Why a student from California need to apply to U-M (university of Michigan)

Applying to College
81

<p>Alrighty then.</p>

<p>UMich is anexcellent school, but that cannot be the only reason to apply. What is your daughter looking for in a school? Location, social scene, weather, academics, rural vs. urban, etc. Apply that logic to the rest of the schools on her list.</p>

<p>Are you saying that I’m concerned with names? The schools on the list you have compiled are so disjointed that the only common thread is their prestige. I’m not trying to attack you, but you seem so prestige-driven rather than focusing on your daughter’s needs in a school.</p>

82

<p>Well if she is interested in premed then any school is okay.Why would you spend the money to go out of state?
If she is interested in computer science and you want ratings why not University of Illinois?
As far as Michigan goes, if she is good enough to get into many of the other schools on the list then she will likely qualify for OOS academic money at Michigan up to full tuition or more which is not as easy to to get at CMU and of course non existent at many of the others.</p>

<p>If she wants to go out of state and would be interested in the other great national university (other than UCB) and wants a state school that has a significant out of state population (36% or so) and is in a great college town then Michigan is a good choice. Depends on what she wants -big ,small medium.
By the way if she is interested in CS and premed I am not sure Olin fits the bill. It is engineering, is quite specialized, extremely small,and will have a lower acceptence rate than MIT next year. Probably down to 1/11. If she is interested in engineering , Umich is implementing some of the same stuff that Olin does (they have been studying the Olin approach for a couple of years )</p>

<p>Hopefully, she is choose on fit and not just the on ranking of a magazine. Since it is a good thing to visit and spend time at each school, cutting the list down might be a good idea.</p>

83

<p>I don’t count 20.</p>

<p>By my count, there are currently 25 schools on your list. (Is it really your list or really your daughter’s list?) To add UMich would make it 26. Half that number – 13-- would make it ambitious, let alone 26. It is very difficult to create fabulous, individualized applications to more than 10 or 12 schools. It’s not just the accomplishments and the ambitions that get noticed: it’s the quality of the individual application that sets it apart from just another high-achieving student.</p>

<p>One aspect of those applications is to make them focused. On the one hand, she wants computer science; on the other hand, pre-med. Is she going to create one kind of application for Universities strong in CS; a different kind for those strong in pre-med? It’s fine to have 2 goals – or be clear about a major & a minor, but if it’s not carefully done, it can look indecisive. </p>

<p>It might look stronger to double-major (if that’s what <em>she</em> wants; just keep in mind that anything that she herself does not want will not sound convincing). One cannot double-major at Princeton, however. It’s important to do research on each school’s programs. Otherwise, the fit will not look good, & the admissions committee will notice that right away.</p>

84

<p>It might have helped people understand ParentofIvyHope and his (his daughter’s) college list if he had let everyone know his daughter is a sophomore this year – and will be a junior next year.</p>

<p>his/her list is appropriately long (my son’s is just as long) since the student is a sophomore. this is the time to be listing schools and looking at possibilities. Once she has a better idea of test scores, GPA and class rank towards the end of junior year – she can start eliminating schools. She also needs to visit some schools and get an idea of what schools she likes (hopefully she gets to do this) but she has plenty of time.</p>

<p>I also think that the language and culture barriers are contributing to the seeming hostility of the thread. I also recommend schools to my son – he is so busy with all his classes, ECs, etc that he certainly doesn’t spend time looking at colleges – but when someone mentions one that I think he might be interested in, I tell him about it. </p>

<p>I do disagree with the seeming need for an Ivy or Ivy caliber school – there are many, many excellent schools which may be a better fit – but perhaps more time spent on CC will help ParentofIvyHope with that.</p>

<p>ParentofIvyHope just wants what is best for his daughter – and they both have some time to figure out exactly what that is.</p>

<p>I also agree – the thread might have been better if the question was “why pay so much for UMich if you could go to UCB with in-state tuition”.</p>

85

<p>University of Michigan has the naked mile…enough said.(american pie 5)</p>

86

<p>ParentOfIvyHope: this thread is almost as pathetic as you are.</p>

87

<p>“why pay so much for UMich if you could go to UCB with in-state tuition”.</p>

<p>From an academic standpoint UCB and UMich are equal. However, there are many differences in terms of the states they reside in, the student body, the surrounding environment, the athletics, etc. ParentofIvyHope seems to only consider academics when coming up with a list for his daughter. I would gladly pay a little more to go out of state if it’s a school I’d be happier in.</p>

<p>You can also mark me down as a Californian who applied to Michigan.</p>

88

<p>There might be a simple answer,
If you like the feeling somewhat similar to your high school go UCs.
If you want a different experience and financially OK then go out of state.
UMich could be a good choice if you feel it’s a fit.</p>

89

<p>“I’ve never seen such a prestige-driven parent.”</p>

<p>I “have” (in a way). They’re actually the invisible presences behind the dozens of similar driven threads & posts on this forum, started by students who seem to be mirroring the identical demand for Fame or Nothing. Lots of them similarly boast of applying to 23 (for example) colleges, not dissimilar at all to the ones on POIH’s list. There are a few differences, but those are mainly due to geographical (residence) distinctions. Either that’s just the most amazing coincidence in the world, or those students are sheep, reflecting peers who think that way, or they have parents pushing them big-time. </p>

<p>Stef, I, a parent, started the research process early, too. (D’s soph. year.) It was really more for my edification than hers; I mainly wanted to be literate enough so that I would recognize names (in some cases) I had never heard of previously. (I also had a lot to learn about the application process.) That pretty much takes me out of the running for being someone with 22 reaches on a “suggested” list, since many of them are humble by the standards set by the OP’s post. In any case, humble or not, my tentative (research) list I can guarantee you was never seriously in the order of 25 or any magnitude thereof.</p>

<p>I also liked what cgm said about changing majors. Even the most diehard types really do change sometimes. Know of 2 acquaintances of ours who have recently switched science majors @Berkeley – one because of difficulty of the major, the other for some technical (flexibility) reasons. But one of these students was absolutely “sure” going in that she knew her major.</p>

<p>My rule of thumb for both my girls is to suggest U’s where there are a minimum of two majors whose departments rock. Solves the major/minor concern right there, but also the switching majors problem. Sometimes you get a jerk of a professor who’s teaching most of your Concentration classes, or the advisor’s a first-class jerk, and you’re stuck. Or the class schedules are impossible, or conflict with an on-campus job. I realize it’s a little more complicated when you have to apply to a whole school within a college, or college within a U, but in that case make sure there are two such divisions that you, the student, will be comfortable with in case of a change.</p>

<p>I keep saying this: often it’s the “lucky” students who are rejected from one college & get into a “lesser” college with a superior program in a particular favored major. Moral of the story: It’s not the college; it’s the <em>program</em>. For certain programs, Berkeley is not the best choice; for others, Harvard is not the best choice; for others, Princeton is not the best choice. And so on.</p>

90

<p>epiphany – I have a similiar purpose in learning about the college application proces. We are a low-income familly and not only does my son have to find a college that is the right “fit”, we also have to find one with good FA. I have learned a ton – and I think it will be very helpful. My son is undecided on his major – we know he prefers humanities. His passion is world religions and he would to someone use that in a career internationally – so I look for schools that have good IR departments and good religions departments and possiblities for internships. He is hoping to visit more schools – that usually either eliminates them from the list, or they move to the top.</p>

<p>The only reason I mentioned that the length of the list might be ok – is that I have a list that is similiarly long. I just jot it down and then at a later time, I look up the FA info, admission stuff and my son take a brief glance at it. We either eliminate it from the list – or keep it on for further research. We have been doing this for about a year now, and we have about 25 schools. They are all over the board as far as selectivity – but it would seem silly to start eliminating schools or finalize a list in the sophomore year. When he gets to the end of the junior year (and we have a good grip on stats – and maybe he knows more about what he is looking for) then we can start eliminating schools. He can work on his final list without having to start from scratch with Peterson’s 100 million colleges:) </p>

<p>norcalguy – I wasn’t saying that it was a ridiculous question – just that they thread might have made sense if it had been worded differently. </p>

<p>For my son, if he were a Cali resident (we are not) and he got into UCB and UM (I don’t think he would even apply to either one – but for the sake of the argument), the choice would be automatic. Whether the school was a slightly better fit or not, unless he got a huge scholarship to UM, financial reasons would determine he go to UCB. It wouldn’t even be a choice he could make.</p>

91

<p>correct, stef, but you’re merely reinforcing my point – and the point of some of the students on this thread: it’s about the fit (including financial). And if the financial aid packages were identical, and geographical concerns absent, you wouldn’t probably be selecting between two acceptances based on rankings, but your son and you would be discussing together the best or better of those schools, based on opportunities for him in his chosen areas of interest.</p>

92

<p>very true!</p>

<p>we just still have a long list because he isn’t to the point of even being able to determine fit.</p>

<p>I agree with the many posters who are upset by the prestige driven parents and kids whose motto is Ivy or Bust – but sometimes the tone of both sides seems so aggressive and angry. I think that some learning can take place on both sides. These prestige driven parents didn’t conceive this idea in a vaccuum – they are also hearing about how important certain schools are, maybe from neighbors, parents at school, relatives – somewhere. And hopefully some further education will persuade them that it is about fit and not name.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I also read posts about how the name is nothing and someone is a horrible parent for even imagining an Ivy and how xxx Ivy is the worst schools, etc. The posts are over the top as far as the amount of emotion in them – and they make one wonder whether the person holds a certain amount of bitterness or anger regarding the Ivies for whatever reason.</p>

<p>I have no problem with people who disagree – it just seems the tone could be a little less of a personal attack on both sides of the issue.</p>

93

<p>Well I guess I feel slightly different than what you expressed in your post 92. Since I see so much more of the opposite on CC, particularly students <em>approving of</em> equally pointless lists by other students, and mocking or criticizing any suggestion deviating from such a list – as “cr*p” or “lame” or otherwise beneath an OP or a fellow poster – I’m glad to see many more grounded people on this thread, actually.</p>

<p>EDIT: perhaps my word “pointless” was too harsh. I meant it as, “not coming genuinely from the student” (not based on reasons for the choices).</p>

<p>I think I can understand why students react strongly to parents “taking over” a personal decision such as college choice. If there’s shared financial responsibility for that choice, AND a significant difference in price, I can see more need for at least a joint decision, or parental <em>influence</em> regarding options and responsibilities for the financial implications.</p>

94

<p>point taken – I do see more of the “Ivy is the only way to go” posts than the other side. I think it is more the tone and not the content that I object to – and I think that posts with more moderate tones are better able to convey the information – the nasty posts don’t get heard by the person that really needs to be listening the most</p>

95

<p>Thanks hsmomstef for the rescue and putting in a better worded sentences than I could.
Thanks Epiphany for your information too.</p>

<p>hsmomstef is correct in stating that it is not possible to cut the list at this point as we don’t know all the scores from her standardized testing. </p>

<p>This is exploring phase and my daughter and I would like to explore as many colleges as possible. She go thru most of my threads and posts whenever she has time and then we do discuss the responses.</p>

<p>It has been a very useful process and we think it has enhanced our understanding of the colleges, majors and the application process.</p>

<p>She still thinks that she will prefer to join HYPMSC than other colleges if she can get thru, with Yale as her first choice.</p>

<p>But I know those are super reach colleges and so I try to provide her list of colleges that I think will satisfy her quench of prestig and also provide her best of Comp Science and pre med.</p>

96

<p>your last paragraph is telling</p>

<p>“her quench for pretige” and you providing her the list</p>

<p>one, your daughter needs to get out of that mindset, looking at names, names names…the whole idea of “prestige” is just not the way to look at schools</p>

<p>secondly, this is HER process, you need to back off a bit, be helpful, but she really needs to do more research herself, after all once she gets to school, she will have to do it all herself</p>

<p>my best advice it to provide her the tools to do her own research and analysis, and go beyond the rankings to pick a school, if that is how she is looking at schools, that is something that needs to be expanded to other areas- locations, size, majors, finances, student body, etc</p>

97

<p>It think the concept of leaving the children on their own might not be the best idea.</p>

<p>When we talk about the problem in the inner city schools, the top most point comes up that the children there lack parent involvement, or a mentor in their life.</p>

<p>So when parent try to do good jobs people come back screaming back off you are overshadowing the children.</p>

<p>Makeup your mind about what is bad for children parent involvement or lack of it.</p>

<p>I certainly feel lack of it is the problem and so would like to be involve in my daughter’s college research process as I can provide a different aspect to everything and if we work on the consensus approach then results have to be better than doing anything alone.</p>

98

<p>I think that you can probably do the best good for your D if you consistently point out that how well known a school is does not necessarily correspond with how well it fits her. If you D gets into Yale, great – but if she doesn’t, will she be absolutely crushed or will she take a look a some non-ivys that she applied for and liked and be happy. That is where the parenting comes in. Make sure she understands that the name is just a minor part of what makes up a school and she needs to look alot further than that. </p>

<p>What is it about Yale that she likes enough to make it her current top pick? Help guide her to less selective schools that have the same qualities so that she has some choice and some back-ups to her list.</p>

99

<p>The actual point was never answered at all as I think people got me wrong.
Here is what my reasoning is:</p>

<ol>
<li>As far as UC’s are concerned it is harder to get into UC as out of state candidate than in state. i.e out of state candidates need to be better than in state. So I assumed same for U-M.</li>
<li>So if it is harder to get into U-M as a californian and UC-B, UC-LA, U-M are equally hard to get in than a student from California bound to get into UC-B or UC-LA in order to get into U-M or even have to be better.</li>
<li>So if the student have to be better to get into U-M than to get into UC-B, then the student will certainly qualify for good private schools like CMU, U. Chicago, Northwestern, Duke, JHU and other.</li>
<li>So then why student should waste time, energy effort to consider U-M instead of other good private colleges as the tuition is going to be same and the chances of the student to get into U-M and those private colleges are same.</li>
<li>If a tutition at a two college is same then attending one college is justified iff

<ul>
<li> college is way better than other colleges</li>
<li> college is much easier to get into than other colleges.</li>
</ul></li>
</ol>

<p>So I wanted to understand one of the two reasons:</p>

<ol>
<li>Is U-M way better than the colleges I listed on the list from U-Penn, Columbia, Northwestern, Duke, JHU, U Chicago, Cornell,</li>
<li>Or is it much easier to get into U-M than UC-B or UC-LA.</li>
</ol>

100

<p>Carolyn: I’ve already stated that you can certainly have a debate why pay for private college when you have good public college.</p>

<p>But what can be the reasoning for paying for a public college when you have an equivalent public college instate.</p>

<p>Just answer what you will do if your child tells you to rent a place ($15000/year) in another public high school area than your neighborhood high school eventhough the school are same.</p>