Battling it out with the parents... final decision [parents want pharmacy and require commuting from home, student wants journalism or similar]

[gouf78]

Sorry. Late to the game.

Pharmacist here. Your parents must be under the very old impression that pharmacy leads to high pay, instant jobs and stability. And it did a long time ago. When I graduated long ago it was a time honored profession with good pay (especially for women) and I had multiple job offers straight out of school. Pharmacists were in very short supply.

Now the career landscape has totally changed. There is an over saturation in the job market. Every college it seems now has a pharmacy school and there simply are not the jobs available to keep up with the ever growing number of graduates. This has led to stagnant wages, very long working hours–instead of the pharmacist running a department the corporation dictates. Job dissatisfaction is at an all time high. Many pharmacists right now (even ones who once loved their careers) are looking for alternative careers to get out of the rat race it has become.

As for science–pharmacists actually take more courses in science than a lot of medical doctors. Anatomy, physics, chem, org chem, biochem, pharmacology, pharmacognosy, calculus. It is never ending. I loved science so pulled through but it doesn’t leave any time to study anything else. There used to be the reward of a good job at the end of the trail but that does not exist in many cases anymore. I simply could not in good faith suggest going into pharmacy these days. People are getting OUT.

Looking at your list–I’d consider the data science. That is an up and coming field that sounds
interesting but it can be similar (I think) to computer science in some of the courses it entails.

I know you don’t want anything to do with medicine but Public Health really entails a lot of disciplines–sociology, public policy, global health, environments, statistics etc. Can be pretty eclectic really and would be a big advantage to a later journalism career.

If you pick a further school maybe you can get out of living at home. Add up the travel costs/time spent in commute and see if you can’t wrangle that into living on campus.

[citivas]

With parents this over-the-top unreasonable, there is no risk and conflict-free way to proceed and still be personally happy. Let’s start by accepting that they have behaved inappropriately and also technically put you in an unreasonable situation. It sounds like they literally did some applications for you and committed fraud in representing them as coming from you.

Here’s a few possibilities, all radical. But when they are operating in such bad faith, perhaps radical is what you need:

1. Call their bluff. You personally have the power to formally decline the Rutgers pharma program without their consent. Do so without warning them. Tell them after the fact when the deed is done. Do so similarly for any of the programs you don’t have any interest in attending. Your parents will then only have the choices of letting you attend one of the ones you didn’t decline, accept you not going to college at all or have you go to a community college.

2. Accept at Rutgers and as soon as you get there start the paperwork, again without your parents knowledge, of transferring to one of the other schools at Rutgers. Only share this info once the results of the transfer process are done. Again, by this time there will be nothing your parents can do because your relationship with the pharma program will be severed by then. They could refuse to pay for Rutgers and you have to be ready for that, but are they really prepared for you not to go to college at all if they don’t get their way on a medical-related field?

3. I don’t understand why you can’t take the full-ride to the program you said is in line with your interests whether your parents consent or not?

[parentologist]

This is why I keep on saying that the only option is Kean, where she has a full tuition scholarship within commuting distance (far, but on the train). Any other option, her parents can pull the financial rug out from under her, when she doesn’t do exactly what they say, study what they tell her to, become what they tell her to. Rutgers is not an option - they could stop paying for college, and what will she do then?

[ucbalumnus]

@parentologist

This is why I keep on saying that the only option is Kean, where she has a full tuition scholarship within commuting distance (far, but on the train). Any other option, her parents can pull the financial rug out from under her, when she doesn’t do exactly what they say, study what they tell her to, become what they tell her to.

They could still pull the financial rug out from under her at Kean, because the OP will still be depending on the parents to subsidize living and commuting costs.

The only college way really to escape from overly-controlling parents is to get a full ride merit scholarship with no dependence on need-based financial aid forms.

[DadTwoGirls]

@JayLab

I have no interest, but they seem to think that if you are “smart” in high school you can be successful in any career. Interest, or happiness, apparently doesn’t factor into it.

I have been watching for years while one daughter continues on the path towards becoming a veterinarian. While the path towards being a doctor for large animals is not quite the same as being a doctor for humans, there are a lot of similarities. Of all of the skills that are important to take this path (and it takes a rather wide variety of skills to succeed on this path), from what I have seen it appears that an absolute determination to do it is probably the #1 most important skill that a student could have. I do not believe that a person can become a doctor (whether for humans or for animals) without a very strong desire to do it.

@JayLab

I’d like to be a foreign analyst, a freelance preferably. Of course I realize this is a very challenging and unpredictable job, but shouldn’t I be weighing the risks and making the decisions, because it’s cough cough MY life? I get that they’re worried about my future, but they won’t even take my points into consideration. Maybe I haven’t been clear enough to them about what I want. I won’t put too much emphasis on journalism, but I’ll try to make a case for Kean.

Journalism is a tough path and a tough thing to sell to parents.

On the other hand, many, many students when they graduate university still do not know what path they are going to take in life. Many graduates try a bit of this and a bit of that. Over time we figure out what we want to do. When I graduated university (with a degree in mathematics) I had no idea what I wanted to do with my career, but I eventually found the correct career and it worked out very well.

When there is some uncertainty of your path going forward, and when you are trying out various options, being debt free can be very helpful. Avoiding student loan debt can make it possible to pursue any one of a long list of initially low paying but interesting options, and sometimes these initially low paying options become better paying as you gain expertise in some particular area.

@JayLab

But I can do math, especially if it’s data science or statistics, which is helpful in journalism careers.

Computers plus the Internet allow companies to collect an enormous amount of information. Getting some value out of all of this information is tough. Data science and statistics is a useful set of skills to have, or is at least something to consider as a possibility.

The fact that as a high school senior you do not know what you want to do with your career does not concern me at all. This is called “normal”. Most students at this point in their lives either do not know what they want to do, or they do know but are going to change their minds at least once and more likely multiple times before they settle on a major. Then even after settling on a major it is still very common for people to change their career focus at some point.

[JayLab]

I think we’ve all gotten quite carried away… I know that as long as I’m very firm, my parents can’t just make me do pharmacy at Rutgers. Otherwise they would have made me do it. I am just trying to get them to understand my perspective. I do think Kean is my best bet, and there are several options available:

• Tell them I’ll double major, Communications and something they want me to do (I could suggest Education, Public Admin, or Public Health). I’ll outline a plan for the future that they’d like → for example, I could eventually apply for TFA, get experience, take a health track, etc.
• Just tell them I’ll do something they’d like at Kean (without mentioning the double major), same options as before, and later add Communications or another major of my choice
• Give them an ultimatum, Kean or a college of my choice (personally I like Pace University and the commute isn’t that far via NY Penn Station)–> this might generate friction though, and we were mostly talking about major, not school

[JayLab]

@DadTwoGirls

The fact that as a high school senior you do not know what you want to do with your career does not concern me at all. This is called “normal”. Most students at this point in their lives either do not know what they want to do, or they do know but are going to change their minds at least once and more likely multiple times before they settle on a major. Then even after settling on a major it is still very common for people to change their career focus at some point.

I mean, I do know what I want to do, I have known for a long time now. I’m only struggling right now because I’m trying to compromise with my parents- not because I’m indecisive. But yes, I know there is still plenty of time. So Kean it is then?

[cy7878]

I can tell you as a parent, I can care less what my kids do for a career. My own goal is to have them off my payroll by the time they reach 25. Whatever their chosen path, they just need to be able to find gainful employment and make their own money.

Having said that, have you demonstrated to your parents you CAN make a living doing what you plan? Communication and Journalism sounds great, but have you done anything in these field or even have a solid exposure?

There is a reason Medicine, Law, Engineering, and Accounting are so valued in many cultures, because they are actually income driven fields in most cases. History, Arts, Music, Languages, and many fields of social sciences do not have the same money making prospects, so most conservative parents prefer their children not going to them.

I teach a biology class in my spare time at a local CC. It’s a pre-req for Nursing School and I can tell you I have had many students who have earned a 4-year degree from reputable universities, only to realize their degree did not translate into jobs and now they come back to community college to basically start over.

You may do great in Communication or Journalism, but do look into more specifics. My SIL graduated as a Communication Major and now works as an office secretary, lives w her mom and still on their payroll. Just saying.

Yes Pharmacy is boring. Definitely not what I would do or have my children pursue. For context, that was my first goal when I got to college, then I discovered there is no joy in counting pills at a retail pharmacy, even if it does pay over $100,000 a year, it was just not for me.

Bottom line, you can “major” in anything your parents want AND still take whatever classes that YOU WANT. The two things are not exclusive.

[aquapt]

CC threads can really take on a life of their own sometimes, and you have enough on your plate without trying to disabuse every poster of their misconceptions about your life, family, goals, etc. So just try to harvest what’s useful and overlook what isn’t.

You sound like you’re getting what you want to say pretty well dialed in.

Between your first two bullet points, it sounds as if you’re uncomfortable leaving out all mention of communications, because it feels too inauthentic and/or feels like you’re caving completely on what’s most important to you. I would therefore suggest a middle ground. Kean has a minor in communications - how about saying that you still want exposure to this field, but you’ll do it as a minor, and choose a major that they’re comfortable with. There is literally nothing stopping you from later upgrading a minor to a double major, but this proposal should be easier for them to swallow and thus will be less likely to derail the negotiation.

Re: Pace, I assume that if you considered this school, you’d also need to negotiate about your major - what would your proposed major be here? Looks like your 33K merit leaves about 18K/year in tuition & fees, that you wouldn’t have at Kean - how much of a barrier is this?

And, how important is it to you to have a path to independence while you’re still in college, either as an actual possibility, or just as leverage in terms of the power dynamic with your parents? At Kean, it would be challenging but potentially possible, to move in with friends from school and work enough to pay your living expenses, while continuing school on your scholarship. At Pace, there’s no earthly way you could support yourself in NYC and pay 18K/year tuition while in school. Does this distinction matter, or is possible independence really a non-issue?

[JayLab]

@cy7878

Having said that, have you demonstrated to your parents you CAN make a living doing what you plan? Communication and Journalism sounds great, but have you done anything in these field or even have a solid exposure?

Not really… I am editor in chief of my school newspaper, but I wasn’t able to do any internships.

@aquapt

Between your first two bullet points, it sounds as if you’re uncomfortable leaving out all mention of communications, because it feels too inauthentic and/or feels like you’re caving completely on what’s most important to you. I would therefore suggest a middle ground. Kean has a minor in communications - how about saying that you still want exposure to this field, but you’ll do it as a minor, and choose a major that they’re comfortable with. There is literally nothing stopping you from later upgrading a minor to a double major, but this proposal should be easier for them to swallow and thus will be less likely to derail the negotiation.

That sounds like a good idea! I’ll try that.

@aquapt

And, how important is it to you to have a path to independence while you’re still in college, either as an actual possibility, or just as leverage in terms of the power dynamic with your parents? At Kean, it would be challenging but potentially possible, to move in with friends from school and work enough to pay your living expenses, while continuing school on your scholarship. At Pace, there’s no earthly way you could support yourself in NYC and pay 18K/year tuition while in school. Does this distinction matter, or is possible independence really a non-issue?

It’s kind of a bygone dream to study in NYC for now, so I was hoping to just go for grad school or work. I was just trying to give them an alternative that makes Kean look more acceptable.

[cy7878]

@JayLab

Not really… I am editor in chief of my school newspaper, but I wasn’t able to do any internships.

Well, this counts. Again, what you “major” will not preclude you from taking other classes. I get you don’t want anything to do with Health Sciences, but get to a school, take whatever classes you “need” as well as “want” and don’t look back.

[GirlMom01]

@JayLab good luck with your parents. Kean seems like your best bet to balance what you want with what your parents want for you. Start your classes working hard to get good grades, then start looking for jobs to start saving for your future. Please keep as posted, and let us know when you’ve made your final decision.

[MYOS1634]

Pace isn’t that good so no regrets - Drew would connect you to NYC (for the workshops and internships, it’s their specialty) and TCNJ is topnotch (the academic rigor of Rutgers, without the sports or engineering), so you could always ask whether they’d let you dorm there. If the answer is no (as it sounds it’ll be), then it’ll show you can concede and it should please them.

Kean would give them the least control over you due to the full tuition. The thread is a bit long, so, do you have a full tuition scholarship anywhere else?

You can also evaluate whether you may ask about the Kean honors living learning community.
https://www.kean.edu/reslife/housing-information/living-learning-communities

(Btw, if push comes to shove, I see that Mercer county CC has housing through Rider, for relatively low rates, ie., $4,350 a semester for housing and you can either cook for yourself or take a meal plan. Since you must have NjStars, it’d be a hatch in case of emergency. You can always take your 5.5k freshman loan and bank it since you don’t need it, keep it in case you need the money.)

Major: as long as they’re clear you will not (and cannot) become a health care professional, you can list any major or even say you’re undecided of they’ll accept that - “undecided” means you’reallowed to pivot to most anything.

It is not difficult to add a minor or double major, especially if you have some AP or DE credit.
Herr are all the 4 year plans
https://www.kean.edu/offices/registrars-office/curriculum-sheets

1st semester
ALL Kean students take Kean transitions (how the library works, how to take notes, etc. - yes, easy, but take the easy A )
ALL Kean students take College composition, which for you would be English 1620 (Honors English)
1 math class
2 gen eds of your choice (aka, for your parents: “recommended or scheduled by your adviser”)

Have you taken AP Stats?

You can see credits for AP tests& scores
https://www.kean.edu/academics/general-studies/advanced-placement-ap-credits
AP credits mean more flexibility to take classes of interest under the guise of gen eds as well as more space for advanced classes as a jr/sr. Your parents would not need to know this.
Just that you registered for ACCUPLACER and were placed in Y or X classes (you can show the results after the test). It’s to your advantage to score as high as you can.
https://www.kean.edu/placement-testing/placement-testing-faqs

[JayLab]

Thank you for the tips and the links! I’ll have to enroll at kean first, then I will take all that into consideration.

[MYOS1634]

Yes, you can just bookmark the post and return to it later.

[Lindagaf]

You and your parents must also be aware that you don’t have to choose your major until sophomore year of college. There is no need to actually plan your entire life the day before you commit. If your goal is simply to make them feel you’re open to compromise, say what you feel they want to hear. Then take the classes you’re interested in.

[Sammacd]

I think in pharmacy you do.

[Lindagaf]

Except the student has no intention of studying pharmacy.

[roycroftmom]

As long as the student understands she won’t be able to support herself in journalism and will need another job to do so ( and not expect aid from her parents after graduation), her plan should work.
One doesn’t actually need a college degree to be a journalist. Sadly, the industry has imploded and even the nationally recognized, Pulitzer prize winners have been subject to layoffs. So I wouldn’t encourage anyone to spend money to study the field as a career, but if you have another source of income, it can be a worthwhile hobby.

[Tigerle]

OP, I am going to wade right in where others fear to tread, or maybe they are really not aware what is going on here. Feel free to correct me wherever you KNOW that I am wrong. (Not think…or feel…KNOW from experience, or from siblings’ experiences - I will make clear why).

The PPs in this and in the original thread are being completely irresponsible in their advice to you. The problem is, you haven’t really spelled out what they’d need to know, and maybe the cultural chasm is too big for them to really understand.

The crucial information is mostly in your original post: your parents are Middle Eastern Muslim, and they are, as you put it in various posts, “old school” or “cultural”, do not care about your wants or needs, will absolutely not allow you to dorm and want complete control of your life, down to your academic schedule, choice of major and choice of profession, regardless of your age or educational level.

PPs have advised you, in various posts, to “just tell them”, lie, cheat, refuse to provide passwords, stay over with friends in the dorms as much as possible, choose a full ride option and do whatever you like, set ultimatums, cut ties with your family completely.

They have insisted that “this is no way to live”, that your parents will have no control of you if they don’t pay tuition, that they will give in because they love you and want the best for you, if you only tell them.

They have asked, sarcastically, whether your parents want you to continue to be entirely dependent on them, whether you will “let them” continue their control until you marry a man of their choosing, whether you think they will just stop paying tuition and forcing you to drop out or throw you out of the house if you decide to go to a free ride school of your choosing, choose your own major and choose to dorm there.

Yes, this is the way devout Muslim parents think must be their daughters’ way to live, yes, they have ways to exert control beyond legal and financial means, they obviously put their own need to control you over their love for you because they do think that that is what’s best according to their culture, they do want you to be dependent on them mentally and financially until you do marry a man they approve of and if you’re lucky, they will “just” force you to drop out or “just” throw you out of the house and cut ties with you, and force your siblings and other relatives to cut ties with you, too.

Muslim daughters who have rebelled have had worse things happening to them for rebelling less. Doing all those things those posters are suggesting, the OP may be literally NOT SAFE.

None of you know how far her parents would go. The OP probably doesn’t either. The clue is in her saying, over and over, “I cannot do that”. Probably even her parents don’t know!

If the OP were sure her parents would not exert their control in dangerous ways, would give in, grin and bear it, she’d have committed to Kean to major in journalism long ago.

OP, the most responsible advice people have given you is the one about compromise. They will pay tuition and let you get educated as long as you commute, coming home every evening as soon as you can, and they will compromise on the health related majors as long as you do something they think you can get a good job I; after college (and it matters what they think, not what posters here think).

Try to rule out the conditions that you feel are soul destroying (for you, that’s apparently the pharmacy program, I’d personally try to cut down the commute to under an hour if possible) and compromise on what they can’t compromise on. I’d probably pick the education major because it should be easy to double in major in something else you actually are good at and enjoy, and they cannot really stop you from being a journalist from the get go. In fact, you are one already - at least on the school newspaper. There is a huge market right now in understanding the Middle East. Use that. You can use pseudonyms. But don’t lie or cheat in ways your parents can find out about. Slowly, slowly work on your independence, chip away at their control as you grow.

But most importantly, be safe.