A couple of studies on athletes and rape:
http://www.wpr.org/student-athletes-commit-rape-sexual-assaults-more-often-peers
http://www.medicaldaily.com/college-athletes-sexual-assault-rape-myths-388585
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/29/the-disturbing-truth-about-college-football-and-rape/
https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/articles/2016-01-07/the-connection-between-college-football-and-rape-on-campus
I would not let a son attend Baylor.
Just google news for college athlete rape and you’ll know how this percentage is alaramingly higher than rest of the population. You’ll also know that no college is safe and you’ll also know that not one incident happened on Baylor campus or in their dorms.
@GoNoles85 , sadly, I think you’re wrong. I wish you weren’t. Even just reported cases would challenge your assertion that this is an outlier problem. If we could ever get our hands around the unreported cases, I think the number would be staggering.
Again, I haven’t conducted a study. I freely admit this is my general perception, shaped largely by what I read and having a few good friends who are county prosecutors.
I’m at work but scanned the first link @mamalion posted and the author of that article was fair and balanced in the parts I read and specifically said it is unfair to lump all athletes into the bad apple pool. However, if her assertion that athletes on campus rape and assault at “six times” the normal student body does I am in fact wrong in a big way.
I would find that disparity to be shocking. I think she was citing another researcher’s work. I’ll be blunt. If the disparity is that high then yes campus culture plays a role in campus rape by jocks and it is not being handled right. The jocks are literally getting away it because they generate revenue and no one holds them accountable. But, it is hard for me to believe the rate is that much higher for jocks vs non-jocks. I’ve never said on any message board jocks are angels. I’m not an excuses guy. You do the crime you do the time.
Go- are you shocked that the NFL has more of a problem with partner and child abuse than SHRM (the society for human resources- a major association for HR and Talent management professionals)? Are you shocked that there are players who need counseling not once, and not twice, but on a continuing basis that you shouldn’t punch your GF or fiance or wife so hard that she blacks out?
Most professional organizations do not need specific policies around spousal abuse or smacking your kid with a tree branch. Most professional organizations do not need to figure out a disciplinary strategy for how to handle a talented employee who gets violent at home (or in a hotel elevator- captured on tape).
This is reality.
Why are you surprised that campus athletes engage in violent and criminal behavior more than a-capella singers, or the students who organize the Red Cross blood drives???
Because I know a lot of high school athletes. Granted, not all of them played sports in college and a far lesser percentage got near the NFL, NBA or MLB. But, for example, both my sons played football for four years in high school and I knew every kid on the team and every kid before that in youth football. They were normal kids who worked hard to play a sport. They probably did have a lower GPA than the average student but otherwise they were normal kids. I also follow college football closely and out of the 85 scholarship athletes on the football team at any one time about 83 of them are good human beings.
Go, I appreciate your willingness to reconsider your position. Of course there are good people who are athletes, but there is something about sports culture on campus (like frat culture) that gives permission to very bad behaviors.
You say “some of them are bad apples no question about it” and yet somehow, you dismiss the notion of a culture that enables rape at Baylor. Are you familiar with the rest of the saying? It doesn’t say “a few bad apples should be looked at as isolated incidents.” The saying is "a few bad apples spoils the bunch.
Other athletic programs do not have this same issue to the extent that Baylor does. More than 50 allegations over the course of 5 years is not common place. There is obviously a problem that is happening at a much bigger scale.
Outliers? YES, Baylor is certainly an outlier compared to other athletic programs and should be punished severely because the amount of rapes that have taken place is far above and beyond what other programs experience. This conversation is not just about sexual assault as part of college in general or as part of sports in general. This is about a specific university that has let players abuse women without punishment. You’re making the mistake of thinking about this in broad terms about athletes in general
Just to restate the numbers :
FIVE GANG RAPES
32 RAPISTS ON THE FOOTBALL TEAM (even just as accusations, this is absurd)
51 RAPE ALLEGATIONS
all on ONE team.
FWIW: To speak about athletes in general, one study says that 54% of male college athletes have admitted to raping their partners.
https://www.rt.com/usa/345383-half-college-athletes-admitted-rape/
@ Post #85 (how ironic)
This is not about the good young men you know. This is about Baylor. You’re defending athletes as a whole when it’s the Baylor football program that is the matter of discussion.
In my humble opinion, this is about our daughters and their safety, at all college campuses and rest of the planet as well. We need to change this culture.
We also need to rethink connection between education and football and moral corruption/rapes/domestic abuse/concussions, intoxication etc etc.
Wow. You talk about twisting someone’s words. Listen, Calicash, someone asked me a question about why I felt the way I did and I answered that question so for me, in that response, it is about the young men I know. Secondly, I’m proud you can read from the complaint but lets wait and see what holds up in court before we jump to conclusions. Who knows how many of those allegations are real? And who knows how many rapes and assaults go unreported? For at least the third time on this thread alone I will point out we have a justice system in this country. I’m perfectly willing to let the justice system sort it out without going postal or losing my mind over it. I’ll let you do what works for you on that. In part #3 of post #87 you point out that Baylor is an outlier case and that what happened at Baylor is not common. Um, exactly. Yup. Big 10-4 there. Maybe that will shed some light on what I’ve said on this thread which you yourself acknowledged to be true. So, in part, this thread is about a little more than Baylor because athletic culture exists at other U’s across this country. Lastly, yes, thanks, I am familiar with the rest of the saying but I do not believe most athletes are bad or will be spoiled by the ones that are. You, once again, can rant as needed and believe what you want.
By the way, I am sure in court someone will show how the “unofficial policy of looking the other way” contributed to rapes. I hope no other schools have unofficial policies of looking the other way. I don’t even know what that means but I think it involves something unofficial and looking away so who knows. If I didn’t know better that sounds like mumbo jumbo but its in the complaint so hell it must be true and I should probably jump out a window.
There are diffrent standards for wining teams at most educational institutions, that’s why we need to think big, instead of feeding Baylor’s blood to mob and forget the broader issue. Have a criminal investigation against Their ex-president and ex-coach and title lX officer and athletes and whoever you want but don’t make it one college issue. This is a bigger issue.
Just like asking girls to avoid talking to atheletes or attending parties isn’t a real solution, telling them to avoid Baylor and Duke and UNC isn’t a solution either.
@SugarlessCandy Puninishing Baylor severely does address the bigger issue. It makes it known that a culture (and yes @GoNoles85, it is a culture. Just like the culture at FSU that let Jameis Winston get away with rape from the Tallahassee PD to school administration) that does not respect and protect women will not be tolerated. If schools see that harsh penalty, that will serve as a great example for why winning shouldn’t come at just any cost. And shifting the blame and burden onto the victims is just as problematic and is systematic of the rape culture in the US as a whole. Don’t wanna get raped? Avoids athletes and parties.
And yes these are allegations but 50+ allegations of this kind are unheard of. Especially with the comments that Art Briles son has made. From the lawsuit, student trainers were assaulted. Baylor Bruins were assaulted. Other women on campus were assaulted. If in order for women to protect themselves, they have to avoid the 100 most popular mean on campus, that’s really evidence of a culture at Baylor that enabled this behavior at the highest level. This would’ve all been solved if Baylor didn’t let these problems go unaddressed. That simple.
@GoNoles85 Would you feel the same way if the women’s softball team had the same amount of rape allegations against them?
And you know what, I’ll admit it. Criminal actions should be handled by the criminal justice system. That is the best way to address this on a case by case basis. 3 Baylor players in recent years have been charged with rape. Two are serving sentences. However those guys getting arrested and found guilty clearly hasn’t been enough to change much around Baylor. I also think that because crimes were suppressed in favor of a sports program, the NCAA has ground to stand on.
I’m all for investigating every incident at every college including Baylor but I don’t want to handle this widespread plague as a local infection. You are entitled to your opinion.
“The federal lawsuit alleges that at least 52 rapes were committed by at least 31 Baylor players from 2011 through 2014, including at least five gang rapes with at least 10 players. Such a total would be drastically higher than the number of sexual assaults the university has previously said occurred.”
Yes, rapes happen on every campus, but 52 rapes in 3 years, just by the football team? If that is true, I agree that Baylor should get the NCAA’s “death penalty.” If that is happening everywhere, I would like to see some examples. That seems out of control.
I would not allow either of my D’s or S to go to a school in this situation until the situation is resolved and the university can explain to me how they know it will not happen again. I find the “It happens everywhere” argument to be loathsome and completely unacceptable. To the extent that coaches, the AD and the University President were aware of this and failed to act, they may also have created a very large liability for the University.
Regarding the “don’t be a victim” comments, I am fine with colleges taking that approach, if students are allowed to concealed carry. However, we can’t tell students to “don’t be a victim,” but not protect them on campuses, and not allow them to carry weapons either. That is ridiculous. If we don’t want to let them carry weapons, then we need to protect them. I am good with either approach. I know my girls can take care of themselves, if allow to.
If you only read the headlines you would believe FSU’s former QB Jameis Winston did rape an FSU coed. If you knew a little more about the case you would know that they had consensual sex, she lied about it later because she had a BF, and then screamed rape to try to get his money (his future money he was still in school at the time). The Tally PD did investigate and found that she wasn’t credible. The Tally DA did review the Tally PD’s case and didn’t think he had a case. It turns out when a cleat chaser has consensual sex with a jock it isn’t against the law.
And Jameis Winston later stole crab legs from Publix and did a few other things that embarrassed himself and his school. He also embarrassed himself just last week while talking to elementary school kids but he was trying to help them. He is not black or white he is another example of a gray area. By the way, the FSU Co-Ed who accused him of rape has relatives who are lawyers who are Gator alums and fans and used the media to stir it all up as much as they could and used civil lawsuits to dig for as much cash as they could get now that Jameis is in the NFL. And, by the way, in the last 10 to 15 years all the other 85 FSU football players over that period of time haven’t had gang rape accusations against them and even though they have done other things over that period of time so has a representative sample of 85 other FSU male students at about the same rate.
I think she ended up settling out of court with Jameis and all his lawyers. She went back to his apartment consensually and even bragged to her friends about it on social media which she later erased but of course if you post it in social media people will find it again. Whoops. Raped? She was bragging about it. She also lied repeatedly. Are you sure you want to use Jameis Winston’s case as proof that jocks get away with rape?
And like I said, the other 84 players on the team were decent human beings with decent parents who are trying to get a career either in the NFL or somewhere else like most kids their age are. I wouldn’t say that FSU’s football program has been perfect but I have been an FSU football fan since 1979 and even though the former coach Bobby Bowden was old school in his discipline, he wanted to handle things in house, make the players run and so forth to punish them, he frankly didn’t get it, FSU’s coach for the last 7 years has been Jimbo Fisher and he has much more modern views on player responsibilities and FSU hasn’t had many problems under Jimbo’s tenure. That is kind of my point. FSU’s football players aren’t perfect but they aren’t much better or worse than the general FSU population. There are a lot of women who do go to FSU and love and support the football program and get a great education at an affordable cost in a really cool and quant Southern Antebellium town.
Meanwhile, colleges and society are trying to create better environment on college campuses, I am wondering what advice should we give to girls already there or heading for colleges this year? As rarely anything happens on campuses, should we ask them to avoid frat parties and drunk atheletes, going to anybody’s apartment at night or what? How do we make them safer? I guess same advice to boys as well?
Sugarless- why do you think that bad things rarely happen on campus? People are assaulted in dorm rooms all the time.