<p>^^ agreed, missiepie, but I don’t necessarily equate sexual orientation with being sexually active. One can, and should, have discussions about sexual activity, protection, what have you, but it doesn’t necessarily lead to a discussion of the person’s sexual orientation.</p>
<p>I have known kids who profess to be LUG and GUG and from what I have seen, for many of these kids, at least for the girls, it is more of way of not having to deal with sexuality issues while they are busy focusing on the rest of their growing up. </p>
<p>I think sometimes we, as a society, put too much emphasis on sexuality and the need to identify and act on that. As someone up thread said, many people are just not ready to express or act in a sexual way until later then others. But there is a lot of pressure on young adults to not only be sexually active, but to be sexually expressive. </p>
<p>Many girls (for example) who are not ready to express themselves find it easier to identify with a lesbian group because it shuts off unwanted advances from males. At the same time, they may feel more secure in rejecting advances from others of their same gender. </p>
<p>This does not hold true for all the kids I have known, but it does seem to be a viable explanation for the some.</p>
<p>“Mary Matalin and James Carville”</p>
<p>That makes me think Mary must be gay, because no matter his politics…what an unattractive guy to be married to. Okay, mythmom, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt-just when I hear something I perceive that is hyper-partisan in relation to children, it always hits a nerve. Maybe because my parents are ultra-brainwashed liberals, who are completely confused by the concept of any independent thinking of their own. Party line, party line. We could be gay, sure, no problem, Republican…WHAT? Funny how many of us consider ourselves to be socially liberal, fiscally conservative—but with different titles?</p>
<p>Good for your son, pizzagirl—maybe you can consider that if he gets the job, he’s an operative for the other side! I’m sure he’s not trying to give you a hard time, he just has an open mind.</p>
<p>" I really don’t want my kids to be sexually active in high school period - just too much for someone that young to handle, IMO"</p>
<p>Agreed. Gay or straight, too many possible consequences, too young. Though it may not be a realistic hope.</p>
<p>Such a thoughtful and interesting thread…</p>
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<p>Mr PMK and I were very proud of ourselves for waiting two whole days before working in the reminder that gay children are just as capable as giving their parents grandchildren as straight children. My son (rightfully!) rolled his eyes. </p>
<p>In our case, we struggled with infertility before having our son and that’s what hurt my heart. I very much hoped that my son would easily be able to become a father when he wanted too, as most people do. He’s only 18 but the little he has said about it is that he plans on adopting. Of course, we have nothing but praise and support for any plan than results in grandchildren! I mean, results in my son becoming a father. It’s hard to remember to be selfless when discussing my future grandkids!</p>
<p>alh, I am sorry you had that experience with your extended family. I admire and applaud your choice. My BIL is very conservative and he is the one family member that my husband told seperately. He told him that our son was gay, that it was normal and there was nothing to discuss. I am very thankful that my BIL has chosen to keep his opinions to himself as a riff would have been very painful but unavoidable. </p>
<p>As for “knowing”, I’ll give that a “yes and no.” I guess I would not have been suprised either way? It’s hard to describe. We just went into parenting with the hope that our children would feel comfortable sharing that part of their lives with us but not assuming the specifics.</p>
<p>I think smart is sexy and so, yes, I find James Carville to be attractive. Interesting fact about Carville, he was a United States Marine. I got to hear him give a speech to an audience made up primarily of Marines and he was a great speaker. No matter ones politics, if you ever get the chance to see him, I encourage you to go.</p>
<p>Also, he did address his marriage a bit, mostly in a humorous way. For one thing, he agrees with everyone that he got exceptionally lucky that such a good looking woman would marry him! He also said that he and his wife find it odd that people think their marriage is odd. They agree on on the role of family, faith, community and so on in their lives. Politics is the exception but he emphasized that politics is how they make a living, it’s not their life.</p>
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<p>My kids would roll their eyes, too. They would know they had just given their mother yet another issue to research…gay friendly adoption agencies, etc etc. LOL, I’d become an “expert” on the issue before they were even in a serious relationship.</p>
<p>I admit that a bigger issue with me will be accepting any future spouse/partner of my kids, no matter the gender. Our family is a bit insular - the kids have never taken a friend with them on vacation, for example. It will be difficult for me to admit a new member of the family.</p>
<p>I found out that D2 was gay when she was in middle school. She did not come out, but I was cleaning out all her old school notebooks in her room while she was at camp, and came across a “diary” type entry (just one) in one of them while thumbing through to check if the notebook was “used up”. It was pretty clear that she was agonizing over whether to come out to her friends or not, and had a crush on an older classmate. She was gone for another two weeks, so it gave me plenty of time to mull over options. I must say, I was extremely surprised by it, though, my mom radar had not detected even a whiff of it.</p>
<p>I gave her a couple of days to settle in back at home, then sat down to chat with her. She was not very forthcoming with information (typical for her), but acknowledged that she was gay. I did hug her and tell her I loved her, and that this did not make one bit of difference to me. Also that it was her personal business, and if she didn’t want to discuss it, she wasn’t required to. I did give her a bit of advice on whether to come out at that point to her friends; she was at an age where middle school kids can be VERY judgemental, and I suggested she might want to wait a year or so – even if she was ready to be out (and I’m not sure she really was ready…), I told her that the kids at school might not be as ready as she is. But that if she felt strongly that she wanted to, then she should, and I would certainly be supportive. She decided to wait a bit, and is now a freshman in high school. Still not out to her peers as far as I know.</p>
<p>I did tell her dad (my ex-H), and her pediatrician. I told her I was going to tell them.</p>
<p>It is not something we discuss regularly, but sometimes stuff comes up in conversation with her (maybe a piece on the radio on gay marriage, for example). Fortunately, my ex-H and I are both really okay with it, and also were previouly supportive of gay rights and gay marriage. I have gotten more involved in a group through my church supporting gay marriage rights, and now readily speak up on that topic or if I hear someone make a homophobic remark.</p>
<p>I will apologize in advance.</p>
<p>My sister and I were convinced our oldest sister was gay when (all in our 20’s) she went on and on one late late night about how much she enjoyed giving oral sex to her then boyfriend. 
A few years later when she DID finally come out, my sister and I just burst out laughing. It was an awkward moment, but for all the wrong reasons.</p>
<p>My father only said to my sister that he was sorry that her life might be harder for her than he would want. And even this is getting better. Not perfect, but better. His sister is gay and was with the same partner for nearly 50 years before she passed away this past winter. And the way they lived their lives was so less open than that of my sister. And hopefully, in the future, it will prove even easier for our kids’ generation. </p>
<p>As for kids… much longer story here… but just recently I told my sister that I, for one, was glad she never had a child because she has been such an incredible second mother to my own… both financially and emotionally. I will hope that if any of my children were gay, they would feel perfectly welcome to come to me. But I KNOW they feel welcome to tell her absolutely anything. </p>
<p>We actually pulled our kids out of catholic school not because we weren’t catholic but because a substitute religion teacher told our son’s class one day that all gays and lesbians were going to burn in hell. Son… very respectfully asked (his respect was actually confirmed), “How do you know?” He was in 7th grade at the time. She said because it is in the bible. And he said… but if you’re not dead, how do you know what happens beyond believing in God and heaven. She sent him to detention for questioning the bible. When the principal upheld the decision, we applied to a private school with a very inclusive community. </p>
<p>And too… look at shows like “Modern Family.” It’s absolutely the freshest thing to hit TV in decades. Love that show!! Can I have Cameron and Mitchell over for dinner??</p>
<p>^great post Moda, your son sounds like he was a really neat 7th grader! you must have given him the right support for him to know he could ask those questions…</p>
<p>p.s. we do have the same fav tv shows</p>
<p>Oh my… what a rambling post I made.</p>
<p>In answer to the OP… I think it would be harder to hear such news if it came later in the game (college and beyond) only because at this point, I honestly don’t see it as the case. It would be really hurtful if my kid had felt he/she needed to live in denial of who they were. So… to say I’d be fine with it if it happened, is probably not exactly accurate. I would be, but my own failure to have “seen” my child would be hard for me at this point.</p>
<p>Lindz- I credit my sister. Really? If you know and love someone who just happens to be gay, an inclusive world view is nothing you have to teach, it’s what they see on a day to day basis.</p>
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<p>I think you mean the pink Power Ranger.</p>
<p>All the ninja turtles were male, if I remember correctly, and the colors of their masks did not include pink.</p>
<p>My son had an enormous crush on Elvira, Mistress of the Dark, when he was about 7. In retrospect, I think that was definitely a sign, even though it didn’t occur to me at the time!</p>
<p>His later infatuation with Madonna was probably even more of a hint. As was his impassioned performance of “I Will Survive” at a school event in 6th grade.</p>
<p>To be honest, I was probably too close to him to “see” his orientation very clearly. I never really thought about it much before he came out to me at 12. I believe he had known himself for some time, even though he wasn’t able to put words to it until he was 10 or 11.</p>
<p>On the other hand, a good friend of mine who’s known him since he was born says that it was fairly obvious to her from the time he was a small child. She didn’t say anything because she didn’t think it was her place.</p>
<p>By the way, knowing what your sexual orientation is doesn’t imply sexual activity for someone gay any more than it does for someone who knows by junior high school, or earlier, that they’re straight. It’s a question of attraction, not action.</p>
<p>I do think it’s still true, as a broad generalization, that boys tend to become aware that they’re gay somewhat earlier than girls do. It’s still more common for boys to come out (at least to themselves) in high school, and for girls not to do so until college.</p>
<p>My S wanted to be Donatello because his name starts with D too.</p>
<p>I don’t think we need to be hurt if our kids tell us things about their lives later rather than sooner. Sometimes it’s because they’re afraid of how we’d react, but I know that my S and I are so close he keeps some things to himself just to feel like he’s his own man.</p>
<p>I don’t feel the same way as some posters about high school sex. I think that there are rough developmental stages for human – we walk and talk at roughly a year and we start having sex at roughly 17. (Of course some are older, some younger.)</p>
<p>My kids never told me when they became sexually active; it just became understood. I don’t discuss such matters with them because they’ve never brought them up. They know they could because their friends talk to me about things. My credentials: I went to Woodstock. Pretty power credentials to friends, but of course, old hat to my kids.</p>
<p>As for being a grandmother, a have so many friends that have never had children that I get a front row seat for how people can fill their lives in all sorts of ways. My kids both say they want to have children, but right now it is up to me to fill my life with me (and H.) One has graduated from college and one will next year. If they do have children it’s in the distant future – one is starting law school and the other wants to go into the Peace Corps.</p>
<p>As Marian indicated, if I am lucky enough to have children, I wouldn’t care how they came to me.</p>
<p>My S and D know I would really feel fine no matter what they’d decided to do, even the military, but frankly I can’t see it unless they are guaranteed infinite internet access with IMDB (S) and Kate Spade bags (D.)</p>
<p>S knows I named him after my dear gay friend, and that said it all. When he was little after seeing DF I told both my kids it would never matter to me, but they were a little weary of how PC our house is, I think, and they both said, “We’re not gay.” I said, “How do you know?” (I did.)::mythmom hangs her head in shame:: But they were little, and I didn’t know how they could know.</p>
<p>A little off topic, but I have a story similar story to Moda’s. When S was in 7th grade, one week priest told the children that they should be grateful that they were RC because only we have the right to enter to Heaven. S came home in tears moaning his friends of other religions. Next week, CCD teacher said all gays were going hell. He came home in tears worried about the various relatives and friends who were gay. (This all happened within a month of 9/11.) well, both CCD teacher and priest got calls that evening. We haven’t been to church since!</p>
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<p>Do you think it has anything to do with girls/women being socially permitted to be more affectionate with each other than boys?</p>
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<p>Of course, in my childhood as a southern Baptist, the only ones we knew *for sure *were going to hell were the RCs.</p>
<p>I’ve been a Christian for a long time, and have studied the Bible quite a bit, and I am amazed at the certainty with which some of these statements are made. They must have the teacher’s version, with the answers in the back.</p>
<p>missypie - the fact you realize that may be an issue for you is a great beginning. My parents divorced when I was in college and although they were great parents I was still very affected by it. My mom remarried a year later to a great man I now adore, but it was all very awkward. His family (brother, sister, nieces (my age)) immediately embraced me as “family”. They had known me for a week and were introducing me to everyone as “their niece or cousin”. It taught me a great lesson about what family truly is.
BTW - we have beloved gay members in our family and we are all politically conservative. The dozens of gay families we know are in our church. I can appreciate how most people would assume that Christian=conservative=not-accepting of gays. But that would be like assuming liberal=progressive=open-minded ;)</p>
<p>Missypie - I was referring to you be accepting of new family members - sorry if that was unclear</p>
<p>We rejected the only private day school local enough for my kids to attend. It’s a famous evangelical school, but kids of all ethnicities and religions attend because it’s in a wealthy community, and it’s the only one.</p>
<p>At the open house I asked, “So are my kids going to be taught evolution is wrong?” “Yes,” was the answer. And then, I asked, (and there are many boarders at the school) “If a child is confused about his/her sexuality and asks for guidance is s/he going to be told homosexuality is a sin?” “Yes.” Kids went to public school.</p>
<p>I don’t know what I was thinking anyway. How was I going to afford it?</p>
<p>Moda: I respect your decision.</p>
<p>And yes, it’s a good reminder not to prejudge anyone. With enough love, anything is possible, and without it, just about nothing is. For anyone.</p>
<p>One of the preschool teachers took me aside to tell me my 3 yr old son ran to the dress up box and put on the pink tutu first thing every morning before heading to the art table. My response: “you want me to talk to him about sharing?” The teacher looked at me blankly and said she wanted to be sure we didn’t mind him wearing a tutu. I tend to think dress doesn’t really have anything to do with sexual orientation, but what do I know? Not much at all. It does, of course, have everything to do with how you choose to present yourself. </p>
<p>However, when I watched a half dozen 9 and 10 year old boys freeze, wide-eyed, in front of the TV when a Victoria’s Secret commercial came on, while one seized the opportunity to go to the kitchen and fetch snacks…</p>