COLLEGE PROGRAM
The college program is for students interested in the fields of Business, Finance, Accounting, Economics, Engineering (STEM), Supply Chain Management, Computer Science/MIS, Healthcare, Retail Management and Liberal Arts
You do not need to start with them your freshmen year. It is ok to start during your junior year of college and have just one summer with them.
One thing to consider is that test scores are not the be all and end all for admissions. In fact, once a student meets a benchmark, admissions is usually about other things, including EC’s. The problem here might be less that he doesn’t want to spend a lot of time on test prep and more that he is doing an EC to be with friends, rather than out of genuine interest or talent. That said, friends are important. But going for the security, socially, of this activity versus finding one that is a true fit, may not be the best thing ultimately. This is delicate but well worth discussing with your mentee.
Also, we don’t know the age or grade level of this student. Kids mature and change interests during high school, so if he is still a freshman or even sophomore, the conversation could be gentle and exploratory but there is plenty of time for things to evolve naturally.
I would never try to talk a kid out of something he enjoys. Sure test scores are important, but so is quality of life, a sense of belonging (which may also be askew if he is a kid focused on academics in an environment where this is not condoned by his friends) and learning how to be a part of a group. Encourage him to study, but don’t talk him out of what he loves. Its not your place.
I think doschicos’ advice in post16 about gentle nudging is the perfect way to go. I would show the student the format of a college application so he knows what information he will need to provide schools some day. Many kids believe they are good students and good people–perhaps “better” than their peers as far as intelligence, behavior, or involvement go. And they very well may be. But the problem is they have to be able to prove that! Being smart is great, but do his grades substantiate that quality? Being athletic and fit is nice, but can he show that he is to adcoms? Hours spent in pick-up basketball games in the neighborhood, for example, may be healthy and enjoyable but do not constitute a verifiable EC nor do they necessarily lead to any goal the student may have. Depending on this young man’s circumstances, it might be even better if he could channel those hypothetical basketball skills and his love of the game onto a community league team or school team. That way he has a verifiable EC and perhaps gains another adult mentor who could write a rec letter for him.
I understand from your other posts that you believe in a meritocracy and you think that test scores count more than anything else. I believe you’re mistaken.
To suggest that a teen should drop something they find enjoyable because you’ve determined they have no talent and you find no value in it is arrogant, shortsighted, and cruel. It appears from your posts that you want him to use that time to focus on test prep. You’re not his parent. It’s not your job to inform unsuspecting children that you think they have no talent and that the things they’re enjoying won’t get them anywhere. If you wanted to make sure he knew test scores matter, you could say that directly. What his family does with that information is frankly none of your business.
As a dance parent, there is a blog circulating around that occasionally crops up from time to time called “Why I don’t pay for dance lessons anymore.” You can substitute any EC for dance because the reasons are universal. I’ll let you Google it so you can read it in its entirety, but the last paragraph pretty much sums up any EC for any kid:
“I don’t pay for dance; I pay for the opportunities that dance provides my child to develop attributes that will serve her well throughout her life and give her the opportunity to bless the lives of others.”
I have fantasies - literally, they make me smile - of my daughter stopping her incredibly demanding ballet schedule. @tutumom2001 I’m sure you can relate to the time commitment. But, I ultimately think dance has given her much more than it has taken away in terms of other opportunities and free time. We can see the light at the end of the tunnel now (she’s a junior, been with this teacher since kindergarten) and there have been many times I, as a parent, had to take a deep breath and realize it’s her thing, not mine.
As long as they enjoy it and are learning something about themselves - even how to persevere when you are not the best in the room - that is a life lesson that goes far beyond what a lot of kids are able to learn.
Argh…I see both sides. My kid was in band which was WAY too time consuming. It was a I time suck not only for other EC’s but family time especially.
My questions would be:
Would you like to be doing something else for the X number of hours this takes?
What is it and how do we get there?
i2) What are your ultimate goals? (college, better scores, down time, pursuing some other talent)
Is this getting in the way?
What’s the main goal presently? Friends? Fun? Getting into college?
What is holding you back from changing your EC if you’d like to?
How do we get over that?
Not only what is holding you back but what is the worst case scenario in following your dream?
Should a parent be the one asking? Absolutely.
Do they? Not always.
Sometimes it’s that outside voice that has the biggest resonating sound.
Kids need guidance and it doesn’t necessarily come from parents.
Yes, maybe the kid needs friends more than anything. But maybe he doesn’t need these particular friends.
There may be a better group. Maybe friends in a new peer group with higher goals is the place to be.
Peer group is everything.
Yes, he needs an enjoyable EC with friends. But maybe the next one will be a better fit and more beneficial.
I would focus on broadening his horizons.
What’s out there?
What’s available?
How do you get there?
Most people need directions step-by-step to reach their goals.
I was not dishing out any advice, just asking if I should address it or not and if I should then how to approach the subject without doing any harm to his self esteem.
If you think that he should spend more time doing test prep, tell him that.
If you think he should spend more time studying because of a concrete reason (ie he got a B when he probably should’ve gotten an A), tell him that.
If you think he should spend more time with his family or something, don’t tell him that. That’s his family’s job.
But don’t tell him he’s spending too much time on what you think isn’t a “good” EC for him. That’s not your place.
You’re a tutor, not a counselor. I know you’re eager to open a consulting business, but until you get training and are hired to provide those services you really shouldn’t be dabbling in it. Practicing on unsuspecting kids isn’t ethical. If you can’t refrain from offering unsolicited advice, perhaps you should quit volunteering to work with children because the harm you can do to their self-esteem is enormous.
@Yalie 2011 after Ivy Day, call the regional rep at Yale for where you now live and ask what the reputable ‘college bound’ type programs are. That can spare you looking.
If this kid really has promise, it’s always a matter of identifying the balance of intelligence, stretchability, and EQ, (the emotional or personality traits.) Some kids with potential will thrive best at a reach school-- or they may need a softer landing. Some are ready for more challenge while others need to grow at their own pace. (Ie, it’s not just the raw promise.) If you read between the lines, that’s what most parents here try to factor. “Fit and thrive” is different than the abstract of reaching high.
Yalie I was not referring to advice from you, but advice on the forum.
I am mystified by the hostility on this thread. I haven’t seen other posts from Yalie, but I know young people who volunteer to tutor and do college counseling and admire their commitment. I think that Yalie may have a point in terms of this mentee switching gears, and the real issue is the delicacy with which it needs to be approached.
There is a level of sophistication among posters on this forum that is not shared by all families or even schools. It may very well be true that spending time on this EC is a waste. We don’t have enough information to say much about that. Test prep should not be a time-consuming focus either unless it promises to raise scores a significant amount and is a significant factor for admissions (not always the case).
You’d be doing him a greater service by asking him what to reflect on what he likes about the EC and why he does it as an exercise for him to learn more about himself. Honestly, I can see how quite a bit of good could come from that.
As an adult, I have been involved in a number of things that don’t really excite me for varying reasons. (Like PTA, because I wanted a network to know what was going on in DC’s school.) Kids do the same. All of it is a way to engage with the world.
I have a kid who’s dyslexic, dyscalculic, and dysgraphic. It touches nearly everything she does every single day. Her main EC is a swim team which she’s on for lots of reasons, only some having to do with swimming. If someone she trusted and looked up to told her she wasn’t good enough and it wasn’t getting her anywhere, it would be a tremendous blow. Encouraging a student to work hard and making them aware of opportunities that are available never has to include the message that they’re not good enough and that their personal choice for how to spend their time is a waste.
If you want to encourage the student to pursue test prep opportunities, why not just do that? Why do you feel the need to convince him to drop an activity he enjoys? Test prep isn’t an EC, so it shouldn’t be used to replace one.