<p>GFG - keep on posting, read the books recommended (did I mention Get Out of my Life but First Can You Drive Me to the Mall)<br>
Speaking as someone who went through this as a child -and came out very damaged-and the parent and aunt of gifted kids…
a child is almost always, at BEST, her chronological age emotionally. Often younger. The fact that they are gifted doesn’t make them any older than any other 14 year old in reactions, attitudes etc. In fact when you read up on IQ you’ll see that there is a social IQ and that imho is a MAJOR factor in success. A gifted student who has no one IMing them is missing a big social part of current life. With the exception of a few fields, a good social feel is as important as brains in the wide world.</p>
<p>"I went in a different way than “what do you love” since for her that did stress her, and DD1 is a burningly intense person who was in endless conflict between the wonders of physics and the glories of music.
I asked, what lowers your stress the most? Running, lifting, reading, dancing, music? Can you find ways to enjoy that more? "</p>
<p>That’s a very good point. For some kids a different approach is better. Perhaps it would also be important to find out what in that child’s life causes the stress. My older daughter ran for years and hated the actual running part. It was important for her to learn that it was ok to let go of something that made her unhappy even if she was good at it and enjoyed some of the things that went with it. My younger daughter, however, is the kind of personality for whom the “what do you love” approach is perfect, so different kids need different approaches. I think if a parent is fighting with a kid to force practice for an EC or a hobby, that should definitely be reconsidered.</p>
<p>"I wonder whether that lack of guiding passion and hence goal-setting is what separates a truly gifted and talented person from an ordinary one (or “talented slacker” to use CC jargon). And if she’s ordinary in that sense, then perhaps I need to downgrade my sense of her potential and adjust expectations. "</p>
<p>Potential is just that, potential. She’s also just a kid and maybe you shouldn’t worry quite so much about goal setting and whether she is, in fact, gifted, and let things flow a little bit. I’m sure it’s a fluke of the message board thing, but it sounds to me as if you’re pushing and projecting. Maybe you should take a step back yourself and let her have some space.</p>
<p>Pursuing high achievement is only one of many paths in life.</p>
<p>Plenty of people are successful and happy without being the best at anything.</p>
<p>That’s what I remind myself as I try to refrain from prodding and pushing, especially as it tends to be counterproductive anyway.</p>
<p>“Pursuing high achievement is only one of many paths in life.”</p>
<p>Eggsactly!! When I talk about finding what my younger daughter loves, it’s in the context of a 14 year old. If she loves it today, that’s great. If she doesn’t love it tomorrow, that’s fine too. She’s not looking for life’s great passion, just enjoyment and enrichment. She is in love with classics today and lives in the library poring over great books. I don’t expect her to necessarily do anything with that other than enjoy herself while she’s at it. We do, however, have standards that she must meet. The rest will come when she matures. I can’t wrap my brain around what an on-the-ball, competent, engaged woman Zoosergirl (the older one) has become in the four short years of high school. Time passes and maturity will come. The key is not to kill each other in the interim.</p>
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<p>My mother keeps telling me that her grandchildren are her reward for not having killed her kids.</p>
<p>most of us just do not have all consuming passions and the belief that finding a passion is the road to happiness can be damaging. I read the poem linked to below - the lesson of the moth, by Don Marquis-when I was in my late teen years. I felt shame that I didn’t want something passionately, as if that was the only path for the gifted.
As zoosermom notes, there are many paths.
<a href=“http://www.breakoutofthebox.com/moth.htm[/url]”>http://www.breakoutofthebox.com/moth.htm</a></p>
<p>If I had a dime for the ten thousand times I was told I wasn’t living up to my potential…oh good Lord. I would be a rich woman.</p>
<p>A girl who signs up for all AP classes is a competitive girl. Eventually, my guess is that she will turn on the steam and come out swinging. I avoided the big bats until I was nearly 20 years old but when I started swinging…honey I found out I could hit the fence pretty easily. In fact, my ambition outstripped my parent’s ambition for me by a factor of fifty. </p>
<p>Try to worry less and enjoy her while she’s still at home. Pick your battles. (iId cut back on the battles over Imng. A big blabber is a big blabber). Take some fun trips together. Start a restuarant club with her.</p>
<p>That’s what I’ve concluded about my daughter. She IS worried because she doesn’t have a clear idea of what she wants for her future or even what she “loves” right now.</p>
<p>Good god, she’s 14. Of course she doesn’t have clear goals right now. In my experince even those that say they do, don’t really. Seriously. Fourteen years old. She’s not socially responsible enough to drink, own property, vote, enter into contracts, drive, decide to have sex, or hold a part-time job.</p>
<p>And she shouldn’t be worried about it. Yet, it seems as though she’s got some pressure from you to live up to your “expectations” of her (more on those in a sec). And while you may not communicate it to her directly, she is feeling it from you. What she’s hearing from you isn’t “why don’t you explore your future”, but “why are you such a loser”. Hyperbole perhaps, but I really don’t think I’m too far off the mark.</p>
<p>And maybe you’re going to have to lower your expectations for your daughter? Seriously, but W-T-F? She’s your daughter, she’s not some commodity that you bought. It isn’t her job to satisfy you, make you happy, or fill some void in your life. It is your job to be supportive, caring, and nurturing. You have absolutely no right to be disapointed or to “lower your expectations” in/of your daughter. She’s done nothing wrong.</p>
<p>Maybe instead of looking at her for a minute, you can look at yourself and figure out why it is that you need this from her. You should realize that you’ve raised a wonderful daughter that will that will soon be a woman, and that whatever she chooses to do with her life, on her time-frame, not yours, she’ll still be your daughter. That’s pretty good in my book.</p>
<p>That’s a bit harsh, ghost. No doubt at times we all have a selfish agenda as parents, but bottom line is that we love our kids and want them to be successful in all the senses of the word. How could I not be worried about a child who seems miserable and feels put-upon most of the time, refuses to make any changes to try to fix what feels wrong to her, and at the same time seems to be floundering in the endeavors she is clinging to? She’s being a royal pain around the house and doing her best to make all of us miserable along with her. Saying she’s done nothing wrong is not quite accurate. Her attitude stinks. My expectations, as I stated, are that she make choices and accept responsibility for the implications of those choices. Yes, she is talented and I’d like to see her make the best of those talents, but that’s secondary. At the same time, would I be a good parent if I just stood by and watched her self-destruct? </p>
<p>I’m not saying I have no guilt in this, but not everything is the mom’s fault!!! Children, like adults, are affected by their own emotional frailties, character flaws, accidents of birth order, unkind words said to them by others, etc. Sometimes the pressure comes from other places besides home. For example, a lot of people have told her she will no doubt get a track scholarship. Maybe that’s a burden that’s flipping her out, who knows?</p>
<p>PS: Part of what I meant by lowering my expectations is accepting that this angst and misery is typical teenage girl stuff and maybe I don’t need to try to change it, despite the fact that she seems to not be doing as well as she should.</p>
<p>“Part of what I meant by lowering my expectations is accepting that this angst and misery is typical teenage girl stuff and maybe I don’t need to try to change it”</p>
<p>Engrave that on your heart. It’s the God’s honest truth and there is nothing you can do to fix it, you can just change the causes from day to day and exhaust yourself and your daughter in the process. Seriously. Set guidelines and then step back. There were countless times when I wanted to shake ZG, but time has worked its magic and, oh lord, am I going to miss that girl next year.</p>
<p>Replying to myself: doesn’t it seem cosmically unfair that they leave us at exactly the time that they become wonderful companions?</p>
<p>Prefect- I will ask my spouse, the “Family Network Manager.” 
He works at a school and probably used some of their software. The 11:30-6:00 time is an electric timer that cuts off the power to the wireless router every night!</p>
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I think you’re right about this; unfortunately I don’t have anything magic to suggest to change things. Judith Rich wrote a controversial book “The Nurture Assumption” arguing that peer groups are the primary influence in how kids come out. And if your D has identified with the kids that dismiss academics and are largely apathetic, this is likely what she will become too.
I’m a little iffy on this one. Sure, it was her choice, and we learn by making choices (esp. mistakes!). But a 14-year-old kid is not a mature adult, cannot see consequences the way you do. Part is anatomical; the frontal lobes are not fully developed into one’s 20’s, and this is the part of the brain controlling the ability to plan and exercise complex activities, judgement, etc. Of course the development of the brain is stimulated by use, so just saying “that part isn’t all there yet so anything goes” is not a good approach.</p>
<p>As for the complaining, you can try a few behavioral tricks on that. Set a time for complaining; she can whine as much as she wants between 8pm and 9pm every nite, but that’s it. When she complains outside of those hours gently remind her that she’s outside the window, and that you’ll be willing to give her problems your 100% attention and sympathy the following evening at the appropriate hour. Maybe you’ll need 2 periods a day to start, but the point of this exercise is to teach her that her thoughts and behavior don’t just ‘happen’, they’re under her control. The 2nd point is to lessen some of the daily frustration you face; if the things you can’t stand are confined to fixed times things will be better for you too.</p>
<p>That’s a great suggestion mikimac. Both of mine have taken off but I could have used it!</p>
<p>GFG, she’s not named ‘snappy’ for nothin’. ;)</p>
<p>As to ‘self-destruct’. Remember that destruction is at the heart of all creative personalities. Creative perosnlaities will be attracted to other destructive personalities. There is a trick to learn about setting boundaries for the destructing. That is a worthwhile parental goal but it would be futile to expect a creative kid to sit in the front row and behave perfectly. Futile.</p>
<p>Re: the moth poem. Profound, but disturbing. I sure hope D is a butterfly!</p>
<p>Opie ofMaybery2 said:
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<p>A little too quantitative for me. Because, What’s an EC? (Yes, I know what the abbreviation stands for.) Of course a sport that you play on a team is an EC, but is playing a lot of squash with many different partners an EC? Is having a girlfriend or boyfriend an EC? Is playing a musical instrument for fun (and seriously) an EC? </p>
<p>There’s also the occasion when there’s really only one EC – say, in the symphony orchestra at school – that includes those rehersals, private instrument lessons, and practice at home. so maybe that counts as three ECs?</p>
<p>Agreed. If one EC takes 18-20 hours per week, it doesn’t leave a lot of extra time for four more.</p>
<p>Agree, veryhappy. Besides, I’m not convinced the problem here is overcommitment so much as a lack of discipline and organization, combined with immature attitudes about time-management and the not-so-fun aspects of participation. </p>
<p>As far as EC’s, D does concert band, which is a full-year class and so only involves the occasional concert or festival performance outside of school. Individual instrument practice time would be a nice complement, but she doesn’t feel she has time to do that anymore. The significance of concert band as far as impact on her time stems from the fact that, like other serious students involved in band, she’s taking the class in lieu of a study hall so she can still fit in the recommended academic classes. So there are kids who have extra time in school to get homework done. She’s also a member of a jazz band, which entails a practice one evening per week beginning after marching band season, and then the occasional performance. The primary EC for her is varsity cross-country, winter track, and now spring track. She goes out with her friends on weekends, and we attend church as a family Sunday morning. As far as community involvement, she volunteers with the Sunday School once per month during that same church time.</p>
<p>She’s appropriately busy. I doubt if by CC standards she’d be considered overcommitted, but of course that’s a personal determination.</p>
<p>EC anything that is not part of classes. Sports teams, bands, homeless shelters. </p>
<p>Yes, you have the right idea, it’s generally overall hours in a week. However, all EC are not daily activities, nor require 2-3 commitments. The point is simply not to overextend yourself to a point of helplessness because time management and quality of the actual doing of the EC suffer. </p>
<p>So if you want to make it a simple rule of time, fine.</p>
<p>I use five cause I can use my hand as a visual aide (very effective as I strike them across the face and shout ONLY FIVE EC’s or Do YOU WANT TO SEE 10!!!) </p>
<p>I suppose I could point at my watch and then throw it at them, but how would I make the point of using too much time for EC’s ? throw the wall clock? push the grandfather clock over on them? ;)</p>