50 rapes in three years by just one sports team? I know they got rid of Art Briles and Ken Starr but this is a problem about culture. A culture that a university condones that could allow this sort of behavior to go unchecked.
I think Baylor’s punishment should make Penn State’s punishment look even more like the slap on the wrist that it was. It should make the Penn State punishment look like a gift.
**Highlights of Penn State’s punishment: **
My proposed Baylor punishment:**
The NCAA should cripple that program. Not only was the administration at fault like in the Penn State case, but the students were at fault to. If you play football at Baylor and you have 30 teammates who have raped a woman, there is no way that you simply did not know. The players all knew, and they tolerated it. Just today, another Baylor player got a restraining order against him for violence against a woman! It cannot be condoned. Make an example out of the Bears.
To answer my original question, NO WAY I send my daughters to Baylor. Certainly not before a significant punishment.
Wow, I wouldn’t want to send ANYONE to a school that advocates hitting people who disagree with them or have a different point of view! That’s really awful PR, IMHO. What happened to civilized discourse and agreeing to disagree? Hitting people is supposed to get them to agree with you and change their opinion? Wow!
I have a male relative graduating from their med school–hopefully he is still the sweet young man I’ve always known.
I wouldn’t send any child - daughter or son - to Baylor. When the adults in charge have so little moral integrity and are willing to overlook all manner of heinous behavior as long as the football team is winning, it sends a clear and ugly message to students about their value system. Beyond the physical safety issue, I would hate to have my child adopt the values displayed by Baylor’s leadership.
You keep thinking Baylor has turned the corner and is getting its’ act together and then something else happens. I understand having pride for your school but at some point you have to take a step back and look at it objectively. You would think that by now that they’d get this isn’t something marketing spin and a positive message can paper over.
Hope they get on the right path soon, don’t think they are on it yet.
One thing to keep in mind … Baylor isn’t the only school that “tolerates” this behavior, Baylor just got caught. I would wager my life savings that this same behavior (and toleration) goes on in every NCAA Division I school. Every. Single. One. Baylor makes national headlines more than others because of its Baptist roots and its affiliation with Ken Starr.
Now, would I send my daughter to Baylor? Yes. I will send her anywhere she wants to go and we can afford. Would it be my first choice? Probably not.
I wouldn’t want my daughter or my son going to Baylor for a variety of reasons. I don’t think it’s worth the $$ for sure. My moderately lib kid wouldn’t even visit and it’s within a day’s driving distance. She’s seen the town of Waco many times and feels it would be more of a punishment to have to live there for four years.
Baylor has a lot of problems to fix-- the biggest being how to fix a campus and even religion wide culture problem that is so fixated on appearances that it ignores fundamental problems within the system at the price of maintaining appearances.
But honestly-- some of the kids we know who are headed there will fit right in with all the drama that Baylor has going on.
I would not let my daughter apply to 3 colleges. Baylor, Darthmouth and Penn State. I think Baylor is going to take a big hit over the next few years, and they should. They clearly favored winning football games over woman’s safety at the school, and the comments by the Woman’s basketball coach show as long as it not their daughter, winning is more important. I will gladly furnish my address to any Baylor alumni who wants to (try to) hit me in the face, I for one wont be bullied by anyone.
Well…once upon a time, I knew the family of the new head football coach at Baylor. (They lived in NYC for most of his childhood.) They are a close knit, religious (Evangelical Protestant) family. His dad was a quasi-minister. (He was ordained but his day job was running the athletic program at a private school.) He’s still friends with some of the other “kids” who grew up in our neighborhood. I can’t imagine him letting a player get away with sexual abuse. I’d like to think choosing him as its new coach is a strong indication that Baylor’s culture will change.
@3puppies I’m not saying that rape is acceptable. It’s not. But I am saying that it is more widespread than Baylor (all those “hostess” programs). Baylor got caught. Other schools either haven’t gotten caught yet or their stories were swept under the mat.
And, IMHO, the fact that the Baylor scandal is now out in the open sheds more scrutiny on the program, which could in fact make it a safer environment than attending University of State where it just hasn’t come to light yet.
Punish the people who committed the crimes not the entire university and community. If U officials covered up the crimes then they are on the hook to. If not, they did nothing wrong. We have a justice system in this country, right? We have police and AD’s, right? If they can make a case then bring the responsible parties to court to face their accusers in a fair trial and let a jury of their peers decide their fate.
Would I send my D’s to B if I had D’s? Yes. If I had raised D’s they would know by college age not to be victims and not to live their lives in fear. If B was the right school for them they would go to B if they wanted to.
The school does not advocate hitting people if they do not disagree with something. That was the comment of the lady’s BB coach. She doesn’t speak for the whole school or community. If my neighbor robs a bank they don’t put the whole neighborhood in jail because we condone it. Justice must be based on fairness and justice begins when you punish the parties that committed the crimes that society sets up as boundaries.
The broader point is how people react to things and I have taught my sons, I do not have D’s, to not make excuses and to take responsibility for their actions. They are not victims of bad things that might happen because they over come those things. I am sure someone will accuse me of condoning violence or rape or whatever but my point goes more towards dealing with problems and rising above victimhood.
No, but not so much related to Art Briles and the football program. Mostly because its overpriced for the education you get, Waco is crummy town, and all my life I’ve witnessed terrible behavior by their fans.
A few year back we actually had a college intern stay the summer with us and she went to Baylor. This was about the time my daughter was starting to look at colleges and she told us to not let her go to Baylor. I didn’t press too much because we had no intention of doing so, but now I wish I had pressed a bit for the reason. She had mentioned a few times how unsafe the area directly around campus was (I knew that already - its a bad part of town).
to add to my post - I also know some great people who graduated from there and some really good kids who are currently at Baylor. It’s just not my cup of tea.
I also think Art Briles is a terrible person and I doubt he ever works again in sports.
I would not let my daughters apply to Baylor. The oldest, however, reads the news and keeps up to date with current events, and she would not let her little sister apply to Baylor, either. Worth noting that “eh, they just got caught” is a pretty offensive way to hand-wave disgusting, repulsive behavior.
It is of course possible that because of this attention, things will improve, but the coach’s comments and threats of violence, above indicates to me and others that the culture of denial remains.
You were wagering that this obscene level goes on al all D1 schools?
I certainly am not naïve enough to think Baylor is the only school that has a problem with rape. But I think it is a gross exaggeration to think that this is tolerated at every school. Alabama has a top rated football program, and I recall they kicked a couple players off the team when they were falsely accused of rape.
Further, they have an athletic director who gets it.
“We spend an inordinate amount of time trying to educate our coaches and administrators that these are the processes to follow when bad things happen,” Battle said. “So far, we’ve done a reasonably good job of doing that.”
I am certainly not a fan of Alabama, especially football - but I know a lot of people here at CC love what 'Bama has done with respect to giving full tuition for top students across the country.
But I don’t think its fair to suggest that every single NCAA Division I school tolerates this the same way Baylor did.