Battling it out with the parents... final decision [parents want pharmacy and require commuting from home, student wants journalism or similar]

[Shelby_Balik]

Another vote for Kean - I think it’s your best option. The full ride gives you power that the other choices don’t. If your parents aren’t footing the bill, they can’t use their money to control your choices, and I think that’s far and away the most important thing here.

I agree with others that you don’t need to major in journalism to be a journalist – it’s more important to major in a field that can inform your work (history, poli sci, policy, education, data science – and, yes, even STEM fields, though I know you don’t want to) and then work on the school newspaper or get internships in journalism so you can have some applied work experience. My kids are both aspiring journalists, so we’ve looked into this career path – major in anything that interests you, and you can develop your skills as a journalist outside of the classroom. If your parents aren’t paying, you’re in the driver’s seat.

I’m so sorry that you’re confronting this degree of parental control. I think that the full ride is the most important consideration here, because it gives you the most power.

[aunt_bea]

I don’t understand why they think they can control your coursework.

Once you turn 18, and you commit to a university, that University isn’t going to send your parents any grades, or progress notes.

You don’t need to major in anything, as of yet; you can just put in a general studies major at Kean…

Whatever you do don’t give them access to your university accounts. Every university is different, so you can say that the account was made when you went to orientation. They told you weren’t to share with anyone not even your parents. That your parents would have access to a funding account only.

Your parents won’t get anything in the mail. Only you will receive communications from the University.

So you can tell your parents yeah OK I’ll look into that major but I’m required to have 60 units of general education before I can declare my major. Then do whatever the hell you want.

[JayLab]

@aquapt

From what I’ve observed about the relationships in families like yours, it can be very difficult for the child to be circumspect about her intentions. You have likely had a great deal of transparency trained into you.

Funny, because it’s quite the opposite. I often let them have their way because I can’t bring myself to tell them what I want or how I feel. So can you advise me the other way around? Because if I do what you say, they will either talk over me and make me do pharmacy at Rutgers, or agree and make me do something healthcare-related at Kean, interpreting my answer as “I’ll give up on what I want to please you.”

@aquapt

I’m not telling you to lie to your parents. (You’ll note that the words I wrote above did make any actual promises that you don’t mean.) But you don’t need them to be on board with your every innermost thought about your future. All you need is a path forward that satisfies them and also works for you. Some cans can be kicked down the road.

I get what you mean. But I’m not sure I can play that game. I guess I don’t have a choice, though. Strangely, the only non-healthcare major they consider is Education (perhaps it’s misogyny or perhaps it’s underestimating my abilities in other fields). I’m hoping to use that avenue.

[JayLab]

Yeah… not happening. They are VERY controlling when it comes to this. They have all my passwords and account info for college, and constantly preach about me not making any decisions without them. I can’t simply not give them my university accounts. In fact they’d probably get access to my bank account once I get one. It’s that kind of controlling.
If I turn 18, it’s technically true I have more authority. But leaving probably entails cutting off my family forever.
That’s why I’m trying to reach a compromise now, before I’m stuck in something and they look very closely so I don’t change track. I suppose I have some leeway because they are not very familiar with the Education major. I’ll try the Public Admin three tracks argument.

[Shelby_Balik]

@aunt_bea

Your parents won’t get anything in the mail. Only you will receive communications from the University.

Yes, and most communication will be electronic – no intercepted mail.

[aquapt]

I see what you mean. And indeed, there preferences for you do sound rather gender-role based (unless they applied the same pressures to your brother, which it doesn’t sound like they did).

It does sound like you have to draw a firm line, in terms of not wanting a pharmacy or PA program.

I still think the negotiation will go better if you leave journalism out of it entirely. Obviously, they react just as negatively to that as you do to their health care plans for you. You don’t need their approval now to add a double-major or a minor, so why introduce a bone of contention? Promise to do education or public administration as a primary major. Discuss the merits of each. (Looking at the education programs, though, they have classroom experience starting quite early, and I’m not sure how that would work with train-commuting! Do they want education badly enough to discuss the possibility of a car, so you could actually get to the student-teaching sites?)

I would focus on your top 2-3 choices for a primary major that is not journalism. (Maybe throw in political science as #3, which they’d likely reject out of hand, but that’s a good negotiating technique too. They’ll feel more satisfied that you’re making concessions, if they get to whittle down your list.) Have talking points about what you like about each. And be clear about what your no-fly-zones are. (i.e. not a pre-health life-science major) Definitely don’t come off like “I’ll give up what I want, to please you.” Come off like, “I have considered what you want, but some of the ideas you like just do not work for me. Here are the ones that do.”

[Shelby_Balik]

@JayLab

They have all my passwords and account info for college

Change your passwords. I’m absolutely serious about this. Look into FERPA, which is very powerful legislation. As long as you are over 18, they cannot, under any circumstances, get access to your educational information. I am a professor, and I have dealt with nosy parents from time to time – it’s actually a great relief to be able to tell them that I cannot disclose anything unless their student has provided written permission (which you don’t have to do!).

Bank accounts? Open one without their knowledge if you have to. All communications electronic or through an app. They don’t have to know.

This is why Kean is the only answer, I think. If they are not paying, they can’t hold anything over your head.

And I fully endorse you lying to your parents. Tell them you’re majoring in X when you’re actually majoring in Y. They can find out the truth at graduation.

[parentologist]

As that type of parent (but only for the kids who needed it), I can tell you the ways to get around this. All of these accounts require two-factor authentication. Just wait until it’s too late, to send them the code. It will have timed out before they can enter it.

IF you turn 18? Don’t you mean when? Are they putting that much pressure on you?

Just go to Keane and take the classes you want. Tell them whatever they want to hear, then do what you want. Tell them the classes that they wanted you to take were full. When parents make absurdly unreasonable, controlling demands on you, it is okay for you to find your own work around - to do what, go to college on a full tuition scholarship, studying hard, getting good grades? Is that a sin?

Hope you make tons of friends to sleep over with at the dorms. It’ll save you commuting money. I suggest that you get a part time job the second you turn 18 (since they’ll take your money before then) and put it into your own bank account, and if they ask, tell them that your account is at a different bank, and gee, you can’t get into your account when they ask to see it!

[JayLab]

@aquapt

I see what you mean. And indeed, there preferences for you do sound rather gender-role based (unless they applied the same pressures to your brother, which it doesn’t sound like they did).

Well, the pressure knows no gender bounds, since my older sister is taking the exact same route as my brother, in doing pharmacy then maybe med school- both not their first choices. I refuse to take that route.

@aquapt

Do they want education badly enough to discuss the possibility of a car, so you could actually get to the student-teaching sites?)

That would be amazing for me, but probably not. My mom is a teacher, so I’m pretty sure we can work something out.

@aquapt

I still think the negotiation will go better if you leave journalism out of it entirely.

I suppose you’re right. They’re very aggressive about me not doing journalism.

@aquapt

I would focus on your top 2-3 choices for a primary major that is not journalism. (Maybe throw in political science as #3, which they’d likely reject out of hand, but that’s a good negotiating technique too. They’ll feel more satisfied that you’re making concessions, if they get to whittle down your list.) Have talking points about what you like about each. And be clear about what your no-fly-zones are. (i.e. not a pre-health life-science major) Definitely don’t come off like “I’ll give up what I want, to please you.” Come off like, “I have considered what you want, but some of the ideas you like just do not work for me. Here are the ones that do.”

That sounds like great advice, thank you very much! Now I just need a script…

[DadTwoGirls]

@JayLab

I don’t want to do ANYTHING healthcare-related. I’m willing to compromise for other things, but I really, really don’t want to give in on that aspect.

From what I have seen (which admittedly is not much) being a pharmacist seems like a rather unpleasant way to make a living. The other health care related fields that I know about require a very strong commitment and level of determination. I do not think that working in health care is going to work unless you are strongly driven to it, and it seems clear that you are not. This just is not going to work. Medical school specifically is a very long and expensive and academically very challenging path, and you really have to be strongly drawn to it for this path to be possible.

Journalism is a tough way to make a living. However, I do know someone who makes a living in digital media and it seems to be working out quite well. My understanding is that he maintains web sites for companies. There are a lot of companies that need a web site (all of them past a certain size), but that do not have the expertise in house (I would expect that this probably describes most companies). This major might have different names at different universities but seems sensible to me.

I thought that Data Science included a fair amount of mathematics. Whether this is right for you is likely to depend upon how much you like mathematics. For me it might be a reasonable option. There are a lot of different careers that require mathematics. This means that a math major can branch out into any one of a long list of careers at some point. This is one of them (unless I am confused).

Given the uncertainly over your major, I think that you should be avoiding taking on any debt for your education. To me this makes Kean look like a good choice. You might start intending to do a double major and see how this works out. However, I would not include pharmacy as one of the double majors, and would not take any premed classes unless it is a class that you actually want to take. Both daughters had majors that overlapped with premed and have taken many of the same classes that premed students take. If you are determined and love the subject this is fine. If you don’t want to do it then you really should not even start.

@JayLab

OK, so here are my options that might get through:

• Kean University double major Education & Communications
• Kean University double major Public Admin & Communications
• NJIT Data Science

I like any of these. Something that includes digital media also makes sense to me.

[JayLab]

@Shelby_Balik

Change your passwords. I’m absolutely serious about this. Look into FERPA, which is very powerful legislation. As long as you are over 18, they cannot, under any circumstances, get access to your educational information. I am a professor, and I have dealt with nosy parents from time to time – it’s actually a great relief to be able to tell them that I cannot disclose anything unless their student has provided written permission (which you don’t have to do!).

Listen, I really don’t want to cause friction like that, especially not now. I’m willing to double major/minor without them knowing if I can get away with it, and opening another bank account, maybe with the help of my siblings/friends. But I can’t take a legal route.

@parentologist

IF you turn 18? Don’t you mean when? Are they putting that much pressure on you?

No, no, I didn’t mean it that way XD. Ofc when I turn 18, I meant if as in in the scenario that I turn 18.

@parentologist

to do what, go to college on a full tuition scholarship, studying hard, getting good grades? Is that a sin?

Apparently so.

@parentologist

Hope you make tons of friends to sleep over with at the dorms. It’ll save you commuting money. I suggest that you get a part time job the second you turn 18 (since they’ll take your money before then) and put it into your own bank account, and if they ask, tell them that your account is at a different bank, and gee, you can’t get into your account when they ask to see it!

Okay maybe not like that, they’d see through that. But I can get a part-time job that they KNOW about, and a part-time job they DON’T know about, and put the money from the second into my secret bank account. I’d need help, though, but I think I can find it once I enter college.

@DadTwoGirls

From what I have seen (which admittedly is not much) being a pharmacist seems like a rather unpleasant way to make a living. The other health care related fields that I know about require a very strong commitment and level of determination. I do not think that working in health care is going to work unless you are strongly driven to it, and it seems clear that you are not. This just is not going to work. Medical school specifically is a very long and expensive and academically very challenging path, and you really have to be strongly drawn to it for this path to be possible.

Exactly my point! I have no interest, but they seem to think that if you are “smart” in high school you can be successful in any career. Interest, or happiness, apparently doesn’t factor into it.

@DadTwoGirls

Journalism is a tough way to make a living. However, I do know someone who makes a living in digital media and it seems to be working out quite well. My understanding is that he maintains web sites for companies. There are a lot of companies that need a web site (all of them past a certain size), but that do not have the expertise in house (I would expect that this probably describes most companies). This major might have different names at different universities but seems sensible to me.

I’d like to be a foreign analyst, a freelance preferably. Of course I realize this is a very challenging and unpredictable job, but shouldn’t I be weighing the risks and making the decisions, because it’s cough cough MY life? I get that they’re worried about my future, but they won’t even take my points into consideration. Maybe I haven’t been clear enough to them about what I want. I won’t put too much emphasis on journalism, but I’ll try to make a case for Kean.

@DadTwoGirls

I thought that Data Science included a fair amount of mathematics. Whether this is right for you is likely to depend upon how much you like mathematics. For me it might be a reasonable option. There are a lot of different careers that require mathematics. This means that a math major can branch out into any one of a long list of careers at some point. This is one of them (unless I am confused).

Meh, it’s better than healthcare. The thing is, I’m willing to learn anything to get where I want to be in life, even if I think it’s boring or hard. I just don’t see the point of being miserable for six years only to pursue a completely different career path. But I can do math, especially if it’s data science or statistics, which is helpful in journalism careers.

@DadTwoGirls

I like any of these. Something that includes digital media also makes sense to me.

Digital media sounds cool!

[MYOS1634]

@aquapt is very right there with the what you say/what you don’t say practice. It’s very important. Do NOT mention journalism.

Another tack:
Could they agree to Drew or TCNJ with premed id you live on campus?
Drew is very supportive of premeds and has partnerships in NYC.
You can major in anything and be premed (actually, because it’s the basic obvious choice biology is not the most successful as a subject for med school admission, you’re better off with sth less obvious to stand out + show you can handle the premed pre-reqs AND another major.)
Premed would be for your parents but the premed pre-reqs overlap with a lot of gen eds anyway.
Perhaps agree to switch to another major they like, such as Data Science, though Professional Writing may reassure them, or do both.
Tcnj is as strong as Rutgers in many undergraduate subjects btw.

Also, once the cost of commuting and the fact premeds are expected to be part of study groups till late in the evening kicks in, it’s quite likely something will make them realize you’re better off living on campus, especially after you just text to let them know you have to sleep in a study lounge there because study group just ended and its 11pm (not an exaggeration btw.)
If you think this^ is impossible, could they see that 2H or 2H30 is way too much to commute anyway. Ideally your commute shouldn’t be more than 20-30mn one way because so much time is wasted on transportation when you could be in labs, in the library, and the time others don’t have to waste that way can never be made up because there are 24h in a day, not 26h when needed.

What your sister is doing is incredibly difficult and she’s probably missing on a lot of review sessions and study groups. I’m assuming also that unlike you she’s strong in STEM.
Btw have you read the novel Frankly in Love? Frank Lee has parents a bit like yours and a sister but he’s the one worried sick about obedience because the sister didn’t follow all of the family’s wishes.

If the commute is similar I’d pick NJIT over Kean, especially for data science, which pairs with Professional writing or Political Science well. In addition, you wouldn’t be following in your sister’s footsteps and decrease the risks of being compared.

Have you sent your LOCI to Penn and Barnard? After that, put them out of your mind.
Btw you’d have to live on campus at either, there’s no way Barnard would let you commute that far but it would come from the college, it wouldn’t come from you.

There’s no chance you will get into med school by mistake. If you’re not really into it and found AP Bio*AP chem both fascinating and quite doable though hard, then your career as a premed will not go past freshman year. The courses are really tough and being successful requires motivation, discipline, and talent. You likely have 1 out of 3 when it comes to STEM.
(The worst part is that Humanities major do very well in med school admissions, with math/stats/DS and music majors doing the best.)

To add to your argument against Rutgers: pharmacists can’t find jobs. Same thing with biology majors. And nurses make more than pharmacists!
(There should be data out there, look it up).
Honestly Education has better professional prospects!
Data Science and Professional Writing both have better prospects for med school (and for jobs).
If they insist, go for Public Health (especially the Kean special program) or Education. You’ll be able to combine all the gen eds, writing classes, etc.

Do you have Science APs?

From orientation on, DO NOT SHARE PASSWORDS. Not now, but once you’re in college. It’s actually illegal for universities to share information with your parents.
Provide them with professors’ office numbers though, no problem.

Smart thinking on the double account. Workstudy they know about->official account, part time job that pays $15/h-> secret account.

[JayLab]

@MYOS1634

Could you agree to Drew or TCNJ with premed id you live on campus?
Drew is very supportive of premeds and has partnerships in NYC.
You can major in anything and be premed (actually, because it’s the basic obvious choice biology is not the most successful as a subject for med school admission, you’re better off with sth less obvious to stand out + show you can handle the premed pre-reqs AND another major.)
Premed would be for your parents but the premed pre-reqs overlap with a lot of gen eds anyway.
Perhaps agree to switch to another major they like, such as Data Science, though Professional Writing may reassure them, or do both.
Tcnj is as strong as Rutgers in many undergraduate subjects btw.

Nah they don’t like pre-med, also drew and tcnj are both pretty far. They won’t let me live on campus either way.

@MYOS1634

Also, once the cost of commuting and the fact premeds are expected to be part of study groups till late in the evening kicks in, it’s quite likely something will make them realize you’re better off living on campus, especially after you just text to let them know you have to sleep in a study lounge there because study group just ended and its 11pm (not an exaggeration btw.)

My sister once ended her exam at 10 pm, and she had to wait for my parents to pick her up. They did so willingly, even though she could have had her own car or lived on campus to make it way easier. Neither rhyme nor reason will convince them, trust me.

@MYOS1634

If the commute is similar I’d pick NJIT over Kean, especially for data science, which pairs with Professional writing or Political Science well. In addition, you wouldn’t be following in your sister’s footsteps and decrease the risks of being compared.

Yes, that’s one of my options.

@MYOS1634

Have you sent your LOCI to Penn and Barnard? After that, put them out of your mind.

I sent an update to Barnard, but not to UPENN. I kind of lost hope.

@MYOS1634

There’s no chance you will get into med school by mistake. If you’re not really into it and found AP Bio*AP chem both fascinating and quite doable though hard, then your career as a premed will not go past freshman year. The courses are really tough and being successful requires motivation, discipline, and talent. You likely have 1 out of 3 when it comes to STEM.

I never took any STEM related AP’s, except for AP Statistics. I’m very much humanities-oriented.

@MYOS1634

To add to your argument against Rutgers: pharmacists can’t find jobs. Same thing with biology majors. And nurses make more than pharmacists!

Tell that to my parents

@MYOS1634

Do you have Science APs?

Again, no. I took/am taking AP Seminar, AP Research, APUSH, AP Language, AP Literature, AP Government, AP Stats, and AP Spanish. No sciences.

@MYOS1634

From orientation on, DO NOT SHARE PASSWORDS. Not now, but once you’re in college. It’s actually illegal for universities to share information with your parents.

Okay but what do I say when they demand passwords from me?

@MYOS1634

Smart thinking on the double account. Workstudy they know about->official account, part time job that pays $15/h-> secret account.

Yes, it’ll probably be tough but I think I can do it.

[Sammacd]

I taught English, journalism and creative writing for four years at a large selective state university. I usually told kids not to major in journalism. At best I’d advise them to double major in journalism and something that’d give them some kind of expertise or edge. Doesn’t matter what. Math, Portuguese, religious studies.

If forced to choose one major instead of doubling I’d pick the expertise one and just write for the student paper. Think about all the journalists who went to Harvard and Yale. They don’t offer journalism as a major.

If you really want to write, major in Pharmacy at Rutgers and write for the student paper. That’s how you get a job at the NYT, on the Big Pharma beat. Didn’t work out? Be a pharmacist.

Not saying journalism is stupid. I loved it. Just saying a pharmacist or someone with a degree in electrical engineering can learn AP Style and the inverted pyramid in two weeks on the job.

A journalism major can’t just learn chemistry or Portuguese at the drop of a hat.

[Shelby_Balik]

@JayLab

Okay but what do I say when they demand passwords from me?

You don’t give them. Period. You hold the power in this specific matter.

[JayLab]

That’s true, that’s true. But while I’m willing to do other “expertise” majors, I absolutely hate healthcare. It’s not just that I don’t think it’s useful, it’s that I will genuinely be miserable if I spent the next six years of my life in pharmacy, or PA. Not even writing for the paper would help with that.

[MYOS1634]

Find a work study job that’s “paid to study”, ie., welcome desk at dorms, library…
If all falls through, evening at the cafe (free meal, which you could have with friends).

If you’ve never taken a science AP, you don’t have to worry about getting into med school by mistake or succeeding in hewlth care related courses.
Btw, pharmacist, in the US, is not at all the same as doctor, and the pre-reqs aren’t the same. There’s some overlap but you can’t just go from one to the other.

Wrt passwords, you equivocate, say they are automatic and you don’t know them by heart now but will ask. Then a while later say that the registrar told you it was illegal for others to have access to your college account, even relatives, even parents. But you can give them your professors’ office numbers.
(You’ll have to go to office hours and explain the situation, which I know is difficult, but the professors will be on your side and legally they can’t share anything.)

[JayLab]

@MYOS1634

Wrt passwords, you equivocate, say they are automatic and you don’t know them by heart now but will ask. Then a while later say that the registrar told you it was illegal for others to have access to your college account, even relatives, even parents. But you can give them your professors’ office numbers.

I can’t, my older siblings already went through everything I did, and they shared everything with them. I don’t think they’d specifically ask for my passwords, just tell me to login and look through every now and then.

@MYOS1634

If you’ve never taken a science AP, you don’t have to worry about getting into med school by mistake or succeeding in hewlth care related courses.
Btw, pharmacist, in the US, is not at all the same as doctor, and the pre-reqs aren’t the same. There’s some overlap but you can’t just go from one to the other.

Good thing I’m planning on doing neither!

[Sammacd]

Data science would be good.

Also education. It’s not a huge ball-busting majorly academically so lends itself to double majoring, or a minor.

Go do Teach for America for a few years. Live it? Great. Hate it? Get a job on the Ed beat at a major daily.

[Lindagaf]

@JayLab

I’d have to work long hours every day

I’d probably not say that. As a parent who might be pushing my own agenda, I’d perhaps interpret that as suggesting you don’t want to work hard. Just playing devil’s advocate.

Edit: @JayLab your parents will have no access to your passwords and as a legal adult, they will not be given access to your college information.

Can I suggest you very firmly and clearly state that you have no intention of ever pursuing health care. Ever. Be unequivocally clear.