don’t know who will excel the most long term - but this is a reality that many who went to LACs don’t want to acknowledge.
Careers are long and I know that more than anyone. My first job was $4.25 at 16 hours a week as a radio station board operator.
But data is published for a reason. it’s advertising and parents want to see it. It often, not always, ties to the rankings people fawn over, etc.
Anyway, I was challenged again but we can all agree to disagree and parents/prospective students can use data schools publish as they desire.
No one wants to trust the data - yet many schools go to great lengths to acquire it. Why is that?
Advertising - you see it on billboards, in ads, at airport digital displays and more.
This is my reality.
OP can use or not as they deem fit.
People think differently - let’s acknowledge and move on.
OP can know it’s out there- I provided the Kenyon after first destination so they can see jobs by major - and Grinnell put it out in a different way. I’m here to directly help OP - to see what types of roles kids from schools they are looking at are achieving.
I’m going to assume we can move on from first destination survey discussions which have been argued to death in other threads.
This is not the parent forum or cafe. All responses need to be addressed to the OP to answer their question.
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OP: I would not assume as accurate the placement issues that the other poster posits here as fact. If you’d like to discuss the matter, you can indicate that here and then I assume it will be a fair game discussion for the thread.
I’ve got nothing to add to this thread other than to be another cheerleader for William & Mary. I’m an alum and it was a really wonderful place for me and everything I’ve read in the years since indicates that things are only going upward. It has a strong alumni network, at least in the mid-Atlantic region (I haven’t lived anywhere else so no idea about elsewhere) and I think it prepares students well for a wide variety of next steps. From your description of your child, I think they would enjoy W&M. I hope you are able to get there for a visit! 
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Great choices. I’d recommend Whitman and Reed. One is outdoorsy, the other is a PhD factory.
My brother and sister in law went to Bard and loved it, they are huge D&D nerds. One works in publishing now and the other is a blacksmith. I went to Reed and while it has many great qualities (I had many nice, nerdy friends, the campus is beautiful, Portland is great), I ended up transferring because there were not enough classes in my major, I did not like the intense drug culture, and I was a bit put off by how pretentious some students in my classes were. However, I am still friends with people from Reed and always visit the campus when I’m in Portland.
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@TheSiliconWarrior I’m curious about which schools your daughter ended up visiting, how those visits went, and if she’s made a decision on where to go in the fall? Apologies if you already posted this somewhere!
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