<p>*That said, the drug use by both concern me-although 4 years sober is nothing to sneeze at. *</p>
<p>Addict lie. How do you know when an addict is lying? His lips are moving. While he may truly be clean (or not), I would still have serious concerns. And what was he arrested for? </p>
<p>His personality (spoiled, entitled, etc) along with his addiction would scare the bejeezus out of me. </p>
<p>He is and always will be…an addict.</p>
<p>It is wedding season here. After years of bridal drought we are intimately involved in 5 weddings!!! My take is this: Nowhere is it written that every wedding has to be huge and expensive. But this is your daughter. Is she only your daughter when she has her degree?</p>
<p>College does prepare one for a career (in some majors). College teaches kids how to think and evaluate. That being said…in my neighborhood (this is from a friend who lives here and knows of such things)there are some doctors and lawyers…some in the garment industry…and a lot of people who started businesses with only a high school or some college. They are successful. A four year degree wasn’t the pre requisite. </p>
<p>So, if are worrying about the ability to earn money…not so much. There is no rule on how much money has to be spent for a wedding…but blackmail (and that is what we are talking about) will ensure a very poor relationship with your daughter.</p>
<p>I can’t help but feel that this wedding thing is like a robbery of the OP. He’s being told that it’s his responsibility to pay for someone else’s decisions like it or not. If the wedding is so important, let them pay for it. I agree, they’ve only been together for a short period of time and should be focusing on slowing things down to develop their relationship. Even if his daughter does return to school, the future son in-law shouldn’t feel entitled to a free wedding.</p>
<p>@Sseamom, really? You dissected my whole life from one post 
I am not without mistakes obviously you did the math, but is that the goal? Is the goal that our children can only attain what we did? Does that mean as a parent I only need to do as much as my parents did for me? If that’s the case we would only be able to achieve what our previous generations did, correct? </p>
<p>Thanks for assuming so much though my parents died when I was 18 and I did screw up from 18 until 21 afer their death. I won’t talk about that here. </p>
<p>Yes, the expectation as you can tell was always to go to school, to give, nurture, and provide a enviroment where she could have opportunities and not have to struggle. My wife and I had over 80K in student loans by the time we were 30!! It took 8 years to pay them off I didn’t want that for her. She did just that until she was almost 19. Then started partying alot, doing drugs, then hard drugs, wrong crowd, then said she was a alcoholic, then the rehabs, etc there is alot more to this story. </p>
<p>She is doing much better I agree emphatically! That doesn’t mean I have to pay for a wedding for someone I don’t like when they have only known each other 11 months! Is that what love is? Shutting up, holding you tongue, and just going with the flow?</p>
<p>Like I said I could support this more if they waited and got some time under their belt. 2.5-3 years hit some bumps in the road, struggle a little, earn some stripes in the relationship. </p>
<p>My dream will always be the same Sseamom that she would finish school and I would love to help her with that. Why do I have to be 100% supportive of this? Explain that to me, please ;)</p>
<p>These are different issues. How much should parents pay for a wedding? However much they feel comfortable with, but the discussion should happen long before it’s an issue. My parents paid for the cake. Nothing else. Not a big deal because I’d known forever that I’d be paying my own way. So, nobody should judge OP or zooster if they have chosen not to contribute to any child’s wedding. </p>
<p>The initial issue had more to do with basing the decision to contribute on whether or not the child’s choices meet with parental approval.</p>
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<p>I think you have to separate out the issues here.</p>
<p>You should decide whether or not, and how much to pay for your daughter’s wedding, because she is your daughter.
That makes sense.</p>
<p>It does not make sense to say you will pay less if your daughter marries someone she only knew for 11 months, or has a mole, or has a bad history. Would you pay more if he went to an Ivy league school and had nice teeth? Why? Would you even know whether or not that guy was addicted to Ritalin during his college days and still is on it? Do you think his background would guarantee that he would not divorce her or cheat on her or treat her badly?</p>
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<p>I’m not sure why you started this thread when you already seem to have made up your mind that you are unwilling to pay for this wedding, which everyone here seems to agree is your prerogative.</p>
<p>“The initial issue had more to do with basing the decision to contribute on whether or not the child’s choices meet with parental approval.”</p>
<p>^^^ THIS.</p>
<p>First, let me start off by saying that I would NOT take money for my wedding from anyone. From everything I have seen of other people’s weddings, money most often if not always comes with some serious strings attached - expectations to be involved in the planning or give input (and if input is not taken being offended) or thinking that money = being able to dictate guests, etc. I am not interested in any of that. I am self-supporting and future husband and I will be paying for the wedding ourselves.</p>
<p>So, normally, I wouldn’t really care if a parent would not pay for the wedding. But it does seem very much that the not paying is a statement of not liking the groom and the daughter’s choice to marry him. I don’t know what kind of a person he is - according to OP he sound awful, but we are getting ONE SIDE of the story from a person who clearly had very different plans for his daughter, so I don’t know how objective he is, even if he is trying to be.</p>
<p>If I were the daughter, I would be offended. Family, or not family, I would not allow anyone to badmouth my husband to be or share their ‘concerns’ about how much they don’t like him. The only time I would welcome input is if they knew some sort of a fact that I for some reason didn’t. I would ask for the discussions to stop, and if they didn’t, it would absolutely affect the relationship with the parent and not in a positive way. According to OP it’s an expression of love and concern to criticize the fiance. I don’t see it that way and see how it would make the daughter upset. I wonder if it’s really about the money or about the ‘statement’ behind the money. She is a self-supporting adult, and it’s not up to dad to try to change her mind or get involved in her relationships - most people don’t really see the inner dynamics of a relationship anyways, never mind someone who talks to only one person in the couple and every couple months.</p>
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<p>This fiance is exceedingly presumptuous, overentitled, and rude. </p>
<p>Don’t blame OP for being reluctant to support the wedding on this ground alone. </p>
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<p>As much as it may not be/seem fair to some, it’s the parent’s money. Thus, the parent is fully entitled to base his/her support on expensive family milestones like a wedding. </p>
<p>More importantly, paying for a wedding implies endorsement of the relationship in many cultures so considering that, I don’t think it’s right to force/guilt parent(s) into supporting a wedding under circumstances/SO they have serious reservations about. </p>
<p>On the flipside, while highly entitled and shallow…the presumably adult child who wants to enter into such a marriage has the same adult right to express resentment and go so far as to cut off his/her own relationship along with those his/her future offspring. </p>
<p>Parent(s) must weigh if this consequence he/she could live with and likewise, the presumably adult child needs to weigh the consequence of cutting that parent(s) off from family/future children…especially considering doing so may mean he/she can’t call on her family for help with genuine family/kid emergencies in the future. </p>
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<p>FYI: I’ve known many unemployed engineering/CS graduates who were driving cabs or were otherwise under/unemployed for long periods. Plenty of them after the 2000-1 dotcom bust. </p>
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<p>Agree with Zoosermom, here. It’s up to each parental couple how much or if they will be paying for the weddings period. </p>
<p>Considering how paying for weddings is considered endorsing the relationship in many cultures, it’s also well within their rights. </p>
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<p>Those statements make me cringe and IMO, manifestly illustrate he’s not mature enough to be an adult, much less get married. </p>
<p>Expecting to rely on asking parents or others on a regular basis as he’s illustrating shows me he’s still acting like a spoiled overgrown kid, not a mature adult. </p>
<p>Love must really be blind here as most well-adjusted adults I know would run, not walk away from a date/SO who shows him/herself to be so fine with being so dependent on one’s parents/others without some shame. </p>
<p>Marriage is supposed to be a partnership between two well-adjusted adults who have their financial, maturity, and other acts together…not one or two individuals who are still acting like overgrown children. </p>
<p>Considering his earlier comment about the wedding being “OP’s responsibility”, this man is IMO, clearly not ready for marriage…or basic adulthood for that matter.</p>
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<p>+1. What is the point of asking for opinions when you’re clearly just looking for an echo chamber?</p>
<p>I would go with your initial inclination to give them a set amount of money towards a wedding that you feel comfortable with. To use however they wish. Wedding, go to school, whatever.
Wish her well, tell her you love her.
See if you can open her eyes to the type of relationship she is in and signing up for long term–what’s the balance in their relationship? She seems to be the more responsible one money-wise despite other poor choices (by her own admission he’s “the baby” and spoiled). It gets old being the “parent” when you need someone to count on.
I only mention this because I’ve seen that dynamic fail more than once. Never pretty.</p>
<p>I think the OP is listening and will be dragged, kicking and screaming, to doing what he already knows, which is to treat his daughter in the same way he will treat his other kids.</p>
<p>But he doesn’t have to like it and he doesn’t have to go quietly!</p>
<p>The parent should always retain the right to decide how they spend their hard earn money. If the OP wants to tie it to a college education, so be it. If he wants to tie it to whether the sky is blue, that’s his choice. Even if he has to change his mind. Life is about making tough decisions and adapting to changes. Especially when money is involved.</p>
<p>See if you can open her eyes to the type of relationship she is in and signing up for long term–what’s the balance in their relationship? She seems to be the more responsible one money-wise despite other poor choices (by her own admission he’s “the baby” and spoiled). It gets old being the “parent” when you need someone to count on.
I only mention this because I’ve seen that dynamic fail more than once. Never pretty.</p>
<p>Right…and his parents are aging. Once they’re gone who is he going to think is his safety-net. And if they’re saving so much, then why did he turn to his parents over the car repairs issues.</p>
<p>I think there’s some dishonestly going on. Who knows how long he’s really been clean. Your D has only known him for less than a year. He may want people to think he’s been clean that long because A) it helps get dates…B) it keeps his parents happy and helping.</p>
<p>lotsokids, I can totally see where you are coming from. I don’t even know your future SIL but the comment about “your responsibility” rubs me the wrong way. Also, he is using his family being so “traditional” as a reason; however, living together before marriage isn’t the traditional way of doing things, so I don’t buy his “traditional” line of reasoning. I see a lot of red flags regarding him, not the least of which is that he is in probation. </p>
<p>Regarding advice how to handle the situation, I agree 100% with JEM in post #44. Decide what you feel comfortable contributing, and offer that amount. Let us know how it goes.</p>
<p>The point of asking for opinions even after having seemingly made up one’s mind is that you never know when someone else may hit on something that simply never occurred to you. It could be a mind-changer.</p>
<p>*Also, he is using his family being so “traditional” as a reason; however, living together before marriage isn’t the traditional way of doing things, so I don’t buy his “traditional” line of reasoning.</p>
<p>I see a lot of red flags regarding him, not the least of which is that he is in probation*</p>
<p>YES!!! “Traditional adhering couples” don’t live together first…especially after knowing each other for less than 11 months (how long have they been living together?)</p>
<p>Again…WHY is he on probation? This seems odd to me. If he’s been CLEAN for 4 years, then what probation is 4+ years long??? And what is it for? Sounds serious since the length of the probation is more than a couple of years.</p>
<p>Oh…and I wouldn’t just believe what the D says is the reason that he’s on probation. He’s an addict, and addicts typically downplay their fault in various matters. Unless your D has actually seen the legal papers stating what he’s on Probation for, I wouldn’t believe the whole story.</p>
<p>I think that if you dig enough for information and use some critical thinking skills and analysis, you’re going to find many holes in his stories. Have him over a lot and ask a lot of questions…not necessarily particularly nosy questions…just ones that will likely expose the truth.</p>
<p>Again thanks I will keep you guys posted.</p>
<p>You could always do another scenario–I’ll pay for a modest wedding AFTER he’s off probation.</p>
<p>If I were in your shoes (and I’m not–nor is anyone else here) I guess I would offer to help with the wedding financially to the extent you are comfortable. It sounds like you aren’t comfortable with any amount given that you say it makes you sick to your stomach. If that’s the case, why not just tell this to your daughter. I think you haven’t said this because you do want to support her in some way. I’d put more faith in your D and future son-in-law–they have cleaned up their behavior and are supporting themselves. Maybe that’s the best they can do right now. I think you are angry with your D that she blew her opportunities and you’re having a hard time getting over that. I would too–believe me I would. However, I think that if you want to maintain a relationship you should look forward and be supportive and encourage her to continue on this path.</p>
<p>If you really are inclined to give something, maybe coming up with a plan for a wedding and a budget would help both you and your daughter to figure out how much you will contribute. Finally I think judging your future son-in-law is easy to do (and I agree that he sounds very entitled), but if you want to continue a relationship with your D, I’d judge him in private. Good luck with your decision.</p>