<p>Deciding between-
Indiana Jacobs-may be too big for this kid-have not heard about merit yet. It is a great school but we are all thinking a smaller environment might be beter for undergrad. for this particular kid. And he is thinking that too but it is such a good school we are confused. And affordable.
Lawrence-$18,000 a year merit but very far from home and not sure department or school is big enough to provide enough opportunity??? Nice environment at school. Smart kids. Don’t know that much about teachers although he had an instrumental lesson and met with some of them.
Ithaca College-close to home-not a bad thing is the kid’s view. We know and like possible teachers well and are very impressed with them. Very good orchestra and wonderful conductor. Expensive. Don’t exactly know whole picture about merit yet. S is very comfortable with this school as he had spent a lot of time there.
Is it worth the money if we don’t get any or a lot of merit? Can you get into good grad school if you go to IC for comp? We know some of their students hav gone on to good grad. schools and have done well but then I start wondering about Jacobs again.
Thanks. I am espcially interested to know what comp. parents think of these 3.</p>
<p>That does seem like a hard choice - all three schools are fine choices. You know, he has a month to think about this - there’s no hurry to decide overnight. Has he visited Lawrence and Indiana already? Would it help to go back? Has he looked at the specifics of the curriculum - what he would actually be doing each hour of the day that first year, at least? Does he know who he’d be studying with either for cello or composition at Indiana - or would he find out in the fall?</p>
<p>I wouldn’t worry about grad school at this point. If he is in a situation where he’s both nurtured, and pushed to expand, he should have a good portfolio in hand for applications - as for whether or not his comp professor will influence the admission decision at that point - who knows? And maybe he won’t even go to grad school, or not right away. No idea about my own kid, and that decision is a bit closer for him.</p>
<p>What will the performance opportunities be like at the different choices - both on cello and for his compositions. Will he have to compete with grad students to get his pieces played, or does he have guaranteed performances? What kind of student run ensembles are available to him if he wants to play/have his music played outside the confines of the standard concerts? Is there institutional support for summer programs or travel for performances/competitions?</p>
<p>Do the academics matter? If so, compare the course offerings outside of music available to him - as well as look at how many non-music courses he could take.</p>
<p>What about Study Abroad? Is he interested? Is it possible at the different schools?</p>
<p>Consider the student bodies - Lawrence will have different kids than Ithaca or Indiana. Indiana will probably be the most international. Indiana will also have the most grad students. Huge composition department. How many students does each professor have?</p>
<p>What about the musical aesthetics of each department - does he have a feel for that? Does one department encourage more or less experimentation than another? Is there more or less tolerance for styles outside the prevailing one(s)? Does he feel he fits one department better than another - aesthetically?</p>
<p>Good luck! This is the hardest part of all, I always say.</p>
<p>Spirit Manager, Thanks for your very thoughtful rely. Lots to think about and we will consider each of your ideas carefully. He has visited Lawrence and Jacobs twice. I do not think going back would help. We are certainly not rushing to make a decision but are starting to have a preference. Hope we get some good new about merit from other two schools. The question you asked about how many students the professor would have is a very good one we had not thought of. I really appreciate you time and thoughts.</p>
<p>If he is iinterested in graduate school, it needs to be a consideration now. Every one of the schools will allow your son to go to a good grad school. But which school will give your son the best chance at the top schools with fellowships. I think Indiana is that school. But there are alot of other factors than grad school. He needs to rank his priorities over the next month. Nice problem to have.</p>
<p>Congratulations on having a wonderful problem and a month to think about it, as nerve-wracking at that may be. Spirit Manager has given a very thorough response, so I may be repeating some of what she said.</p>
<p>It looks like Jacobs has 50 composition students, roughly half grads, and 8 composition faculty, so that would, I guess, mean that each faculty member might have 3 undergrads and 3 grad students. But then there are also visiting faculty, stellar list, who seem to stay a couple of years. There is a link on the site where you can ask the composition coordinator questions, which might be helpful. Also links to student and faculty pieces. Does your son know whose studio he might be in? Seems as if that might be an interesting thing to know. I also agree with looking at the curriculum and courses (I’m sure you have) and considering academic offerings if your son is inclined in that direction as well. I love that Jacobs has a course on “Notation and calligraphy”! Lots of electronic music.</p>
<p>How about social environment? Would he enjoy a mix of students, do Jacobs students room with fellow musicians, do they take classes with IU students who are not in music? Does he like to be able to get off campus and be in a city? How much more comfortable would he be, being close to home, which you mentioned?</p>
<p>I always was intrigued by Lawrence. Don’t they have an annual music retreat at their facility on an island? Magical! I am sure you are more than well-informed on the curriculum and faculty, all on a smaller scale than Jacobs, and I would think there would be more mixing academically and socially with students who are not involved in music, while having the home base of the conservatory. I get a little concerned when I see a list of graduates that ends in 2002, but that could mean nothing. Ten faculty in theory/composition are listed and four have composition links to listen to, and there are student works to hear as well. The site mentions jazz and opportunities to self-design a major (film, musical theater, technology).</p>
<p>Ithaca is well-respected as you know and we know one really wonderful composers who visited there and loved it. It looks like there are 9 theory prof.'s and two composition faculty, on the website. There are opportunities for interdisciplinary work (film scoring is mentioned for instance). Visiting composition faculty are top notch: 2010-11 was Steven Mackey who won a Pulitzer Prize, for instance. Students work with these composers while they are in residence.</p>
<p>All schools have access to electro-acoustic composing. Looks like Lawrence mentions jazz and Ithaca mentions several disciplines to branch out in, such as film and theater (as I mentioned) and Jacobs is maybe more focused on “classical”/“new music” acoustic and electro-acoustic. So, does your son want width or depth? My impressions are merely superficial but still, might be a theme to explore.</p>
<p>I always thing that diversity of style in student and faculty works is a good sign that individual vision and “voice” are honored and encouraged. I like that Jacobs has this on the composition home-page, as an emphasis: “Our students are also quite diverse in many ways and display a high regard for the interests, ideas, and creations of their student colleagues, an attitude that is strongly supported by the philosophy and structure of the composition department.” (My daughter did not want to go to one well-known school because there seemed to be an orthodoxy of style. And some top conservatories certainly foster competition more than respect for each other, though none of your son’s choices would have those problems.)</p>
<p>Personal contact with the chair of composition or with the faculty member whose studio your son will be in can be really really helpful. They will be wooing your son now, so you can look into any aspect of each school that you want.</p>
<p>Finally, and I know this is probably not possible, but attending classes and also attending composition concerts (and ensembles with cello) can be really helpful.</p>
<p>Money can be a big factor, and was the determining factor for our family in the end. We are not very good at games like playing one school against another, but even for us, a school offered to do more if it helped match another opportunity, so that may come up naturally, or you can introduce it if you are comfortable.</p>
<p>While the tension of deciding can sometimes make you want to get it over with and decide, I think for many of us, we can look back with no regrets because we made use of every single day of this important month. I think it is always better to focus on the quality of the undergrad experience and not worry too much about grad school concerns at this point. Many we know go to grad school in their late twenties, so there is often a lot of time to worry about that!</p>
<p>Sorry to ramble. It will be interesting to hear your son’s final choice!</p>
<p>As compmom has given a very thorough perspective on the composition angle, I will just speak to the cello performance side of things, as a good friend’s daughter just graduated from Indiana on cello performance. Although she also found the larger size daunting at first, she soon found the upside of that aspect of Jacobs: the opportunities provided by the numbers (5 orchestras, numerous ensembles, which means vastly more possibilities for getting your compositions performed and recorded), more studios, more music, more facilities than a smaller school can provide. Having more graduate students there raises the musical cieling.</p>
<p>In terms of campus life, Jacobs students live in the regular dorms with the rest of the college students, and having that kind of broader context culturally and academically can be a bonus for a composer.</p>
<p>Cello is particularly strong at Indiana (thanks to Starker).</p>
<p>I know a comp student from Ithaca going to Vienna for grad program, with an excellent living stipend. He had terrific composition opportunities at Ithaca. My son met the freshman composition class this year. Really great students that he could see himself working with.</p>
<p>Thanks for bringing up the question cellocompmom! I was out of town for a bit, but I’m glad I didn’t miss this discussion entirely. I’ve pm’d Spirit Manager & compmom in the past, and they always have such smart questions. And there’s yet more good wisdom to ponder here. Can’t thank you all enough, as usual!</p>
<p>Cellocompmom, my son has precisely 2/3s of your son’s same decision to make, as his choice now is between Jacobs & Lawrence, for composition (& piano) (he almost applied to Ithaca, but it seemed to him just one more step too far from California.) He started off thinking he wanted a big school, and Jacobs is perfect in so many ways, but he still was intrigued by Lawrence. I started off liking Lawrence a lot, and I was also pretty convinced that my S would thrive more at a small school, but now I’m thinking rather differently. Aside from the fact that Lawrence would be somewhat more expensive in the end, I really loved the collegiality and professionalism of Jacobs (nice combination), the comp faculty we met, and all the enthusiastic & happy students. It didn’t really feel too big. Maybe because the town is pretty small, and the school is in a corner of campus? And the opportunities are literally endless, I totally agree with stringkeymom. I also like the point about grad students raising the ceiling. The comp faculty were very encouraging about undergrads getting time & attention, and not being left out. And, their facilities are extraordinary. Something like 200 new practice rooms being built, with buttons that switch the acoustics to sound like the various halls… crazy.</p>
<p>Certainly Lawrence is much better at the personal attention piece. I think my son really appreciates that. And they appreciated his piano playing more than Jacobs :). But I know very little about the composition faculty or the program. I think there is more non-music required at Lawrence, which may be a large factor for my son. But it’s a bit tricky to compare that, partly since Lawrence is on quarters, and also because IU seems to have a new set of gen ed requirements. I, too, was slightly concerned about the lack of alumni listed for the past decade. And there’s at least one disgruntled Lawrence alum post online somewhere, but I’m guessing a small school engenders more extreme opinions. The son of my brother’s friend is there & loves it, and loads of other people do, too. </p>
<p>Final bit for us to consider is my son also has a jazz trumpet side, and he wants to continue to play for fun somehow if possible. Also to take jazz piano lessons & jazz arranging at some point. I think both schools are potentially quite good for some or all of that (if there’s any time left in the day!) but if anyone knows more, I’d be glad to hear it. </p>
<p>We haven’t actually visited Lawrence at all, but we are probably going to very soon. I suspect they will convince him it’s awesome. In the meantime, cellocompmom, do you have any more information about the comp faculty or the size of the program at all? (I am crossing my fingers that you have good merit news by now.)</p>
<p>momophony, sent you a p.m.
cellocompmom</p>