People who riot are not necessarily “lowlifes”…people who loot are.
If so, our nation was founded on the angry impulse of a bunch of lowlifes.
True, but these rioters are.
Who was living mainly off of government and expecting others to solve their problems when they “rioted,” The Founders or these people?
Only short-sighted, not too brilliant people destroy where they live. Clearly, they have no concept of taking are of the area in which you live. In contrast, the Founders actually had, in terms of today, millions to lose, and they were the most educated and the most wealthy. And they took responsibility to rebuild are they rioted and created something much better.
Therefore, I agree, not all rioters are lowlifes, but it takes zero understanding of the Founders to equate them with these rioters given the fact they (the Founders) had a plan after they rebelled.
It really comes back to the basic issue that culture matters. And any culture where students who study hard in school are attacked for doing as much and are called “acting white” is doomed educationally no matter how much money one pours into schools. The problem is not money; it is ideology and what is believed and valued that are the problems.
Baltimore city spends over 15k per student. Less than 15% of 8th graders read or do math at grade level. That’s beyond shameful.
Freddie Gray did NOT have a spinal injury or spinal surgery before his arrest. His insurance payout was due to lead exposure from a previous landlord. Other family members were also receiving payments.
If future police brutality and wrongful death claims are paid by the police pension fund, this problem might go away a bit earlier!
I am beyond tired of finger pointing at the schools for not magically solving the problems resulting from decades-old social and economic ills. The public school system in my very diverse town includes the Ivy-bound and those who will never read at grade level. The schools aren’t responsible for either the success of one nor the failure of the other. Kids who come from dysfunctional homes and live in drug-ridden communities where education is not prized can’t be fixed by the schools, no matter how much money is poured into them. At best, the schools in poverty-stricken areas provide a safe place to spend the day and opportunities for the few who are able to rise above the muck by dint of extraordinary ability, determination, and/or family support. It’s so easy to tsk tsk at the schools, shrug, and turn away. Teachers in inner city schools have a Sisyphean task, and I marvel that any of them stick around for it.
@awcntdb , don’t even know what to say in response to your assertions about “mainly living off government.” There are lots of issues involved in this and it doesn’t seem like there is a lack of leadership from the community itself.
I agree with you MommaJ . I do think there is a lot of finger pointing going on here. But what I don’t see is enough parenting going on, and yes a lack of fathers in the home in far too many African American families. These patterns sadly have been repeating for decades.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/16/us/politics/15cnd-obama.html?_r=0
Say what you will about the why’s behind it, those school achievements are not by any stretch good. I’m not saying I have any clue how to improve it, but we shouldn’t just dismiss them and think if we just put more money into it or not change anything it will improve the outcome for those kids. At 15k they could attend some pretty good private schools in the area.
The only way to solve problems is to honestly address what the cause is, and what the fixes are. Political rhetoric and posturing does nothing.
I think rioters are lowlifes because my vision of what rioting is, is hurting other people or destroying their property. Violence, burning, smashing…that’s rioting. Other actions are demonstrations,which are acceptable to me. Perhaps it’s not the textbook definition of rioting, but causing injuries to others is what I consider rioting.
By your definition, busdriver, some of the early Americans whose actions threw off the yoke of Great Britain were lowlife rioters.
Violence, burning, smashing, destroying property…all that and more, including the maiming of animals and the terrorizing of officials and their families…were part of the mob violence that early colonists used to fight back against what they saw as injustice and oppression. The Stamp Act riots, the food riots, the pine tree riots. I think there’s definitely parallels to what puts people in the street and what leads to mob violence. People who collectively feel they are not being heard, enough is enough, and they need to do something to fight back against the powers that be.
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2947003?uid=2&uid=4&sid=21106640592063
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamp_Act_1765#Protests_in_the_streets
"By your definition, busdriver, some of the early Americans whose actions threw off the yoke of Great Britain were lowlife rioters.
Violence, burning, smashing, destroying property…all that and more, including the maiming of animals and the terrorizing of officials and their families…were part of the mob violence that early colonists used to fight back against what they saw as injustice and oppression. The Stamp Act riots, the food riots, the pine tree riots"
Okay, sure. No doubt I would have deemed some of the early American rioters as lowlifes. Maiming of animals? Yep, don’t have to think too hard about that one.
“I think there’s definitely parallels to what puts people in the street and what leads to mob violence. People who collectively feel they are not being heard, enough is enough, and they need to do something to fight back against the powers that be”
In today’s society, what you do is VOTE the leaders that you want into office. If they feel like their leaders are not listening to them, they need to get them out of office, not destroy their neighbor’s business and the old folks home. That is not exactly fighting against the powers that be. You pretty much lose the message, there. What exactly was the message that the rioters were trying to get across to their oppressors, their leadership?
I think the far better message came from the people who were saying, “Don’t destroy our community. We have worked hard for what we do have. Don’t hurt your neighbors. Go home.” In fact, those should be words for these kids to live by every day (if it is they were kids, far more adults were arrested).
Good points and you know, I’m not trying to say that everyone out on the streets setting fires and throwing stones were consciously fighting oppression (oppressive police and criminal justice policies)…some were certainly punks creating havoc for the sake of fun and looting opportunities. Protests that start peaceful can turn violent for a lot of complex reasons.
If there was a solution that involved simply voting in more responsive city officials, I don’t think we’d be seeing this level of anger and frustration. I suspect the problem is much more entrenched than that…that it’s embedded in police policies and practices that can’t be changed due to state law and union protection.
“I suspect the problem is much more entrenched than that…that it’s embedded in police policies and practices that can’t be changed due to state law and union protection.”
Most definitely. I think many police departments should consider going through a total overhaul. It is hard to go through a complete culture change, and most people are resistant to it. They need people outside the departments to come in and help them fix their problems, though I’m sure the unions will fight like heck against that.
Over the decades, we have completely changed the culture within aviation, and now airline safety in the US has massively improved. It took a lot of work and training, but for the most part, it was very successful. I think they can apply many of these changes to police departments, just as they have started to in hospitals.
Apply the basics of Lean six sigma…the whys and see what the answers are
This is a fascinating interview:
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/29/david-simon-on-baltimore-s-anguish
In a nutshell, due to the war on drugs, the ambition of politicians and the perverse incentive of police promotions and overtime pay, Constitutional rights every other American takes for granted effectively ceased to exist for the residents of Baltimore’s poorest neighborhoods. If true, it’s jaw dropping, believe me.
Last paragraph of a very good article:
Nonviolence as Compliance
Officials calling for calm can offer no rational justification for Gray’s death, and so they appeal for order.
Ta-Nehisi Coates - TheAtlantic
Apr 27, 2015
More: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/nonviolence-as-compliance/391640/
Report now coming out by another prisoner in the police van , stating that Freddie Gray was " intentionally " hurting tinseled by slamming his own head into the walls of the van…interesting to see how this will play out
oh, yeah, I’m sure that will turn out to be just as true as the story that Gray’s spine had been injured previously…
Report? What report?
Why has no one ever mentioned any kind of head trauma?
How easy is it to slam your head against the wall of a moving van while you are handcuffed and leg shackled?
How easy is it to crush your own voice box in this manner?
Not as easy as believing random BS that pops up somewhere as a “report”…