Whimsical international rising sophomore needs Ivy tips [Canada, low income, 4.0 UW]

Applying to College
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Freshman looking for advice (idk what thread to post this in)! I’m an international applicant from Canada (but I’m also a Ukrainian refugee from 2022 and will need full finaid for Ivies). I go to a very selective private school which has a competitive environment and restricts us somewhat on what courses (e.g AP) we can take.

I won’t provide specific details because my profile is somewhat doxxable. Please give advice for US universities specifically; I’m aiming for Canadian schools as my safeties/targets, but want to shoot my shot. I am fully aware my “anti-hooks” of being an international student and needing aid do not tip the odds in my favor, but then again, anything is possible. So far, I have been doing my ECs purely for fun and have been exploring my interests/touching a lot of grass, am super grateful for where I am right now, and have only just started to realize I might have potential if I really lock in.

Academics:

4.0 UW, I max out my course load at school (idk W), and I also took AP microecon out of school (many students from my grade so similar things). In 10th, I plan to take everything that is available in school and do AP macro out of school (please suggest any other courses I should pursue).

Tests: 5 on Micro, took a practice SAT and predicting 1560-1580+ (I’ll take this in Sophomore; my main concern is minor English issues like grammar or punctuation)

This looks pretty empty, but it is only my freshman year!

Extracurriculars (this might be out of order haha):

1. Debate - some breaks at university tournaments, some speaker awards, one major national qualification (might write about this in my essay or a supp; I started debate as a method to improve language and get more comfortable with being an immigrant).

2. DECA - swept provincials for my event, qualified for ICDC, will have a leadership/teaching role in my club next year (I’m excited, I love my business friends!)

3. MUN - I gaveled at a conference that had international-ish vibes to it.

4. Research - I got into a summer program where I get to write a paper (I’ll have to find some way to publish though); I’m going to be focusing on policy and IR. Paper should be done by next October/November. I got into certain other semi-prestigious uni-affiliated programs but declined most of them because of lack of time.

5. Volunteering - I do a lot of volunteering around kids and youth. I did a thing where I made some curriculum and taught kids certain school subjects, including those of low income or URM (this was part of an established organization). I was also on a Teen Council at my local library and helped coordinate events to bring youth to their new Youth Hub and to get them reading.

6. I bake sourdough bread. I promise this sounds really random, but it’s like a hobby I have. I passed this down from my family back in Ukraine, who are giving me recipes and whatnot; it keeps me non-stressed and connected to my culture. I might find some way to re-route it into a formal extracurricular; suggestions are welcome!

Future:

- I want to do International Relations as my undergraduate track (different universities have different majors for this) and might deviate a bit into business as a minor or double major (I like IR because I want to understand my backstory, but business, specifically entrepreneurship, is an unexpected love I found this year)

- My extracurriculars could really go any way - I’ll probably continue on everything I have been doing so far and might add activities to sharpen the spike.

- I’m also interested in writing (journalism/non-research kind). I welcome suggestions as to how I can tie this in.

Extra info (last yapping session, I promise):

I came to Canada in 2022, and before about 8th-9th, I had no idea how college admissions in North America even worked. My main concern is that people around me have been raised in competitive environments, where they began some of their activities around grade 4 or 5. The ideal suggestions I am looking for are not complete “rebrands” or starting activities in completely new fields, but rather repositioning ideas for my narrative, maybe specific programs to do or other things that would boost my chances.

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So I would suggest you are pretty much doing everything you should be doing. For the most selective holistic review US colleges, the standard list is:

Reasonably challenge yourself across all the “core” academic areas as available at your secondary school. I note while it is fine to currently have an interest in IR, you should be open to your interests evolving before you would be applying.

OK, then explore a variety of activities and then gradually focus in on the ones you find most enjoyable, fulfilling, and otherwise meaningful. These do NOT need to be specifically related to whatever you end up wanting to study in college, indeed they don’t have to be academic in nature at all. What really matters is it is stuff you authentically love doing, since that is stuff you might actually continue doing in some way in college. And, for certain things, having a high level of demonstrated talent/skill may also be relevant to you actually doing it at certain colleges (but this only applies to some things at some colleges).

Finally, don’t neglect personal and ethical development, and specifically challenge yourself to keep becoming a more valued person in your school and local communities. Of course different people have different ways of doing that, but don’t be afraid to push the boundaries of your comfort zone, including risking feeling awkward sometimes. It is part of the development process.

And that’s pretty much it. A perhaps surprising number of people who are interested in highly selective holistic review colleges don’t really do all three of those things, so doing all three seriously is already a big advantage. And then the rest is really about picking good fits and writing good applications (more below).

If you need a “source”, you can check out this classic advice from MIT Admissions, but I have seen the AOs for pretty much every highly selective holistic review college in the US say the same sorts of things:

Then when it comes to fit issues, I would suggest you maybe think a little more broadly about what could be a US undergrad experience you really value. The Ivy League proper is just a sports conference, and while all the research universities in that sports conference are quite good, for sure not all the excellent research universities in the US are in it, including just because a lot were way too far away to play football with Harvard and Yale back when teams travelled by bus on unimproved roads.

And then research universities are not the only sorts of undergrad programs that the US does very well. We also have a lot of undergrad-focused institutions, sometimes broadly known as Liberal Arts and Sciences Colleges or LACs, although confusingly there are also some excellent undergrad-focused institutions that are more tech-focused.

And then within these broad categories, different institutions have different academic mixes, different non-academic experience opportunities, different student cultures, different settings and locations . . . a lot of dimensions to think about and decide how to evalute and prioritize. If you spend some time really investigating and reflecting on these things and then pick the truly best fits for you, it then maximizes your chances of getting some exciting offers to consider.

Finally, in terms of financing, again a lot more US colleges might provide the aid you need besides the ones in that sports conference. That is a tricky subject and it is premature at this point to get to into details, but just know that it isn’t only the Ivies with generous aid budgets, and that in fact includes quite a few LACs.

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Thanks very much!

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I work with students on essays and frequently read about EC’s. Many seem to write research papers, just a note.

To me the most interesting and distinctive thing about you is baking sourdough bread. It would make a great essay, tying it to your background in Ukraine, your family, your transitioning to Canada.

You are young and have a lot of high school ahead. I would suggest not doing too many things you think you “should” do for admissions. Try not to even think about college for a year or two! Figure out your authentic interests and develop them. If you bake, or collect butterflies, or love pottery, or do tai chi (being random here), whatever…..Many Ivies don’t have business as you probably know. Make friends, have some down time, enjoy high school! (I know there is a lot of pressure in your environment…)

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It’s nice that you are thinking about this but you have only one year of high school grades, and no SAT or ACT score (required or recommended by some colleges).

Also, I’m not sure why you are highlighting the Ivy League schools when there are thousands of other colleges in this country, and many of them could very well be great (and possibly affordable) places for you to study.

Most selective private schools have excellent college counseling. But it’s very possible they don’t start these conversations with freshmen. Find out the timeline for your high school. These schools want to have their students be successful with college admissions, and will also know the track record of how students have done with admissions from your school.

Here is my opinion. You should do ECs that you enjoy doing. Find the thing(s) you truly enjoy and dive in. These should be what you want to do, not things you hope will impress some college adcom in the future. If your ECs are done with commitment, that will show. Do what you love and love what you do.

Continue to get great grades as you have started to do.

Open your mind to colleges that are not necessarily elite colleges, but have the characteristics you want in a college. And recognize this could change in the next couple of years. Your perspective could be quite different when you are actually applying than it is now.

And lastly, please don’t compare yourself to any other students or friends at your school. Your college search is yours…and comparing notes really isn’t the best idea, in my opinion. What others are doing doesn’t matter as it relates to your college search and selection process.

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My first reaction reading your post is to think of the “applying sideways” blog on the MIT admissions web site that @NiceUnparticularMan already referenced. As I understand it, it recommends that you do what is right for you, do it very well, take classes that are appropriate for you, and treat people well. I might add that if you get into a leadership position then remember that “leadership” involves listening, and making the activity better for everyone who is involved. Leadership specifically should not be about getting your way. This approach IMHO is appropriate for any of the top ranked and famous universities in the USA, or pretty much any other college or university, and is specifically not JUST recommended for MIT.

Regarding classes, challenge yourself but be careful not to jump ahead too quickly. This is particularly important in mathematics, where everything that you learn will be largely based on what you were supposed to learn in earlier classes.

You have many excellent universities in Canada, and thus if you continue with anything close to a 4.0 unweighted GPA you should be covered very well on safeties. In addition to the excellent large ones such as McGill and Toronto and Queens and UBC (and …) you might also want to think about the excellent small ones such as Mount Allison (or Acadia, Lethbridge, …). Of course in looking at schools in the US you might also want to consider some of the smaller schools that we would refer to as liberal arts colleges.

Your list of ECs is long. This is not a contest to come up with the longest list of ECs. Instead, focus on what is right for you and do it very well. You do not need to add more activities.

I also like the sourdough bread. I cook “granola bread” and am actually wondering whether the two ideas could mix. I take a bunch of dough that is ready to use, and then knead about a cup of granola into it. Then I let it rise and cook it in the normal manner. I am thinking that this might work well with sourdough bread (if only I had the sour dough to try it!).

And look for a university that is a good fit for you. Find out the differences between the various highly ranked and famous universities in the US, and think about what would make a school a good fit. As an example, Harvard and MIT are only a bit more than a mile apart, and are both famous, but they are very different schools.

At private high schools sometimes students are way too focused on attending famous universities. However in practice students can get an excellent education at any one of a huge range of colleges and universities. Employers know that very good graduates come from a huge range of schools, and graduate admissions knows the same thing. If you graduate from a famous university and then get a good job, you will find that your coworkers come from “all over the place”. If you attend a graduate program at a famous or highly ranked university (they are not always the same thing, depending upon your major), then again you will find yourself studying alongside graduate students who graduated from a huge range of undergraduate universities. Keep an open mind and think about what you want in a college or university.

And it is also possible to get a bachelor’s degree in Canada and a graduate degree in the US, or vice versa.

And this is very important (and worth an upvote just by itself). You should be you. If you are at a private school then you will probably know lots of competitive and ambitious students. They are not the competition. You just being you and doing whatever you do well is job number one.

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Agreed, it’s a little too early (but it’s good that you’re thinking about college). For now, aim to excel in high school, both academically and in activities you enjoy doing.

In a couple of years, create a new thread using the “chance me / match me” category.

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Canadian universities are much cheaper than U.S. universities. You seem to be a strong candidate for several Canadian universities. I will focus on just U.S. options. If you end up officially scoring a 1560+ on the SAT, you might as well just focus on the eight Ivys: Brown, Cornell, Columbia, Dartmouth, Harvard, University of Pennsylvania, Princeton, Yale. You’ll likely end up applying to as few as 4 or all 8. The Canadian options would be your fallback options because you can apply to U.S. schools in the future for graduate/professional school. You’ll need to figure out how you are interested in pursuing international relations since each school offers a distinct approach - some are pre-professional, others fall more under liberal arts.

Taking the AP Macroeconomics exam is a good idea. If you can take AP Comparative Government and/or U.S. Government, that would also be a nice-to-have. Four AP scores of “5” would provide you with an admissions advantage. Perhaps your high school offers a government class that is comparable to an AP class. If so, you could also take that AP exam next May. I would also recommend reading Theory of International Relations by Kenneth N. Waltz (1979).

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This student needs to keep in mind that some of these colleges are need aware for international students. IOW, their level of financial need might be considered when their application for admission is considered.

Why the Ivies? There are tons of other excellent colleges that have strong international relations programs.

When the time comes…first and foremost, this student needs to find a college they like, where they have a strong likelihood of acceptance, and that is affordable.

@waffledestroyer do you want some suggestions of colleges? Or might it be better to first discuss this with the college counselor at your very elite private school. Of course, we can give ideas to explore.

But we need a lot more info from you…urban vs rural? Size? Geographic location preference? If you are a woman, would you consider women’s colleges?

And really…at some point you will need an annual amount your parents can contribute to your college costs.

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waffledestroyer would need to drop any “need-aware” option from the list. There must be excellent universities in Canada that offers solid programs focusing on international relations. The Canadian options are going to be less expensive. Why overcomplicate by applying to too many U.S. schools? (again, this is assuming he does achieve the 1560+ SAT composite score). waffledestroyer states needing “Ivy tips” in the prompt.

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I would not start thinking about individual colleges at this early stage. While it is good to recognize that college is in your future, your desires, interests, etc. may change as you continue to explore classes and activities in HS.

For now, focus on being the best “you” possible. Take the most rigorous courseload you can comfortably manage, pursue ECs and hobbies you enjoy and work towards making meaningful contributions, and enjoy your family and friends. When the time comes, prepare for standardized tests.

Remember that HS is not just a four year college prep class – it should be a time of growth and exploration. Take advantage of this time in your life.

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You are not yet ready to do some of the things suggested. There are things you will completely change your mind about by the time you apply to college. You might be doing different things, or be so immersed in one thing that other activities will fall by the wayside. You should just keep doing what you’re doing; IOW, the things you really enjoy that motivate you, that you care about.

Good. Keep that up.

Why? There is no expectation that you take courses outside of what is offered at school. Colleges prefer to see grades in classes that are on offer at your school. Sacrificing your valuable time trying to cram in a bunch of AP tests that are not offered at your school is not going to be a boost to your application.

Right, it’s only your freshman year. It does not look empty.

This is also untrue. You do not need to have been doing an extracurricular since you were 9 or 10 to get into any college. This is great way to freak yourself out. Please let go of this idea.

Please remind yourself of this on a regular basis, especially when you are considering ideas like taking AP exams that you don’t need to take. Your time is precious. Use it to do the things that matter to you without considering if it’s the “right” activity to apply to an elite university. It’s a funny thing, but when you genuinely love the things you do, it’s going to come through in your application. Don’t spread yourself too thinly.

You have already made your own good suggestions, ie, your bread idea.

You seem like a very bright and motivated student. I see a few red flags in your post that concern me. Mainly that, in your quest to get into an Ivy League, do research papers, study for AP exams that your school doesn’t offer classes in, trying to “sharpen” spikes, etc…you are possibly going to burn out and have a hard time maintaining your grades.

Remember that at the end of the day, grades will still probably be the single most important factor in your application. Work hard at everything you do, but don’t overstretch yourself. Don’t worry right now about essays, applications, taking AP exams, etc… You are really young, so take time to experiment and learn what really excites you. That is probably NOT studying for extra unnecessary tests.

People who attend Ivy Leagues and other prestigious schools are not superhuman automatons who study relentlessly and sacrifice their mental health just for the sake of college. Don’t burn out when you’re only 15.

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Theory of International Politics, that is.

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@waffledestroyer, I’ve never heard of any US child, at the ages of 10 or 11, beginning their college careers.

I have seen kids do activities that they love: like swim, gymnastics or softball/baseball. If their parents do it right, then the kids are loving it!

My neighbor has a child who loved anything having to do with baseball.

He played Little League.

He went to professional, HS and local college baseball games.

He and his parents visited the baseball stadiums during summer vacations. He attended baseball camps to learn how to swing a bat. He played high school and club ball.
As an adult now, he has season tickets to college and pro games and is taking classes to learn how to manage a little league team.

The “kid” just loves baseball and he’s all about baseball. So yes, the fascination started early but he didn’t do it to get into college. He just loves the game.

That’s the major difference. I think with his college essay he did an essay take on the “Mighty Casey struck out” theme. His mom always tells me how much she loved that essay.

If you love something and it’s part of your personality then that’s what the colleges want to see. You’re not supposed to think of beginning activities where you have no stake in the game.

My son-in-law is Canadian born and bred. He had no idea that he would eventually live in the US and be married to an American citizen and yet he’s here..

He attended Waterloo and had a fantastic education. He worked and paid his own bills because the Canadian schools were/are so much more affordable. He received his education and it’s worked out well for him Plus, his degree is respected by US and Canadian employers.

Don’t gear your life towards a college acceptance because the admissions staff can see through the laundry lists and are not impressed by students who only live to seek acceptance.

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Regarding need blind colleges in the US- and you are not limited to these obviously:

The most often listed schools are Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, Brown, MIT, Bowdoin, Amherst

One site adds Georgetown, University of Notre Dame, and Grinnell (the latter for “eligible non-citizens”).

In many cases merit or outside scholarships are subtracted from financial aid, again fyi.

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Washington and Lee University is need blind for international students.

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For OP’s information: he wouldn’t count as an “eligible non-citizen”.

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As a high level observation, a lot of the top universities in Canada are broadly similar to top public universities in the United States. So I often think of Canadians as sort of being in the same situation as Californians–they have a variety of really great options in-country/in-state, at subsidized rates. So, why do anything else?

I think the answer is often reasonably NOT to do something else, but I also think there are sometimes good reasons. One obvious reason is just you want to try out a different format, like a midsize private university or smaller private undergrad-focused institution. Not that there is nothing like that in Canada, but the US really does have a crazy number of options like that by International standards.

Or you just want to try out living somewhere different. I don’t think using college as an opportunity to do that is a bad idea . . . IF you can do it in an affordable way.

But if something like that is why a Canadian might look at the US, or for that matter a Californian might look outside the UC/CSU system, then there is no obvious reason to limit themselves to just the Ivies. Again, there are many more US colleges on those alternative formats, and many more that could potentially be affordable under the right circumstances.

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Also, regarding “research” as a high schooler. Please understand something about legitimate research papers that are published in credible journals. A research paper is often only published after several years of research and peer review. As an example, my own kid, now in her late 20’s, worked on papers in her first post-college job that took over 4 years to get published, and that was working with a known expert in her field.

It is very unusual for a high schooler’s research to be published while they are still in high school. I have no idea about your particular area of research, but be aware that the odds of getting it published by credible journals, before you apply to college, are low. It’s probably a fun program that will give you some great experience. Typically, it’s the lead investigator that gets a paper published, not a student participating in a summer course.

It’s great to do it if it interests you, but have realistic expectations. Colleges are aware that research is a popular activity for students.

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I looked at Georgetown because for IR it is an obvious top choice, however, while being need blind for admissions it offers hardly any aid for internationals, so did not seem appropriate for OP’s financial constraints. (There are other schools which many might also consider better for IR than generic “ivies”’ but aid is also an issue at those.)

Alternatively somewhere that is need aware for internationals but that will meet need if admitted (like NYU does since implementing the NYU Promise, and Tufts, both good for IR) might be worth considering.

But all this is a couple of years down the track. There has been a lot of good advice here for OP about how to approach the next couple of years which is good, and to which all I will add is - remember you only get to be a teenager once in your life. Enjoy it.

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