<p>Nope, not providing any candles (although they know where they are LOL!)!</p>
<p>It’s just a different perspective, I guess. I don’t see that S and GF are provided with any more opportunity than they would be in a car, etc (ok, it might be more comfortable ;)). There are people who don’t allow “car dating” either, for exactly this reason. And those kids whose parents won’t provide the house or car will STILL find a place, if they are determined.</p>
<p>I guess I have more trust in the judgement of my child. I trust that he will make good decisions, and that means I don’t need to babysit him every minute.</p>
<p>Other people’s mileage may vary, and this also depends upon the kid.</p>
<p>SBmom, My H has a really hard time as well. He won’t really talk to them about it. He talks to me, and I talk to them. </p>
<p>atomom, I agree completely. </p>
<p>Hey, remember that scene in “The Patriot” when they sew the boyfriend into a muslin bag that goes all the way up to his neck? I loved it when the mother said to the father (who has his ear pressed against the wall) “Don’t worry dear, I’m a better seamstress than my mother was.” heheh</p>
<p>“Hanna: How can this be true? Perhaps it’s because in an arranged marriage you are called upon to DECIDE to love, and to commit.”</p>
<p>Yes, I think that’s part of it. But do you have to be a virgin or sexually inexperienced to make that kind of decision? I don’t think so. Perhaps there are marriages that break up because one partner is used to sexual variety and gets bored with monogamy. But I’ve seen marriages that break up because one partner feels that s/he never got a chance to live it up before settling down. There’s no one life formula that leads people to long-term happiness.</p>
<p>Besides, there are plenty of old-fashioned “successful” marriages I wouldn’t want for myself. My grandmother married my grandfather for his money and stability. They stuck together till death, she cared for him in his decline, etc…and I don’t think there was a single day when she enjoyed his company. I never heard them speak to each other in a warm tone of voice, even at their 50th anniversary party. No thanks. They decided to commit and stuck with it, but I want something better than that kind of success, and if I don’t find it, I’ll stay single.</p>
<p>Side note: unreasonable person that I am, one of the things in the parenting workbook is the ability to talk to children of either sex about sex. It’s up there with husbands being able to make social arrangements and wives being able to take the car in for servicing without getting snookered.</p>
<p>x-posted. Great post, Hanna. A relationship is not a checklist. Without warmth, friendship, shared good humor, etc., a relationship just isn’t worth it.</p>
<p>My only caveat is that, in my observation, there are very few “perfect” relationships. We all (I think) make compromises but I don’t think everyone does so with eyes wide often.</p>
<p>I get the inclination for conducting thought experiments both as a writer and as an early bent towards science. I’ve noted that there are people that I could have a great three-week vacation with but could never live with, people whose company I’d enjoy for a year but where a long-term relationship would never work, etc. </p>
<p>A significant fraction of dating, relationships, etc. isn’t so much about finding out about other people as it is about finding out about yourself and what works and what doesn’t work for you.</p>
<p>If the kids are not going to have some good, hot sex with multiple partners while they are in college, when are they going to have it? ;)</p>
<p>We’ve made it clear that our house is always open to their boyfriends (or girlfriends) and that they are old enough and mature enough to figure out the sleeping arrangements. My wife’s rule is that they are old enough to have sex when they are capable of discussing (and implementing) safe sex practices by themselves without giggling. I would MUCH prefer they did it in my house than under a bush or at a drunken party.</p>
<p>But for reasons I can’t figure out, both my kids have turned out to be “slow” (that is, at least from my perspective and that of my wife - of course, there could be things they aren’t telling…)</p>
<p>“If you are going to leave them alone in the house, are you going to provide candles, music and lingerie as well?”</p>
<p>Isn’t that what allowances are for? :)</p>
<p>“Hey, remember that scene in “The Patriot” when they sew the boyfriend into a muslin bag that goes all the way up to his neck?”</p>
<p>The Puritans pretty much REQUIRED premarital sex before marriage (to be sure that God would bless the marriage as fruitful), and it is estimated that, around 1740, some 60% of women were pregnant before marriage.</p>
<p>jlauer, I agree with your point about being willing to take advice from parents at all ages. I do it too. If all parties are dealing with each other as secure adults and respect each others’ decisions then it is wonderful. But if the relationship is still one of “daddy/mommy knows best” then it is not healthy. </p>
<p>BTW, since my D is only a high school sophomore, I am far from facing the question of how to room the visiting college-going daughter and boyfriend, but I think my answer would be “sleep however you like”. I want them to feel at home when they come home. </p>
<p>To those who would force their adult kids to sleep apart, how would you treat another family member, say, your divorced or widowed 40 year old sister who visits with her recent boyfriend?</p>
<p>Hanna, Very well put. I don’t think that it’s imparative that you be a virgin before marriage at all. I do however think that you need to have a true respect for yourself . I would not have been comfortable with a man that had been “a total player.” Virginity is great if that’s a goal for you or for your spouse, but it certainly is not the end all be all in my opinion.
One thing that I’ve learned is that no one can really judge the “health” of someone else’s marriage. “All that glistens isn’t gold” and the opposite can also be true. We’ve known several friends and family members that have divorced over the years. Some have not been a surprise, but others were a complete shock! The inner workings of a marriage are quite complex. One thing that my H and I do is to regularly “renew” our marriage. We go on little get aways, even if it’s nothing more than a couple of nights in a tent in the woods. We try to treat our marriage sort of like any other important and complex machine…If you don’t ever put fuel in the car it’s not going to go. You also have to change the oil, buy new tires and get it checked out under the hood from time to time.
I think that if you are looking for the perfect marriage you will be looking for the rest of your life. To me, long courtships that last years are a problem because the early years are generally the easiest, when there are challenges, a commitment is nice…
Another reason that arranged marriages can be successful is because the “arrangement” is thought about in a logical way. Do they have similar socioeconomical, religious and educational backgrounds? What are the families like? Were they raised with similar values? There is definately more to it than making a list, but a list can’t hurt either in my opinion! One of the first things that I did when I thought that there might be potential for my husband and I was to meet his family. I’m a firm believer in meeting the family. I wanted to see what his parents were like, did they treat each other with respect? Did they communicate? What kind of role models did my boyfriend have? Are his siblings normal people? Is there a history of imprisonment or violence? What do I need to discuss w/my boyfriend about the life he knew before me?
OK, I’m babbling now. Sorry.
One last note. I will say that my husband and I were very attracted to each other physically. After 20 years, we both feel that we owe it to each other to stay fairly fit, to take care of ourselves etc. because although attraction is not only about your physical appearance, it can’t hurt either!</p>
<pre><code>I have a different relationship with my kids than my divorced friends and they are also fair amount older!
Mini, the sex I had while in college was exciting on one level, but does not come close to what I have w/my H, and he was one of the good hot sex in college experiences!
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<p>No kidding, Mini. I found this absolutely amazing. Those guys were wacko. These were the same folks who forbade New England style contra-dancing (like a Virginia Reel) because of the touching of the woman’s waist. </p>
<p>From further south, and not a Puritan obviously, I did read that the line in Yankee Doodle Dandy is a reference to George Washington’s excellent country dancing skills, “mind the music and the step, and with the girls be handy.” He often left his tent to go out dancing as a personal escape, when he should have been planning military strategy. Another one who needed to learn to balance his priorities.</p>
<p>"These were the same folks who forbade New England style contra-dancing (like a Virginia Reel) because of the touching of the woman’s waist. "</p>
<p>I can see how that would be in line with the pre-marital sex thing, depending on the way you look at it. The premarital sex thing was so that the couple was sure the marriage would be fruitful (after all, the whole reason for marriage was procreation). The hands on the waist prohibition would be because reels are usually done with indiscriminate partners, right? Sort of like square dancing? Therefore, putting the hands on the waists of people other than your spouse, or soon to be spouse, would be considered a no-no. Basically, those people didn’t have a problem with sex within a monogamous relationship. They had a problem with adultery.</p>
I think when you meet the right guy, Hanna, something is going to go wrong in your relationship with him too. That seems to be the way it is because, the last time I looked, thousands of marriages between individuals with lots of prior experience have ended in extreme bitterness as a result of something having gone wrong. I strongly suspect many marriages between people without a lot of prior experience have also ended in bitterness, though if I recall correctly not as many as in the former circumstance.</p>
<p>We have had many things go wrong between us, my wife and I. But now that we have some years on the marriage, I see the issue isnt really about having things right at first. It seems to be about having many things wrong and then working hard together to make them right-- no matter what. What would make me bitter is having someone who was so selfish she didnt seem to work as hard as I, or didnt seem to care as much. But if I have someone who really cares, I honestly don’t think we need to share the same culture or even speak the same language and we are both going to have a pure blast. It does not matter how the woman looks, or how good she is in bed, though these things may help a bit initially. If she is not good at something, its fine because I know she cares enough to work very hard at getting good at it. I also know we are both going to have a great time learning about it and trying stuff out.</p>
<p>I have had problems with my wife that I thought were unsolvable (I know for a fact she has had similar problems with me). But I have seen it often the case that sharing the problem and seeing her working hard in response was endearing enough to cause me to just give up the whole issue. Ironically, when this happened the problem was often solved anyway. I do not believe in perfect marriages. We have had some terribly bumpy stretches along the road, and seen some awfully sad days-- I am talking sickness, death, difficulty of a wide variety. But looking back, I see the real important thing for me was always knowing that the other person was going to be there pushing hard for me, building life, and hoping for my best no matter what happened. I understand there are other ways of life out there, and that this one is not suitable to everyone. But I’d like some young person reading this to carefully consider giving this outlook a gander too. They may wish to adopt it for themselves, including saving themselves for marriage so that they and their spouse may stumble around artlessly, but openly and freely together, exploring this particular unknown area with each other for the very first time.</p>
<p>“Basically, those people didn’t have a problem with sex within a monogamous relationship. They had a problem with adultery.”</p>
<p>Actually, because lots of the relationships proved unfruitful, they practiced pre-marital, serial monogamy (which was later “enhanced” by the number of women who died in childbirth). So, in some sense, not very different than we have today, except they were very open about it, and they had higher rates of teen pregnancies and out-of-wedlock pregnancies.</p>
<p>The rate of STDs is uncertain (though thought to be substantially higher than today). Lots of older men with younger women.</p>
<p>jlauer; that is about the stupidest stereotyped response yet. (The part about being wired differently and therefore incapable of certain things). If I had said that Woman and Men were wired differently and that’s why woman are more emotional than men; and why they aren’t as good in management positions; woman on this forum would be trying to string me up by my “You know what”.</p>
<p>The fact is; YOUR husband happens to be a social ROCK. HIS wires are crossed. Not all men. There’s a lot of men in the world that are very good in social environments. Better at raising children than the mother. More sensitive to other’s feelings and opinions. Just like there are plenty of woman who are capable of being excellent CEO’s, pilots, etc…</p>
<p>You are correct that men and woman are wired differently. But fortunately, we all have the capability to be anything we want and to excel as we want. But in answer to the original question, “Why are parents so concerned about college kids having sex”? Maybe the answer isn’t that difficult. The OP uses the word “SO” as though parents are “Excessively” concerned. Maybe it’s as simple as A)Their set of morals and values are such that waiting to have sex is the preferred choice. Or B)They don’t want to see their child negatively affected by having casual sexual experience. Yes, it can be negatively affecting. Physically as well as emotionally. </p>
<p>Personally, I think the original questionis nothing more than something to stir a moral debate and to get a reaction. It’s no one’s business why a parent is or isn’t concerned about their college student having sex. The parents raise the child the way they think is right. The child will adopt some of the morals and values they were taught. They will also reject some of them. In the end, the child/student will have to make their own mind up. Having someone post the question as though parents shouldn’t teach their children anything about sex and let them do whatever “Feels Right” is stupid. If a person thinks this way, they go adopt all the kids you can from an orphange and teach them that way. That is your right. Just like it’s a parent’s right to teach their children differently if they so believe so.</p>
<p>I’m with mini. I’m very open about these things, and the kids are just appalled. They are so much more conservative than I am. My mother thinks it’s not fair.</p>
<p>I never made rules about kids being alone in the house. However, I did talk to S and his girlfriend because they were so young (14 & 15.) We were almost always here when they were, and they didn’t ever go up to S’s room, by choice, but I wouldn’t have thought anything about leaving the house if I needed to.</p>
<p>Girlfriend wasn’t happy at home and was almost always here. Her parents were quite nervous about this, but they were pleasantly shocked when I explained I had spoken to them together as a couple and told them they were way to young for anything serious, and they agreed.</p>
<p>Older teenagers who drive? What’s the point? If the kids are going to have sex, much more likely to use a condom in a bedroom than the backseat of a car. That said, I never found D and longterm boyfriend either in her room (a no-no in hs) or in any kind of state of undress or discomfort when I walked in. Our family room was pretty open. When boyfriend stayed over D had to be up by 1:00. Yes, I was still up. </p>
<p>Now that she’s in college she has never asked to bring anybody home. I’m pretty sure it would have to be someone she was serious about, and then I wouldn’t make any rules.</p>
<p>All that said, when D was 17 I called home ten minutes before we were going to be home when we were at dinner with neighborhood friends with younger children. The dad (No, not you TheDad, not such a savvy fellow) asked if it was to give them time to clean up the room. I said, “You mean the bra on the floor?” D was too composed at our call for this to be the case but I thought the other dad’s naivte priceless. (His daughter was seen publicly canoodling and it caused a bit of a scandal.)</p>
<p>jlauer95: Have had the exact same conversation with my H, except thaqt he just announces that a baby has been born. He doesn’t even get to the gift part on his own. See, you didn’t know you H was a social genius did you?</p>
<pre><code>I remember driving around w/my boyfriend as a jr. or senior in H/S, looking for a place to “makeout.” We never really found any good spots. That was back in the days when everything was baseball related. First base was kissing, second getting “felt up”, 3rd, felt “down”, home was intercourse. Were there bases that girls were supposed work toward? Anyway, I didn’t know anyone that was “getting to homebase”, but it was a Catholic school and I found out at my first reunion that there were indeed some homerun hitters. Opportunity and different social standards kept me a virgin throughout H/S, but things have certainly changed! My D says that although girls at college often have no problem giving out good night BJ’s, they won’t don’t want to go on the pill because they might gain weight and because their parents might find out! Go figure. I find that really disturbing.
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