I never claimed anyone had a license to rape. I suggested to consider avoiding 1% of campus males. You suggested not to send your daughters to Baylor at all and avoid 100% of Baylor males. If anyone’s guilty of victim blaming, it’s you(why did they go to Baylor at all?).
I’m not just talking about not sending your daughters to Baylor because of the prospect of them being sexually assaulted. I’m talking about not sending your daughter to a school that is now known for NOT protecting girls if they were raped. I’m talking about not sending your daughters or even your sons to a “Christian” school where football and money comes before protecting female students.
It might be hard to avoid the jocks especially if the culture of the campus is the jocks are above the law. I don’t think anyone is going to bother to even attempt to answer my question which was do we have a justice system in this country or not? You know, laws? Courts? Police forces? DA’s? Why don’t we just punish the people who raped if they are proven guilty in a court of law? Why not just punish the people who covered up the rapes so that the jocks could score TD’s and dunk basketballs?
The problem with trying to punish the whole U by taking away money and scholarships for the jocks and all that is that it presumes that that will teach everyone involved a really big lesson. And, after learning that lesson they won’t condone rape again. I don’t think anyone things rape is okay. I think that lesson can be accomplished by putting some jocks in jail and maybe a few other people with them. I don’t know how many people B should fire, it would not surprise me if most of the people at B didn’t know about all this, Art Briles did, and he has been fired. I doubt seriously he ever coaches again. I don’t know if Briles and others just didn’t believe they accusers or what. But, again, that is why we have cops and DA’s and so forth to let them sort this stuff out.
@#39,
So the athletic trainer was basically turned into a prostitute? She paid for her tuition with silence? And she agreed to that? Something tells me there are extenuating circumstances to that whole story. That solution is odd, if you ask me. I realize victims are sometimes afraid to testify and all that but if that is the case how did it turn into well … if you pay my tuition … I won’t mention it anymore? That doesn’t make any sense either. That had to be a weird compromise.
Let the courts sort it out.
Fire and/or put in jail anyone who covered it up or raped.
Simply as that.
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It’s not punishing the school or Baylor students. It’s punishing the football program. If that punishment impacts other parts of university as collateral damage, oh well.
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So the only punishment for Penn State should’ve been Jerry Sandusky getting arrested, yes or no?
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The victims are students too. The time it would take to go through the legal system would be a significant distraction away from classes. In addition, only 6 out of every 1000 perpetrators will spend a day in jail. The odds of finding success through disciplinary hearings is probably a little higher (unless you were raped by a football player at Baylor).
No. All the people who knew what was going on and did nothing should also be jailed. If the information was reported to the police and the police didn’t investigate then they belong behind bars also. Women, kids and men have a right to be safe. No one is arguing against that.
As far as jailing people, start with Ken Starr. The biggest load of BS is the much repeated saying “Football builds character”. Jock parents just love spouting that one. Full disclosure, I played football and all it built was middle age health problems.
@GoNoles85 You believe that the institution of Penn State should’ve received no punishment?
Universities and corporations are inanimate objects. They can’t be punished. The university didn’t rape anyone.
Yes or no. Do you believe that institution of Penn State should’ve received punishment for creating the environment that allowed Jerry Sandusky to sexually abuse boys for decades?
I mean, it’s just lunacy. Universities and corporations cannot be punished, or at least should not be punished? If corporations can have free speech under the Citizens United ruling, they can be punished. My goodness.
I won’t go as far as GoNoles85, but universities and for profit corporations are different animals. Corporations have shareholders, who at least theoretically have some responsibility for oversight. Universities don’t have shareholders. The closest people to shareholders for a public university might be all the residents of the state.
Frightening logic.
When the mob wants revenge it really doesn’t matter who gets caught in the crossfire. You might as well just get out of the way. The mob will chant, march, scream, raise their pitchforks to high up in the sky.
Shareholders elect a corporate board of directors. The BOD hires executive managers. The executive managers hire line managers. The SH’s are just resource providers. Holding the SH’s culpable for the actions of the corporate officers or line managers or EE’s is patently unfair.
Not that that matters. What does fairness have to do with justice? Nothing when the mob wants justice. Maybe the leader of the mob hates men. Maybe the leader of the mob hates everyone. Who knows. It is hard to make a case against the guilty parties so lets just hold other people responsible because they cultivated a culture of badness. By that logic, sue the parents if junior steals a bike since it is the parent’s fault.
I thought we had a justice system in this country?
Guess not. And, to answer the OP’s question again, I wouldn’t teach my D’s to be victims. Bad things happen to everyone. Be smart and avoid risky situations. Don’t put yourself into a bad situation. If my D’s wanted to go to B and B was the right school for them they would have my blessing. I don’t hate Waco, TX or the other people in Baylor. The football program was out of control and the U has taken measures to get it back in line. And, I’ll say it again, men, women and children have a right to safe.
More denial from Briles:
http://deadspin.com/art-briles-writes-letter-explaining-how-hes-a-great-guy-1792911011
He’s either lying or completely and utterly inept as a head coach. If this is damage control, it’s pointless. His reputation is beyond repair IMO.
It really bothers me when people want to punish an entire organization for the faults of a few. Baylor is a pretty large school and I imagine there are some great profs, some great math kids, music kids, poli sci kids etc. If my kids wanted to go to Baylor or Penn State I would have no qualms but yes we are definitely in a odd period of history where cutting down the whole tree because of one broken branch is not uncommon. Makes me sad for all the students, profs and administration who are going about their business with all this noise in the background. What do you call it? Irrational exuberance?
roethlisburger, you can avoid them all together, don’t go to Baylor, that way you don’t have to avoid any subgroup. There are plenty of great schools without football, Vassar, Skidmore, Wellesley College for example.
I ran into a parent of a hockey player from our program at a store and he was wearing Penn State garb, and the first thing that came to my mind was, your school looked the other way while an assistant football coach sexual assaulted kids. I didn’t say anything, but thats what came to my mind. If you choose to go to Baylor, a lot of people might have the same reaction I had, so consider that if choosing Baylor.
I agree with Ak that I do think about the Sandusky rapes whenever I see the Penn State logo. I would have a hard time sending my child to that school, even though people outside of the football program and administration did nothing wrong.
And thankfully there are thousands of colleges in the US to choose from so one can pick whatever exclusion criteria they like.Anyone could post “Would you send your kid to XYZ” and I’m sure some posters would say “yes because” and others would say" no way because."
as anyone who has read more than one of my posts would likely guess, it would not be my first choice. but if one of them really wanted to go, i would reluctantly concede. it’s their education; not mine.
with that said, while I agree all manner of bad things go on at big-time football schools precisely because of the culture that surrounds big-time college football, some schools are worse than others.
Baylor, currently, seems to be steeped in that Barry Switzer/Oklahoma Sooner culture of the 1980s, when the football dormitory was considered the single most dangerous place in all of Norman Oklahoma. Gang rape, drug rings, automatic weapons discharged, etc. etc.
It takes an aggressive and purposeful change in the tone at the top to fix this sort of thing. The comments by the W’s bb coach are quite telling.
What they need is a thorough house cleaning there, starting at the top.
This does happen though. In the 80s and 90s, before Washington’s football demise from which they’ve only recently recovered, there were routinely problems on campus involving the football players.
I remember a guy - Le Lo Lang - who played there and did a stint with the Broncos. His nickname on campus was “Date Rape Le Lo”. I kid you not. Washington was really good in those days - the recruiting focus wasn’t taking character into account as much. Corey Dillon, who had a great career in the NFL, had a rap sheet two miles long by the time he started at Washington. I know; I’ve seen it. Fortunately as it turned out he kept his nose clean and appeared to have grown up some in college. But the fact that he was brought in with that extensive criminal background tells you something about what matters in big time sports. And then there was the story of the starting QB in the late 80s. I can’t identify him or go into it too deeply for legal reasons, but the cover up of what that kid did to an incapacitated girl on Greek Row, and then to her boyfriend later that evening, is truly stomach turning stuff, and he never answered for it. Not one single repercussion.
I’m glad that mine will have avoided all that crap. As an institution, top flight football and basketball on the men’s side have completely outgrown their affiliation with university. Depending on how you want to look at it, they are either a glorified farm system for the NFL/NBA, or they are the entertainment division/profit center of the university. But these programs are a long way from the old ideal of the student-athlete. Sure, shyt happens everywhere, even Harvard. But it happens more at the Baylors of the world.
Eh. NESCAC football is just fine for me. I watched Middlebury play at Wesleyan a few years back. Wesleyan has this field right smack in the middle of campus called Andrus. It is by legend the oldest continuously used football or athletic field in the country - something like that. Anyway, they prop up bleachers on both sides, they fence off the rest, cars pull onto the surrounding grass for tailgating, kids watch from the hillside. It’s all very intimate and takes place in the shadows of some of Wesleyan’s most beautiful buildings. It’s all alumni, faculty, students and family. Nobody is talking trash to anybody. No fights or drunken excess. I remember looking out at the whole thing walking down Foss Hill and thinking to myself, “This is the way it’s supposed to be. This is the ideal.” At least I think so.