<p>I agree with some others that I’d set an amount to contribute. Well I hadn’t read the entire thread when I posted that. but I’m not sure that I would change my answer.</p>
<p>The guy may be trouble. Sounds like he is. But not helping any iwth the wedding won’t change her mind. She’ll probably still get married but she’ll hate you. If it were me, I’d say you can do a modest wedding for X. Rent the church or hall or do it at home, serve coffee and wedding cake, buy an inexpensive dress (not necessarily a wedding dress - there’s no rule that you have to wear a “wedding dress” to be wed, have attendants wear something they already own ( go or a theme for color, like everyone wear fall colors) and pay the preacher. </p>
<p>As to whether to keep college and wedding as separate, this is an interesting problem. When I was in college 35 years ago, I just kinda knew without being told, that if I got married, my parents, who were helping me with college would take the position that if I was adult enough to get married, I was adult enough to pay my own bills, and the help would stop. But you know, we never really talked about it and it didn’t become an issue so who knows what the answer would have been.</p>
<p>My daughters and I have watched the wedding dress shows too. And I told them that when I got married, my husband and I paid for our wedding (my parents offered, but they had done plenty for me). I rented a wedding dress. We had an afternoon wedding and a reception with light hors d’oerves and coffee and tea and punch. Flowers were minimal. I bought the bridesmaid’s dresses, but they were made by a family member and not too expensive. I know even that would cost more these days, but I’ve been to a lot of weddings that cost tens of thousands of dollars and lasted six months, while we’re rocking along 25 years later.</p>
<p>If it has always been understood that you expect her to go to and finish college and she has chosen not to, have you discussed this? It seems to me that you don’t accept the situation. Maybe it’s not meant to be for her and if so, you need to accept that first before you could move on and give her a wedding.
I think you have every right to refuse. Your daughter is very young but if they are grown up enough to be working and getting married, they should pay for most of their own wedding, IMO. We helped mds recently, but pretty minimally and the helping was their wedding gift from us.</p>
<p>Sorry, bad edit, I was thinking of the Dad accepting drinking and drug use in his daughter. A parent does not want to accept and condone and does want to ‘fix’ it, but how to fix someone else is a mystery. Who knows if my friend who appeared to do the right thing really did, maybe the kid would have turned around on his own. My friend whose kid is still messed up tried many things, too. Nothing “took.”</p>
<p>I don’t think that Dad of the family I knew back in the day was successful in his disowning, and though his son was gay, he was also into drugs and was stealing from the family. I have no way to know which reason was the final straw or to know what that Dad was thinking, only how it appears to others in our group.</p>
<p>Romani and I KNOW that the parents’ income won’t be used on FAFSA if she marries. That has not been her or my argument. </p>
<p>But do YOU have ANY IDEA how high her EFC will be since they are a childless couple earning $75k? This is NOT the same as when parents have a CHILD that goes to college. The assumpion when a SPOUSE goes to college (and there are no dependents) is that a good chunk of income can go towards COA. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t be surprised if her EFC is $25k or more if she marries and only her and her H’s incomes are used.</p>
<p>Would it be too manipulative to offer to pay more if they delay the wedding til after she graduates from college or at least after a 24 month engagement? At least that would buy some more time to likely expose the fiance.</p>
<p>Why hasn’t the OP said what the fiance is on probation for???</p>
<p>^ I don’t blame the OP for that. Posting a thread, asking for opinions, sharing information, doesn’t mean you owe people all related information. That’s pretty intimate and private. I’d actually encourage the OP to keep that one to himself. I understand you’re trying to help M2CK, and usually more information is helpful. IMO this is one instance where I think it’s understandable not to share.</p>
<p>What we have done is given our children a set amount of money for the wedding. The deal was if they spent over this amount, it would come out of their pockets. If they spent less, then they could keep the difference. This way they could prioritize how that money would be spent. We gave them a fairly modest amount (for this part of the country) and they both came in under budget. </p>
<p>By doing this, we were not emotionally invested in their wedding decisions. So, for this reason, I’d encourage you to do something similar. Say, “I am giving you this amount. Use it anyway you want for the wedding, but that is all there is for this wedding.” Simple and clean. </p>
<p>And you won’t feel used (in having to pay for an exponential number of his family members). Those kinds of mismatched numbers could make anyone feel taken advantage of.</p>
<p>And I"ll join in the chorus in being concerned by the entitled attitude of the boyfriend. Have you been able to discuss this concern with your daughter? Does it bother her? Does she expect him to change?</p>
<p>blueiguana-thank you for posting about your son and your relationship with him. A volunteer at the church where I work buried her son who died of cancer last year. He’d been clean only a short time before he died after a lifetime of addiction. The love in her voice and her eyes as this 80-something told me about her son and how he could fix anything, tell the greatest stories, and once made her stop her car so he could give a homeless man the coat he was wearing was so touching. Not once she she refer to his drug use or his being a “druggie” or his ill-advised (very young) marriage. Just love. She told me that while she’d never let on, she’d miss him the most of any of her kids.</p>
<p>I know it pained her that he lived for 30 years as an addict and never quite got his life together. But there was never a mean tone in her voice when she talked of him, before AND after he got clean. I guess that’s where I’ve been coming from all day in my replies. I wish you and your son the best.</p>
<p>lotsokids, I fully understand your reticence in the situation that you describe. I would be wary too. You must feel like a “bubble in a briar patch” where either direction could be perilous. I am assuming at this point that furthering her education is off your D’s radar screen, and that the relationship has taken center stage in her life. However disappointing, I think fighting that battle is fruitless. If you were paying for her college expenses, then why not take a comfortable portion of that money and contribute to a modest wedding. I would pay no mind to what the boyfriend or his family expects - this is your decision and your decision alone. </p>
<p>I take from your username that you have other siblings to provide for. Perhaps this could give you with some leverage when informing your daughter of the amount you will contribute. Hopefully, she will understand that you have other college tuitions and related expenses to absorb. Personally, I agree with your thought process and also would not have taken kindly to his entitled attitude about your responsibilities regarding a wedding. This attitude seems immature to me and does not bode well for his assuming the responsibilities that marriage entails.</p>
<p>Not the dad’s problem how much the couples EFC is, it is the couple’s problem what their EFC is since we all agree that there’s nothing the dad can or should do to try to stop the daughter from marrying the boy. So if they do marry, they are now fully adult and the father is under no obligation to pay tuition. They are married. You don’t get any more adult than that. They will figure it out. I think this is all kind of an odd debate since I paid for my own college (masters degree) and it was the local commuter college, but once she marries why should the dad pay for her college? Who cares how much her EFC is?</p>
<p>I do think the dad should chip in for a wedding but only if he was gonna do that anyway and totally don’t blame him for being a bit ****y about it but yup he will regret making a difference between the kids (dude if you chip in 5k for this girl you are morally stuck chipping in 5k for the other two.)</p>
<p>Presuming an AGI of about $60000 per year (based on gross income of about 75k) the EFC is about 13900 with one student attending. About 8300 if both are attending (per student).</p>
<p>One, I wonder what their sponsors (or the like) think about the engagement. Typically you are advised to stay out of relationships for a year from sobriety but clearly the year isn’t a magic number (even if truly sober). There is a saying that addicts don’t have spouses, they have hostages. </p>
<p>Two, OP you mentioned you hoped your daughter wouldn’t hold it (lack of approval/lack of enthusiasm) against you vis a vis grandkids etc but I think since you admit to having sort of a “merit based” system ongoing there than that is likely what you will find coming back your way.</p>
<p>Three, I do think it’s worth saying “We don’t know him very well, we know you are head over heels, but we have concerns about sobriety and stability. We want you more than anything to be happy and successful and truly hope BOY is a fabulous partner to you in all ways. What’s the rush…”</p>
<p>Four, having known lots of entitled folks he’s probably counting on an inheirtance when his folks kick off.</p>
<p>If he’s actually counting on it, that further illustrates what I feel are red flags regarding his low levels of maturity and financial responsibility. </p>
<p>Most mature financially responsible people regard inheritances as unexpected bonuses that’s nice to get, but not something necessarily “deserved” or more importantly, something to plan one’s financial future upon before receiving it. </p>
<p>I also find the idea of eagerly waiting for older relatives to die off for the sake of gaining a potential inheritance to be very ghoulish personally*.</p>
<p>Especially if we’re talking a family with multiple siblings as was implied by the fiance being the youngest. Would be interesting to see how his parents and those siblings view the youngest’s “counting on the inheritance” if that’s what he actually feels. </p>
<ul>
<li>A reason why I’ve had conflicted feelings over an otherwise good song on this theme from a favorite poppunk band:</li>
</ul>
<p>Agree with whoever said they shouldn’t even be in a relationship this early in recovery. I really think dad should save his money for legal fees to extract the daughter from the bad marriage two years from now (and if his family has money, please GOD do not let there be grandchildren to be held hostage). Also praying that they are good for each other, find their way and both stay sober. What a mess and good luck, OP. No hard feelings sseamom, good debate all.</p>
<p>I too am worried about the co-dependency issues, and if they are actively in recovery and have sponsors.</p>
<p>Love should be unconditional, but money rarely is. As parents, we walk a fine line between giving our kids what they need and not all that they want. I can understand paying something towards it, but that doesn’t mean they have to get everything they want. </p>
<p>There are a lot of complicating factors here. I don’t think the OP needs to make a decision immediately. Maybe an honest “I’m not sure yet, I need to think about this” is in order to buy the OP some time with this.</p>
<p>“OP- a little tip- stop paying the younger kids for grades. You may not believe me, but you will be avoiding a BOATLOAD of trouble if you inculcate in them the desire to do well academically for its own sake, rather than for the cash.”</p>
<p>I don’t think there is anything anything wrong with OP paying his kids for good grades. My parents paid me for my good grades. My husband’s parents paid him for good grades. We pay our kids for their good grades. My sister pays her kids for good grades. My BIL pays his kid for good grades. And it works! Our family hasn’t had any problems with it. IMO paying for good grades is just like having a job , doing well and getting a paycheck.
It teaches the kids that if you put in time and effort you can be rewarded. Unlike people who give their kids allowances for breathing… Which is a different topic entirely…</p>
<p>OP - Did the BF spend any time in Jail and that’s partially why he’s been sober for 4 years?</p>
<p>My kids got the same message about grades from their parents that H and I both got from ours: “your reward is doing well; your reward is learning. That’s what you’re supposed to do.” If they need an extrinsic reward for hard work – if learning alone isn’t considered a payoff-- than I’m confused about what the real goal was.</p>
<p>OP, had you always planned on paying for a wedding (sorry, I haven’t read the whole thread)? Is your reluctance only because of her choices? The choice to go to rehab seems like a step in the right direction ( I could understand your complete reluctance if she was still involved in unhealthy behavior). </p>
<p>What if this is her true soul mate? She will always know you never thought she and him measured up in your eyes…is it worth it? </p>
<p>My parents weren’t happy with my choice in a spouse, thought I was too young…all the usual. 3 of my siblings that had the “big weddings” and well educated partners are now divorced. I have been happily married for over 30 years. We never once received an anniversary card (because we eloped based on their disapproval and they somehow felt jilted???) and that was hurtful.</p>
<p>Please try to think about this in terms of your lifetime relationship with your daughter. Pay for what you can ( if this was always what you had planned on doing). Don’t penalize her because you don’t like him. I don’t think this is about $.</p>