<p>I lost more dates to that dratted “third date rule” that the guys had in NYC in the 70’s. From what I’m reading now, looks like my daughter will be contending with it all on the first date, ifyou can even call it that. Is there anybody out there who thought that maybe they didn’t want to jump in the hay after 3 dinners and a movie? It was expected and those guys acted as if they’d never heard the word “No.” It was tiresome.</p>
<p>dke, I hear you, and it went for the early 80’s as well!</p>
<p>TheDad: I was thinking the same thing. D danced every part in Nutcracker from Polichinelles to en point ensemble for Flowers and Snow. Never made it to a solo role. Nutcracker rehearsal was a post-Thanksgiving ritual that had us in town every year.</p>
<p>“It was tiresome.” Oh c’mon. Wasn’t any of it fun?</p>
<p>I remember an older mom talking to her late-teen daughter about the benefits of NOT sleeping with everybody and anybody. The point was that once you did THAT, the boys would avoid all the “preliminaries” which can be the most fun of all!</p>
<p>MM: our D’s had similar ballet paths. Mine did make it to a minor solo in Act II her senior year. She was, as I put it, the worst of the best in a large, competitive pre-professional company. I saw her company’s production for 73 straight shows…and I don’t believe that’s the parent record. But I can break it down in my sleep. <a href=“http://www.westsideballet.com%5B/url%5D”>www.westsideballet.com</a></p>
<p>Sure, Woody there was some fun there, too, but then the inevitable wrestling match would ensue which WASN’T fun!</p>
<p>TheDad: I looked at your link. Pretty impressive. D was promised a solo part (probably Spanish because she’s all arms, head, neck and attitude) but she decided to concentrate on AP Calc (math not her long suit), and she passed. She hated integrals but loved derivatives, and I don’t think she regrets her choice. Since she is in NYC she can take an occasional class, but is now, after taking two dance classes, doing yoga for her final gym requirement.</p>
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<p>I’m noticing the word “acted” above and reflecting on it. Some were better actors than others.</p>
<p>One guy pouted, after hearing “no” on a first date, “But I bought you dinner!”</p>
<p>He didn’t even get to dessert.</p>
<p>Gee, I’m from such a different world; I always paid my own way to avoid this issue. I’m a person, he’s a person, it seems like we both should pay. No obligation, no expectation. I often brought my own car and met people. That way I was not indebted for a ride. I felt more in control of my own destiny, too. The things people are saying remind me more of my mother’s descriptions of dating than my experience.</p>
<p>First husband I met in college where dating didn’t exist. What I am describing is the space between husbands.</p>
<p>There is also,what is to me, a strange vibe here that guys want sex and women resist, like an old Doris Day movie. I don’t think that’s quite the case any more.</p>
<p>Drosselmeir, </p>
<pre><code> Do you have any sons? If so, do they share your beliefs? If so, I have a really pretty, really special girl that they might want to meet someday!
</code></pre>
<p>Mythmom, </p>
<pre><code> I think that in the past woman have been a moral compass for society and it is true that this is being lost. How sad.
</code></pre>
<p>My experiences mirror Mythmom’s. I will encourage my own daughter to pay her own way too, so that there are so expectations of “favors” in return for dinner.</p>
<p>Also, I agree with MM’s last paragraph. I don’t think that it’s only a bunch of horny guys with resistant women either. Many girls and women are quite forthright about what they want.</p>
<p>On edit: How were women the “moral compass for society” Sarahsmom?</p>
<p>Hey wait a minute…I always paid for my own dinner! Old feminist here, no Doris Day. (which means that no guy was going to tell me when I should be having sex with him…on his timetable)</p>
<p>Sarahsmom - I have a son that shares in those beliefs, and my H and I have the same background experience as Drosselmeir. Now, after more than 30 years together, it’s still a very special connection. While this idea wasn’t voiced to our children as the only way - it was certainly voiced as a very successful path for our family.</p>
<p>I agree with the moral compass theory but I call it “gatekeepers”. I know its sounds old fashioned, but I still think that its the woman who’s going to put the brakes on vs. the man. Not that women will always put on the brakes, but i’ve met VERY few men who are willing to. Over time there are certain things that don’t change. IMHO.</p>
<p>WHen the guy (an office higher-up) took me to dinner, I was a new college grad making $5,600. per annum to his $85,000. I couldn’t afford the restaurant he chose. Warn your D’s about those situations, too. Obviously he was exploiting a power balance, but we didn’t have words like that in those days. </p>
<p>With wage peers or other college students, obviously each should pay their way today. If there’s a big disparity in income, but you want to go out with the guy, teach D’s to agree upon a restaurant in advance, not just to “go to dinner together”.</p>
<p>dke, I’m with you. I don’t think it’s old fashioned, or an outdated double standard… H has cautioned D (until she does the rolling-her-eyes-thing) that even “really nice guys” will generally see how far things can go, and they are frequently not thinking with the head on their shoulders when it comes to intimacy. (I liked the Big Ed/Little Ed example earlier in this thread!)</p>
<p>Hmmm…in my observation, ‘really nice boys’ really dislike stalking–and they don’t encourage or take advantage of girls they don’t want to spend time with. It’s not worth the hassle.</p>
<p>Sorry paying3. Circumstances vary. Guess I was reacting to the trend of thread.</p>
<p>I won’t bore brave readers with anthropological analysis, but I will say attitudes expressed her arose after that advent of agriculture and did not prevail for the 20,000 years before that. (Women as gatekeepers etc.) Things are changing and will continue to change because agriculture is no longer the basis of material culture for most people.</p>
<p>Actually, with the recent advent of commodities as precious economic resources, agriculture may regain some of it’s lost status in our world economy.</p>
<p>…at which point, we’ll grow food and no more restaurant dates!! :)</p>