With Drinking, Parent Rules Do Affect Teens' Choices

Parent Cafe
41

<p>TrueLove: If you didn’t have more than a hundred posts I’d just write you off as a ■■■■■. But the idea that there are actually people with your utter lack of common sense is nothing short of worrisome.</p>

<p>No one has broken any rules. Please either engage in real and mature discussion or go back to HSL where you undoubtedly belong.</p>

<p>Oh, and just curious - what have your parents told you and demonstrated to you with regards to alcohol consumption? If you tell me that you have never seen anyone, not even a legal adult, consume alcohol in your entire life you are either lying or have been sheltered to such an awful extent that I’m shocked you’re allowed to be on the Internet.</p>

42

<p>There’s a big difference between crazy parents that buy a keg for their teen’s parties, and parents who let their teens have some wine with the family spaghetti dinner.</p>

43

<p>I am third generation of never having drank any alcohol, nor smoking, nor taking any illicit drugs. We highly esteem health: physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. My dad is a physician, Stanford grad; mom is a teacher, Berkeley grad. No, I have never seen any adult in my family drink a drug. We lead a very disciplined and honorable lifestyle that is chock full of being high on Jesus Christ.</p>

44

<p>There are a lot of crazies in this world. Just hope your kid doesn’t meet one of them.</p>

45

<p>Old, all you can do is call names to those who live honorable lives? And the fact that you are picking on someone much younger than you speaks volumes about your character, or lack thereof.</p>

46

<p>What is disconcerting is that when families live life correctly, by the rules, their adversaries incite vitriol, bordering on hatred. It is as though rebels can’t tolerate themselves, their own behavior, and must strike out against good. Darkness really can’t tolerate light. Fascinating, but so sad for those stuck in mucky living. What is so bad about living so good? It really feels wonderful, guilt free. True freedom and joy. I love it!</p>

47

<p>When you come to Parents Forum you are debating as equals. Don’t pull the age crap now, otherwise stay in the HS forum.</p>

<p>Name calling? You don’t want to go down that road here. Go back and read your posts on this thread. What interesting insight have your shed on this thread, other than telling people that you live an honorable life and Jesus loving? You post the same stuff over and over again in your 100+ posts. </p>

<p>What speaks volumes about my character? I have raised 2 great normal girls - two productive, life loving, caring human beings. My girls also do not preach and tell other people how great they are or look down on other people. They have no holier than attitude. They are well liked by their peers, and well regarded by most adults.</p>

48

<br>

<br>

<p>Like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Samuel and David?</p>

<p>You know alcohol is dangerous</p>

<p>And yet, God considers it a blessing: Deu 7:13, 11:14, 14:26, 15:14,
16:13, 18:4, 28:51, 33:28, Judges 9:13. Ruth 2:14, I Sam 16:20, 25:18,
II Sam 16:2, I King 10:5, I Chron 12:40, etc., etc., etc.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Life is about gray, not black and white.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Why don’t you come back in 30 years after raising a family. We have the
perspective of experience; of actually living life instead of planning
in the abstract.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Matthew 5:22.</p>

49

<p>TrueLove: If nobody in your family for the past three generations has consumed alcohol then how do you know that it tastes bad? </p>

<p>Did Jesus say that alcohol tastes bad? When was that? Was that right after he made wine from water at the wedding in Cana of Galilee?</p>

50

<p>I am third generation of family that has done living correctly. I won’t need to come back in 30 years to re-evaluate anything. Staying true to life principles that work is the name of the game. I do not allow life to alter my views, to do so would be to have life dictate my principles. Nothing controls me but me. Period. Thus, I am fully responsible to live life correctly, no matter what forces come against me.</p>

51

<br>

<br>

<p>Strange religion that you practice. Mark 2:22, Luke 5:37, 38, John
2:3, John 2:10, John 4:46, Eph 5:18, I Tim 3:8, I Tim 5:23, Titus 2:3,
I Peter 4:3 disagree with your perspective on alcohol.</p>

<p>Matt 26:27 - 29 Jesus gives wine to his disciples and tells them to
drink in an annual ceremony. Are you keeping this annual ceremony
or is this a gray area for you?</p>

52

<p>Vicarious, you may have checkmated me on the Jesus/wine deal. Jesus probably just wanted to encourage celebration of marriage. Granted, alcohol is not inherently evil. People are. That is why we are constantly in need of being trained to do the right thing, even after birth! It is interesting that children do not need to be trained to do bad things, only good things. Meanwhile, I have tasted alcohol and it is disgusting!</p>

53

<br>

<br>

<p>Romans 5:12.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>1Ki 12:6 And king Rehoboam consulted with the old men, that stood before Solomon his father while he yet lived, and said, How do ye advise that I may answer this people?
1Ki 12:7 And they spake unto him, saying, If thou wilt be a servant unto this people this day, and wilt serve them, and answer them, and speak good words to them, then they will be thy servants for ever.
1Ki 12:8 But he forsook the counsel of the old men, which they had given him, and consulted with the young men that were grown up with him, [and] which stood before him:
1Ki 12:9 And he said unto them, What counsel give ye that we may answer this people, who have spoken to me, saying, Make the yoke which thy father did put upon us lighter?
1Ki 12:10 And the young men that were grown up with him spake unto him, saying, Thus shalt thou speak unto this people that spake unto thee, saying, Thy father made our yoke heavy, but make thou [it] lighter unto us; thus shalt thou say unto them, My little [finger] shall be thicker than my father’s loins.
1Ki 12:11 And now whereas my father did lade you with a heavy yoke, I will add to your yoke: my father hath chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.
1Ki 12:12 So Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam the third day, as the king had appointed, saying, Come to me again the third day.
1Ki 12:13 And the king answered the people roughly, and forsook the old men’s counsel that they gave him;
1Ki 12:14 And spake to them after the counsel of the young men, saying, My father made your yoke heavy, and I will add to your yoke: my father [also] chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.
1Ki 12:15 Wherefore the king hearkened not unto the people; for the cause was from the LORD, that he might perform his saying, which the LORD spake by Ahijah the Shilonite unto Jeroboam the son of Nebat.
1Ki 12:16 So when all Israel saw that the king hearkened not unto them, the people answered the king, saying, What portion have we in David? neither [have we] inheritance in the son of Jesse: to your tents, O Israel: now see to thine own house, David. So Israel departed unto their tents. </p>

<br>

<br>

<p>This completely contracticts your previous statement:</p>

<br>

<br>

54

<p>No contradictions here. I choose to live by Jesus’ dictums. The “old men” verses have to do with wisdom. It was assumed that with age comes wisdom. Not usually true in our era. I appreciate those of you who challenged my view on alcohol. But, I still would never encourage drinking it, as I wish to “avoid the appearance of evil” and “do not be filled with wine, but of the Holy Spirit”. It is questionable as to whether alcohol was used as communion. It was most likely grape juice that was slightly fermented. His intent was not to get anyone snockered, I bet.</p>

55

<br>

<br>

<p>The Bible is full of rules: do this, don’t do that, etc. Do you follow
those rules?</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Jesus poured out wine for his disciples at the Passover. Then he said
that he wouldn’t drink it himself until later. Do you know anything at
all about the Bible or do you just listen to what others say about it?</p>

<p>I have e-sword installed on my computer. I can do a word-study on wine
in a short period of time finding all of the hits in the entire Bible
and analyze all passages with the term. Have you ever done this? You
talk about Jesus Christ but you don’t seem to know anything about the
Bible. The wine into water is stuff kids learn at the elementary
school level in private Christian schools or in Sunday School. You
never did any of that?</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Let’s take a look at King David. God said that King David was a man
after his own heart in Acts 13:22. This is a man that saw a pretty
married lady, seduced her, killed her husband and then took her for
his wife. Who did a fairly bad job raising his kids. Would you call
him evil? In need of training? Of not doing the right thing?</p>

<p>Life is gray.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>There’s a lot of stuff that I can’t stomach. But last week I found a
Sutter Home Muscato. I haven’t had one of those since the 1990s as they
are quite difficult to find in my area. A very sweet white and not
terribly expensive. I wouldn’t say that all cars stink because I tried
driving a Pinto and the experience was horrible.</p>

56

<p>Eagle, what are you driving at?! Sorry, just had to bumper car ya! I do not get your car metaphor and how it applies to wine. Remember, drinking and driving are not a good mix.</p>

57

<p>Yes, as a matter of fact, I do abide by all of the 1000 or so laws. Don’t you? :)</p>

58

<br>

<br>

<p>The contradiction is that you claim to be free to do whatever you want
to do and then that you claim to live by Jesus’ dictums. You seem quite
unfamiliar with the Bible so I don’t see how you could do a credible
job with the latter.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>It is when it comes to raising kids. Parents still have more experience
than their kids do at raising kids. Of course now you’re saying that
the Bible is wrong because of the era. There’s a warning at the end of
the New Testament that apparently applies to you.</p>

<p>Someone with a little knowledge of the Bible would have used this
scripture about Wisdom.</p>

<p>Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good
understanding have all they that do [his commandments]:</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Well, the scripture before I Thess 5:22 says: Prove all things; hold
fast that which is good.</p>

<p>If you had gone through the exercise of proving all things so that you
could avoid the appearance of evil, then you would have come across this
little gem:</p>

<p>Ecc 2:24 [There is] nothing better for a man, [than] that he should
eat and drink, and [that] he should make his soul enjoy good in his
labour. This also I saw, that it [was] from the hand of God.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Well, that’s a strawman argument. Perhaps you could point out where
any parent suggested that their kids be “filled with wine”. There
are several passages in the New Testament that state that a good
person doesn’t take too much wine. That implies that they do take
some.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Let’s take a look at a few Bible Commentaries:</p>

<p>Gill: The design of this expression is to show, that his stay would be
very short: the cup he had just drank of, was the last he should drink
with them: he should drink no more wine at the passover; he had kept
the last, and which now of right was to cease; nor in the Lord’s
supper, for though that was to continue to his second coming, he
should be no more present at it corporeally, only spiritually; nor in
common conversation,</p>

<p>Clarke: Until that day when I drink it new with you - That is, I shall
no more drink of the produce of the vine with you; but shall drink new
wine - wine of a widely different nature from this - a wine which the
kingdom of God alone can afford. The term new in Scripture is often
taken in this sense. So the New heaven, the New earth, the New
covenant, the New man - mean a heaven, earth, covenant, man, of a very
different nature from the former. It was our Lord’s invariable custom
to illustrate heavenly things by those of earth, and to make that
which had last been the subject of conversation the means of doing
it. Thus he uses wine here, of which they had lately drunk, and on
which he had held the preceding</p>

<p>Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary: This ordinance of the Lord’s
supper is to us the passover supper, by which we commemorate a much
greater deliverance than that of Israel out of Egypt. Take, eat;
accept of Christ as he is offered to you; receive the atonement,
approve of it, submit to his grace and his government. Meat looked
upon, be the dish ever so well garnished, will not nourish; it must be
fed upon: so must the doctrine of Christ. This is my body; that is,
spiritually, it signifies and represents his body. We partake of the
sun, not by having the sun put into our hands, but the beams of it
darted down upon us; so we partake of Christ by partaking of his
grace, and the blessed fruits of the breaking of his body. The blood
of Christ is signified and represented by the wine. He gave thanks, to
teach us to look to God in every part of the ordinance. This cup he
gave to the disciples with a command, Drink ye all of it. The pardon
of sin is that great blessing which is, in the Lord’s supper,
conferred on all true believers; it is the foundation of all other
blessings. He takes leave of such communion; and assures them of a</p>

<p>Barnes: And he took the cup - That is, the cup of wine which was used
at the feast of the Passover, called the cup of “Hallel,” or praise,
because they commenced then repeating the “Psalms” with which they
closed the Passover.</p>

59

<br>

<br>

<p>You made an argument that you tasted one alcoholic beverage and it was
awful and suggested that all alcoholic beverages are awful. I was
making a demonstration of your fallacy using an automotive
analogy. I’m sorry that it was over your head. Perhaps you haven’t had
enough life experiences with cars.</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>I haven’t posted my beliefs. I generally don’t go around on message
boards wearing my religion on my sleeve. It’s frequently
inappropriate. Of course I’m completely free to discuss your religion
seeing as you splattered it all over a message board.</p>

<p>But since you mentioned 1000 or so laws, what is your take on this one?
It would seem to make going to college or public or private school
impossible unless you could get an acommadation where you could miss
a week of school every month.</p>

<p>Lev 15:19 And if a woman have an issue, [and] her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:20 And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean.
Lev 15:21 And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:22 And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even.
Lev 15:23 And if it [be] on [her] bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even.</p>

60

<p>Eagle, your responses give yourself away as a very insecure person. Relax my friend. You are very defensive. Have fun with this conversation. Your Old Testament references and interpretations by men do not in the least bit sway me. And your attempt at using the Bible against me will never work. I love God. I love His dying for me. And I love you in Christ’s Spirit. I hope you open your heart to Him who took your capital punishment. Jesus will sprinkle His love all over you and this board because He adores you, He made you. He loves you like no one can ever love you.</p>